Here's the sad tale:
1. The party was set with a sorcerer or wizard, cleric, ranger, and 2 rogues.
2. Show up for our 1st game session and find out the ranger is the ONLY person who created the class they said they were going to be.
- The sorcerer was now a barbarian
- The cleric was now a wizard
- 1 rogue was now a paladin
- The remaining rogue was now a fighter (me!)
Now our party has no healing (until the paladin levels), and no rogue
I've deduced that I will need to be the rogue as well as being the fighter.
Here's my stats:
ELF FIGHTER 1
Str = 17 (+3)
Dex = 17 (+3)
Con = 14 (+2)
Int = 15 (+2)
Wis = 7 (-2)
Cha = 7 (-2)
Feat - Weapon Focus
Bonus - Dodge
AC - 20 (10 + breastplate 6 + dex 3 + dodge 1)
Weapon - Elven Curved Blade
Concept:
I arranged the stats to allow myself to go two weapon fighting (TWF) if later I wanted to. My goal was to hit AC=20 at 1st lvl. I wanted to up my int to take advantage of the race bonus and give me more skill points and languages.
NOW THE ASKING FOR HELP:
1. My higher Dex is what nominated me to be the party's rogue. At what levels should I take the rogue class?
2. Should I switch to TWF to take more advantage of sneak attack (SA) damage?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
NOW THE ASKING FOR HELP:
1. My higher Dex is what nominated me to be the party's rogue. At what levels should I take the rogue class?
It really depends on how mutch rogue you want to be and what skills you want from the rogue.
You should always aim for an odd number of rogue levels to geth the most out of the sneak attack, but try to avoid taking +0 BAB levels for no reason.
If you only need disable device and perception you should do fine with only 3 rogue levels. On the other hand you can do just as well as a single classed fighter. Take skill focus (disable device) and forget about the rogue.
For an effective fighter/rogue you should not take more than 15 rogue levels.
2. Should I switch to TWF to take more advantage of sneak attack (SA) damage?Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
If you go rogue (lol) and take more than 4 rogue levels I definitely suggest you opt for the TWF chain.
If not don't bother. You will be just as effective with two-handed style and will have more feats to spare.
I pictured my character as a fighter 1st. Just dabbling in rogue for SA, and skills. Obviously I'm talking about the dex based rogue skills. (i.e. sleight of hand, acrobatics, disable device, ect.) My perception is hurting already due to low wis.
I guess perhaps I should ask this:
Is it O.K. to only take 1 level of rogue?
How many rogue levels would be best for the character?
I pictured my character as a fighter 1st. Just dabbling in rogue for SA, and skills. Obviously I'm talking about the dex based rogue skills. (i.e. sleight of hand, acrobatics, disable device, ect.) My perception is hurting already due to low wis.
I guess perhaps I should ask this:
Is it O.K. to only take 1 level of rogue?
How many rogue levels would be best for the character?
You can easily cover sleight of hand, acrobatics, disable device, and perception perception with your fighter skills and Int. mod. So it is all about how good do you want to be at other things?
If I wanted to reamin mainly a fighter I would probably take 3 rogue levels all in all using rogue talents to support the fighter aspect. I would also leave the TWF chain be.
Again rogues are one of my favorite classes (along with fighters, wizards, and clerics :D) and I have had a really memorable fighter rogue with a 15/5 rogue/fighter ratio - and TWF.
Well ... at only 1 level you get the skills you mentioned as class skills and you get 1d6 sneak attack.
However, at level 4 you will have:
Sneak attack +2d6
Trapfinding
Trap sense +1
Evasion
Uncanny dodge
2x Rogue talents
So if you only want to dabble in the rogue area, I'd personally go for level 4.
Again this is personal, and I'm not an export here. Perhaps the more experienced players/GMs have another idea about this.
I'd agree - 4th level is worth taking. You get full BAB, d8 instead of d10, and a rogue talent (which could be a combat feat if you haven't taken one yet, or weapon finesse since your curve blade is finessable). You only lose out on Armor/Weapon training progression really. Also your trapfinding bonus goes to +2.
You're right that you don't have to take Perception, since the ranger or another could *locate* the magic traps that only you can disarm.
If you're really considering two-weapon fighting (and I don't think you need to over-consider it), then taking weapon focus now isn't necessarily the best option.
When to take the levels? I'd go like this
1F
1F/1R
2F/1R
3F/1R - Move at full speed in medium armor (and drop that armor check down on your skills), thus can use acrobatics to tumble.
4F/1R
4F/2R - Enjoy the rogue talent, perhaps simply take Combat Trick to get an extra bonus feat, and re-up some of your skills that you didn't have points for.
5F/2R - Weapon training - you should have your eventual style figured out by now.
6F/2R - Feat and saving throws
6F/3R
6F/4R
7F/4R -> 16F/4R
If you find mithril full plate by chance (or a really good heavy armor), then taking 7th level of fighter is useful earlier. Also, this doesn't give you a bonus feat when you reach +6 BAB. If you're desperate for Vital strike (nice with Curve Blade) or Improved two-weapon fighting then you might want to arrange that.
