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Any chance of expanding the skill list for Day Job rolls in future revisions?
Back in 3.5 you could substitute Tumble for Perform: "You can also tumble to entertain an audience (as though using the Perform skill) [d20SRD.org]. I notice the Pathfinder description of Acrobatics no longer includes this line, so probably not.
How about Sleight of Hand, though? Basically pick pocketing. Seems like a fair revenue stream for a rogue. Any chance?
Any chance ...
Nope.
Do it during the game, then use the funds for consumables and the like, or as a hedge on not getting the maximum gold rewards.
I think that's the official rationale.
Doing BOTH would be seen as unfair, I think.
There's no end-around here. There are no rules in Pathfinder Society for picking pockets to make money. You can't gain any gold during a scenario that isn't specifically spelled out in the scenario or part of the day job roll. If I allowed PCs to do this, then anyone with pick pockets could pick to their heart's content and end up with more gold than the max gold cap for the scenario (something I only allow the day job roll to do). Even if you picked pockets during the scenario and spent it on consumables that you consumed during the scenario, you'd still technically be exceeding the max gold cap as you're using resources you wouldn't normally have access to. Finally, how does one adjudicate pockets being picked? Would one GM allow you to get, say, 5 gold per scenario, and would another perhaps let you get as much as you want? It's not something I want to codify and therefor not something we currently allow for in Society play.
It seems like you should spell that out for Sleight of Hand then,
because the skill as written would suggest that you could rip off a given NPC (presumably, one you wouldn't kill normally) - NPCs without gear lists may technically not have anything to steal within scope of PFS, but if non-intended-to-be-killed-and-looted NPCs DO have any gear at all, it would seem a valid target of Sleight of Hand. If this usage of the skill IS completely banned, it should be spelled out so people don't take the skill expecting it to work like normal (in-game, not out-of-game day job stuff).
Presumably, you could consider what I typed above as "spelling it out." Also, it's spelled out in another way, namely that you cannot exceed max gold unless you exceed it with a day job roll--and sleight of hand isn't on the day job roll list.
I shall clarify this in a future update. For now, what I typed above is the clarification and I'll link to it from the 2.1 FAQ thread.
sleight of hand can be used for basic parlor tricks as well as picking pockets.
acrobatics can be used for break dancing or various carnival stuff.
i beleive they should have the ability to be used as day jobs. but either one or the other per day, not both.
maybe your "rogue" is a carnie and she walks tightropes or juggles greatswords, maybe shes a stage magician who specializes in card tricks, maybe she is a break dancer. the first and last key off acrobatics, the middle 2 off of sleight of hand. bards are the only class that bothers to perform, no one seriously takes craft or profession. except when a houserule gives a free rank in one of those skills.
Director of Brand Strategy
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sleight of hand can be used for basic parlor tricks as well as picking pockets.
acrobatics can be used for break dancing or various carnival stuff.
Correct. In a social encounter as part of a scenario either of these skills may be used in this manner.
i beleive they should have the ability to be used as day jobs. but either one or the other per day, not both.
One can only ever make one day job roll per scenario anyway, so regardless of what skill one uses for the check, you can never use two skills.
If this were opened up, however, would it not also open up other skills for use as day jobs? Can I roll diplomacy instead of Profession (negotiator), or Knowledge (Engineering) instead of Profession (Mason)? Why not just a straight Strength check to see if I can win an arm-wrestling contest?
Dayjob rolls are a mechanic unique to PFS outside from the core PFRPG rules, abstracted the same way that character wealth is, designed to reward PCs who spend skill points in non-combat areas.
bards are the only class that bothers to perform, no one seriously takes craft or profession. except when a houserule gives a free rank in one of those skills.
Or someone who wants to add to their PC's background or have a chance to earn some extra wealth above and beyond the max per scenario. The rule is clearly stated in the Guide to PFS; if you want to roll a day job, put at least one rank in a Craft, Perform, or Profession skill. If you don't do that, then you forego that opportunity. Luckily, you get the chance to put ranks in any of them every time you level up.
Josh has said a number of times that the mechanics for day jobs are not likely to change. Asking for clarification on them is one thing, but continuing to try to find loopholes in the system is counterproductive.
Dayjob rolls are a mechanic unique to PFS outside from the core PFRPG rules, abstracted the same way that character wealth is, designed to reward PCs who spend skill points in non-combat areas.
This.
I have no interest in changing the Day Job system further. I appreciate that folks disagree, but sometimes as the campaign coordinator I just have to say, "It is this way." and leave it at that.
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bards are the only class that bothers to perform, no one seriously takes craft or profession. except when a houserule gives a free rank in one of those skills.
