I had a thought today. Well, I've had this thought before but it came up again today, and I decided to see what other people thought of it.
Currently, when making monster knowledge checks, my group requires the player to declare which knowledge they want to use (arcana, religion, whatever) and then make a roll. If their roll is high enough and was made using the right knowledge skill you get your information. If it was too low or you used the wrong knowledge, you get nothing. You can try again with another knowledge skill, if you want, but you have no idea if it's going to help or not.
So my thought is this: one roll. You simply declare "I want to figure out what this thing is. I rolled a 14." Then the DM asks what the relevant knowledge bonus is and determines if I know what I'm looking at. If it's, say, an aberration and I didn't bother with ranks in dungeoneering, I get nothing. But if it's an outsider and I have ranks in planes, then I might.
My reasoning is that my character is looking at the beastie in front of him and cycling though his reservoir of knowledge to identify it. He's not running a search through a series of books, with certain pictures in the "nature" book and certain others in the "religion" book.
Other uses of the knowledge skills would remain the same. Just monster identification checks would change.
Is this reasonable? Unreasonable? Already a rule that we have overlooked?
Creative Director
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So my thought is this: one roll. You simply declare "I want to figure out what this thing is. I rolled a 14." Then the DM asks what the relevant knowledge bonus is and determines if I know what I'm looking at. If it's, say, an aberration and I didn't bother with ranks in dungeoneering, I get nothing. But if it's an outsider and I have ranks in planes, then I might.
This is how I've always run it, and it works pretty well. Although usually I simply cut to the chase and ask the player to roll whatever the actually required Knowledge check is. This does mean that the player gets a clue as to what the monster's type is... if that's a problem (as in the case of an undead masquerading as a living creature, for example), I'll be more cagey about it, maybe asking them to make the roll and then looking at their sheet or asking them for ALL their knowledge ranks.
Knowledge skills represent what the character knows. The skill description indicates that making such a check is "no action." Therefore, the character could make a check in each of his Knowledge skills to try to identify the monster in front of him.
In light of all this, I think that your proposal is reasonable.
Instead of asking your players for their modifier in the relevant knowledge skill, you can also ask them to make a check in that particular skill. That would free you the time of making the maths :-)
EDIT: Seems that James answered before I finished writing this, and with a more complete solution about monsters hiding their type... thanks.
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In my group, the DM always has a sheet with various important stats of the PC's (Armor Class, perception skill, knowledge skills, sense motive skill, languages spoken, etc). And he makes all the appropriate rolls behind the screen, so the players don't get any spoilers about what's going on, that their characters wouldn't know about (ex: whether the character doesn't think the merchant is lying because he's telling the truth, or because he rolled a 1 on his Sense Motive check).
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This is how I've always run it, and it works pretty well. Although usually I simply cut to the chase and ask the player to roll whatever the actually required Knowledge check is. This does mean that the player gets a clue as to what the monster's type is... if that's a problem (as in the case of an undead masquerading as a living creature, for example), I'll be more cagey about it, maybe asking them to make the roll and then looking at their sheet or asking them for ALL their knowledge ranks.
In our game, I often call on my players to make a "what the hell is that thing" roll, and they read out the options ("I got an Arcana 24, Dungeoneering 22, and a Planes 20").
I always let them make Knowledge checks. Not a specific Knowledge (Kama Sutra Combat Stances) or anything, just one roll - and give me the Knowledge results of all Knowledge categories they have, with that roll.
So you have Knowledge (arcana) +20, Knowledge (the planes +20), Knowledge (religion) +20, Knowledge (history) +26, Knowledge (nature) +10 and roll 13, you have arcana, planes, religion 33, history 39, nature 23.
I ignore everything except the relevant stuff and dispense knowledge according to their result.
Yeah, we roll Knowledge (Relevant) checks at our table. Or, alternately, ask "Hey, I've got Knowledge: Engineering, does that giant walking castle have a weak point? <roll>".
Yeah, we roll Knowledge (Relevant) checks at our table. Or, alternately, ask "Hey, I've got Knowledge: Engineering, does that giant walking castle have a weak point? <roll>".
Happens a lot, eh? Can't think of any other reason people would have Knowledge (engineering) ;-P
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Most of the gamers I know know the MM quite well so it's more like:
PC: I roll my Knowledge: Planes to see if I know the marilith has True Seeing *rolls*
DM: Yeah, your roll is as donkey-lame as the Chaotic alignment; you have no idea that Mari has True Seeing -- you do know that she has typical Tanarri stuff -- oh yeah, and you know that she can evoke a wall of magically crackling swords; it's bad ass. You should get your 3d6 for a new PC ready.
PC: Okay, by the way, Ray, we just wanted to remind you how much we love you and will buy you tickets to the the next Bob Dylan concert if you don't kill our PCs. We're so lame and you're so awesome.
DM: You guys are so lame. It's lucky for you I'm so awesome... *rolls under the table* Oh, what's this, Mari rolled a 1 on her Initiative. Just a reminder, that Dylan concert is in 4 weeks; make sure you get me good seats.
Or, you know, something like that.
Or, often it's like
PC: Crap, does anyone remember if a Howler is a magical beast or an outsider? I've got 4 more ranks in Planes -- please let it be an outsider!