Edit:
Skills: You get 4 + favored class per level on your fighter levels.
1st level: Climb, Know(dungeoneering), Survival, Swim. (+ favored if not hp)
2nd level: 2 in Acrobatics (can't tumble yet due to medium armor), Disable Device, Stealth; 1 in UMD/Climb/Swim/Kn(Dung)/other.
3rd-5th level: 1 in Acrobatics, Disable, Stealth, and Kn(Dung).
6th: 1 in Acrobatics, Disable, Stealth, and Kn(Dung), 3 in Climb/Swim/UMD/other.
we have a 6th level ranger in our CoT AP. She's and elf with a 20 dex. She's our rouge with no rogue levels.
She has a high int as well as a high dex and we find she does just as well as a rogue as the old 3.5 base rogue.
She doesn't have sneak attack but really doesn't need it she drops everything in combat anyway. She cant find magical traps, but wih detect magic being a 0 level spell our sorceror or wizard or bard for that matter can check for things like that just as fast.
I dont think we loose much without a rogue.
As for no healing. We started CoT with no healing. (we did not have a bard with the group at first)
A few of the early battles we actually had to take weeks between things to heal naturally and, we found wands and potions before 3rd level and during low 1st and 2nd level there was always the option of NPC healers.
Was it ideal? No. But with that pally by 5th or 6th you'll have plenty of healing, and I got a weird question. But if you already have a pally and a Barbarian already, why does your character need to be a fighter?
Thanks all.
My character doesn't NEED to be a fighter, these characters are what our party showed up with for the 1st session. It was a huge surprise when I found out we went from no melee classes to 3.
At this point, I look at the fact that our campaign has already started. Integrity-wise, I'm not comfortable showing up to the next session with a completly different character. Also, it will make for more interesting play with what we have. I am just looking for suggestions on how to level my character to best assist the party.
Grandfather - I don't usderstand, "leave the TWF chain be" are you suggesting I DO go the TWF route or DO NOT go TWF?
Majuba - Thank you. The level progression you provided is extremely helpful.
Can someone explain any possible benefits to NOT going TWF? My original thought was to be a crit fisherman with the elven curved blade, but to take the most advantage of the sneak attacks, it makes more sense to me to go TWF.
Can someone explain any possible benefits to NOT going TWF? My original thought was to be a crit fisherman with the elven curved blade, but to take the most advantage of the sneak attacks, it makes more sense to me to go TWF.
Rogues can take quite high advantage of TWF to stack up on sneak attacks, in the right circumstances.
But as mainly a Fighter, the advantage is not as strong, especially with access to the really big weapons (like the curve blade). You do have more BAB and feats to spare than a Rogue, but you also will have less actual incentive to ensure you get into position for sneak attacks. I have a nearly-full Rogue in my Second Darkness campaign that *does* TWF, and he still isn't highly motivated to get sneak attack, because his strength score happens to be immense and he does a good chunk of damage just hitting.
For instance, take an example combat, with Curve Blade vs. twin shortswords, at around 5th level (4/1 or 3/2):
Round 1: Advance and attack
Curve: 1d10 (18-20), possibility to charge for +2, and 150% STR = 5.5
Shortsword: Acrobatics to flank, and if you have enough movement 1d6 (19-20), only 100% Str = 3.5
Round 2: Full out attack
Curve: 1d10, at -2 for power attack (-2/+6) = 11.5
Shortswords: 2d6 + 2d6 sneak attack, at -2 for TWF = 14
The advantage to not TWF'ing is consistency of attack and damage (though multiple attacks adds consistency as well). Damage really isn't that different with only 1 or 2 dice of sneak attack. Strength damage mostly balances out.
Just do what sounds like fun to you :)
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Sorry to derail this, but I also need a little help with my Elf Fighter/Rogue. He is currently level 6 with 3 Fighter levels / 3 Rogue levels. I am planning to go 13 Rogue/ 3 Fighter more or less.
My feats up to level 6 are.
Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot.
I was planning on doing this.
7 Leadership, Manyshot
8
9 Power Attack
10
11 Improved TWF
He uses a C Longbow for ranged, and TWF with a Curve blade and armor spikes.
Do the feats look ok ?
Grandfather - I don't usderstand, "leave the TWF chain be" are you suggesting I DO go the TWF route or DO NOT go TWF?
Sorry if I was unclear.
If you only intend to take 5 or less rogue levels I would not bothar learning the TWF chain.
Sorry to derail this, but I also need a little help with my Elf Fighter/Rogue...
Do the feats look ok ?
Strength and Dexterity scores? I'd stack on Improved TWF before Power Attack probably, depending on how high your attack bonus is (from dex). Double slice is another strong option.
You might think about picking up a load of daggers/handaxes/throwing hammers... you can two-weapon fight *and* rapid shot you know.
I like the weapons you have though, very nice combo of options.