There are a great amount of posts that are constantly about why many people believe the Monk class "sucks", this thread is not to be used for that purpose. I myself rather like the look of the PF Monk class on paper. (Even if there is always room for improvement) However, that being said, I've not yet had a chance to seriously play one in game. Instead of commenting on the "bad", I'd like to take a look at what the class CAN do.
One of the things the Monk class has always been lauded for has been its maneuverability. In 3.5 this was mostly because of class skill access to tumble and balance in addition to its fast movement class feature. This has not changed but now the Monk does compete a little bit at levels 1-3 with the Barbarian for maneuverability because both classes have access to Acrobatics and the Barbarian starts off with Fast Movement from 1st level. However this becomes less of an issue when the monk gains Fast Movement and Ki Pool access.
Another neat feature of the Monk is that it gets bonus feats. While not as great in number as the fighter after 2rd level, the added option is nice. The PF Monk has improved in this respect over the 3.5 Monk as they now have a wider selection of feats to choose from at any given level. Also, not having to spend a feat to get Stunning Fist is flat out awesome, effectively giving the PF Monk one extra feat over its 3.5 counterpart.
Ki Pool - How I love thee! When the 3.5 Ninja class came out with this type of class feature, I've long thought the Monk should have something just like it. Channeling and using internal energy to accomplish acrobatic acts of stunning agility and or even the supernatural. Just Brilliant! I'm looking forward to any material containing further options that expand upon this class feature. So much potential here.
I'm currently playing a monk (Sorcerer 1/Monk 4), and here are the bits I like:
- Making lots of attacks
- Running around
- Using bonus feats like Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes (and to a much lesser extent, Stunning Fist)
The bits I don't like (you can skip this part):
- AC is mediocre, even with Mage Armor
- HP is mediocre
- Needs expensive equipment to bypass DR
I just started playing a monk.
You can't hope to outperform the fighter in regards to damage. Just forget about that. Won't work.
What you can do is annoy the heck out of enemies.
I go for grapple and trip, as well as Scorpion/Gorgon/Medusa. Sure, the big strong fighters are still not what you might want to go toe to toe against, but everything else is fair game (and with a bit of luck, the fighters are fair game as well).
You will keep them from firing, you keep them from casting spells, you keep them from going anywhere - in so many ways. They better have good fort saves and combat manoeuvre defences (yes, the AND is important there), or they'll be in trouble.
We started at level 8 (which did help - I cannot tell you how the class performs on lower levels), and when I next level up I'll get greater trip - I'll make them fall on their faces, and they'll take a beating going down and coming up.
And, of course, he's quite fast - all the time. He can also make those Parcours guys look like clumsy couch potatoes - all the time.
A 3.5 Monk character I've long had in the works was based off of the concept of mastering pressure points. One of the PRPG's selling points is its backwards compatibility. If we open up the feats from 3.5 books like Complete Warrior we can gain access to feats like Pain Touch which greatly enhance a Monk's stunning fist attacks.
- Stunned: A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).
- Nauseated: Creatures with the nauseated condition experience stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move actions per turn.
Getting hit with the stunned condition followed by a round of the nauseated condition basically takes an enemy out of the fight for two rounds.
Edit: In my personal opinion, a Monks strongest class feature is the ability to use Stunning Fist. A stunning enemy can do nothing, and having the ability to shut down an enemy to that extent is very powerful. When used in conjunction with attacks from other party members working together it is orders of magnitude more powerful.
Lokie several of those feats aren't need... the pathfinder monk gets several options as he levels that let him choose other options instead of stunning.
Also the monk can have quite the defense without trying... consider that 5 from class features + 13 from Wisdom means that at level 20 he is only 2~4 points behind a shield using full plate wearing person (2 if heavy shield, four if tower or shield focus feats are taken), and that can be made up by spending a Ki point. In addition his Touch Ac is much higher than anyone else's.
In the game I am running, the half orc monk (with greataxe no less) ahs been THE front line fighter (considering the other characters are two bards and a wizard though).
I've started from level 1, so she has ALWAYS dominated combat. She has gone the stunning fist/gorgon strike combo, and tacked on dodge to round out her AC.