I politely disagree. Every character I make has one or the other. They act as knowledge skills in a variety of situations. A profession: taxidermy character, for example, knows about animals, mummifying/preserving dead things, and identifying wounds from hunting weapons.
while they may not be able to make a straight knowledge check for any of these things, a good DM will hear your side, and possibly just adjust the DC of a knowledge roll for these things, depending on how likely your character would have come across this check in their profession
bards are the only class that bothers to perform, no one seriously takes craft or profession. except when a houserule gives a free rank in one of those skills.I politely disagree. Every character I make has one or the other. They act as knowledge skills in a variety of situations. A profession: taxidermy character, for example, knows about animals, mummifying/preserving dead things, and identifying wounds from hunting weapons.
while they may not be able to make a straight knowledge check for any of these things, a good DM will hear your side, and possibly just adjust the DC of a knowledge roll for these things, depending on how likely your character would have come across this check in their profession
For Perform,
Any Cha-Based class can take 1 trait to get it either class or get a +5 to make money. This is far more beneficial than taking say a craft or profession if your Cha is 18 and your Int and Wis is 10.
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Any chance of expanding the skill list for Day Job rolls in future revisions?
Back in 3.5 you could substitute Tumble for Perform: "You can also tumble to entertain an audience (as though using the Perform skill) [d20SRD.org]. I notice the Pathfinder description of Acrobatics no longer includes this line, so probably not.How about Sleight of Hand, though? Basically pick pocketing. Seems like a fair revenue stream for a rogue. Any chance?
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Excerpt From Pathfinder Rule Book Page 105.
You can also use Sleight of Hand to entertain an audience as though you were using the Perform skill. In such a case, your “act” encompasses elements of legerdemain, juggling, and the like.Excerpt From Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play Page 21
If your character has any ranks in a Craft, Perform, or Profession skill, he may choose one of those skills and make one roll at the end of every scenario.Summation
Only those who have actual ranks in Craft, Perform, or Profession skills while playing in the Society may make day job rolls regardless of any other notation that might indicate otherwise. No interpretation needed. Is this correct?
Correct!
Yeah, ithink it is an unfortunate ruling, but Jason has spoken quite clearly on this, so no point in debating.
>facepalm<
Yeah, ithink it is an unfortunate ruling, but Jason has spoken quite clearly on this, so no point in debating.>facepalm<
Isn't your full name Joshua Jason Jonah Jameson Frost?
John Jacob Jingleheimer FrostIsn't your full name Joshua Jason Jonah Jameson Frost?Yeah, ithink it is an unfortunate ruling, but Jason has spoken quite clearly on this, so no point in debating.>facepalm<
Hey... His name is my name too...
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Dayjob rolls are a mechanic unique to PFS outside from the core PFRPG rules, abstracted the same way that character wealth is, designed to reward PCs who spend skill points in non-combat areas.This.
I have no interest in changing the Day Job system further. I appreciate that folks disagree, but sometimes as the campaign coordinator I just have to say, "It is this way." and leave it at that.
IMHO, but Sleight of Hand *IS* a non-combat skill. In all of year zero's mods, i saw ONE use for sleight of hand within a mod. and it has no tactical value within a combat. Its used to pick pockets and conceal weapons. It has as much use for a fighter as perform or profession, except that its only a class skill for the entertainers ( bards ) and charlatans ( rogues ).
Classically ( ie. back in the days of Living Greyhawk ) Sleight of Hand was a skill that could be used to earn some extra gold. either explaining it as picking pockets or as entertaining the masses for some change. Since it says in the skill description of Slight of Hand in the Pathfinder rulebook that it can be used in place of Perform for checks
You can also use Sleight of Hand to entertain an audience as though you were using the Perform skill. In such a case, your “act” encompasses elements of legerdemain, juggling, and the like.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/sleightOfHand.html#sleight-of-han d
its not like players are clamoring to allow every skill from Acrobatics to Handle Animal to be used as a day job. But the rulebook that your company publishes left yourselves open to this sort of misinterpretation. I understand the PFS game is extrapolated from those rules, I just don't see why someone CAN'T use the skills they do have creatively to make a small stipend of money through dayjob rolls. The difference between Perform (juggling) and Sleigh of Hand is negligible in the end. ( likewise for Profession (dog trainer) and Handle Animal ). I'll agree Acrobatics crosses the line as it has a combat use. Society play already takes away the utility of having some skills like Craft (alchemy) and Handle Animal, and now Sleight of Hand.
just listing my objections. i understand a decision has already been made, but we're allowed to post our thoughts on the rulings. otherwise you'd never know people still objected to them.
But the rulebook that your company publishes left yourselves open to this sort of misinterpretation.
You are correct and that's why I detailed exactly what skills can be used for the Day Job roll and what can't. I appreciate your argument--it's well thought out and well said.
I have no intention to change the way the Day Job roll functions. It's worked this way for 18 months and seems to function just fine the way it is. :-)
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I know this thread is sort of old, but here's how I do it. My PFS character is a Taldan rogue with ranks in Perform (Dance). In character, she is not dancing on a street corner, but rather she is gaining money by going to balls, getting nobles to buy her gifts, yoinking small trinkets off of them when she is not on Pathfinder adventures. You can justify your Craft/Perform/Profession however you like for flavor purposes, but mechanically, you can only gain gold by rolling one of those three. Period.