Typically, she will move in with a foe (half the time using a charge/stunning fist combo) and then play combat by ear. If her opening stun works, she follows up with gorgans fist, otherwise she will throw in intimidate to give the others time to start any buffing they need to do (the bards sing in harmony with each other peppering bowshot and the occasional hideous laughter, while the wizard selects the spell dujour) If unarmed blows don't work, she switches to the greataxe.
She has a decent amount of flexibility in combat though she takes damage poorly. The wizard is contemplating learning mage armour to assist her armour class, which would make her a lot more durable in combat.
Batts
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I ran a 3.5 Half-orc monk through 8 levels of Living Greyhawk. Looking forward to recreating him in Pathfinder sometime to compare, but here is what I enjoyed about him in 3.5:
- Fast Movement - I seriously couldn't imagine being a small or armoured character with reduced movement. I like to be where I'm needed in any situation fast! and this gets really good at higher levels.
- Tumble (now Acrobatics) - This was insanely good and a lot of fun in 3.5, getting where I need to be, even though through enemy squares, though I hear it's been somewhat nerfed in Pathfinder?
- Flurry of Blows - My Half-orc maxed his Str. A lot of players questioned this build, suggesting it wasn't taking advantage of the Monk's strengths, and true, he was a bit of a glass cannon, but he'd strike often, and do a lot of damage when he did, before going down. Don't know whether this would have been sustainable at higher levels, but it worked well for me up to 8th.
- Non-lethal damage - Despite a brutish build, my Half-orc was a pacifist at heart, particularly when it came to his own kind. He challenged other's negative views of Orc society, claiming he'd seen much more evil committed by the hands of humans than he'd ever witnessed among Orcs - after all, Evil wizards are almost universally human. Therefore, he'd only deal non-lethal damage to Orcs or Half-orcs, much to the annoyance of his adventuring companions. Sure, it's a story element, but it gave my character flavour I enjoyed.
- Diplomacy skill - Despite a low Charisma, in keeping with his pacifist and half-breed of two cultures nature, he maxed out Diplomacy. When other party members make a mess of diplomatic relations, my rough half-Orc would be quietly observing from the background and then surprise everyone by stepping in and turning the discussion around.
- High saves - it's bad enough falling from the action due to being a front-line fighter with low AC (no armour and not maxing Monk Wis bonus), High Saves help keep you on your feet in other situations.
Despite having built a maxed-Str Monk, I completely agree with KaeYoss above:
You can't hope to outperform the fighter in regards to damage. Just forget about that. Won't work.
Too many players b~%!* and moan about the Monk comparing it to the Fighter. Flurry of Blows, Fast Movement, Martial-arts inspired, the Monk can be a lot of fun. If you want a fighter, then play a fighter. The Monk is it's own beast.
There are a great amount of posts that are constantly about why many people believe the Monk class "sucks", this thread is not to be used for that purpose. I myself rather like the look of the PF Monk class on paper. (Even if there is always room for improvement) However, that being said, I've not yet had a chance to seriously play one in game. Instead of commenting on the "bad", I'd like to take a look at what the class CAN do.
One of the things the Monk class has always been lauded for has been its maneuverability. In 3.5 this was mostly because of class skill access to tumble and balance in addition to its fast movement class feature. This has not changed but now the Monk does compete a little bit at levels 1-3 with the Barbarian for maneuverability because both classes have access to Acrobatics and the Barbarian starts off with Fast Movement from 1st level. However this becomes less of an issue when the monk gains Fast Movement and Ki Pool access.
Another neat feature of the Monk is that it gets bonus feats. While not as great in number as the fighter after 2rd level, the added option is nice. The PF Monk has improved in this respect over the 3.5 Monk as they now have a wider selection of feats to choose from at any given level. Also, not having to spend a feat to get Stunning Fist is flat out awesome, effectively giving the PF Monk one extra feat over its 3.5 counterpart.
Ki Pool - How I love thee! When the 3.5 Ninja class came out with this type of class feature, I've long thought the Monk should have something just like it. Channeling and using internal energy to accomplish acrobatic acts of stunning agility and or even the supernatural. Just Brilliant! I'm looking forward to any material containing further options that expand upon this class feature. So much potential here.
Monks can use vital strike better than anyone 5 fighter 15 monk large sized with monk robes could be doing 16d8 on a single attack, and I believe could be stunning/paralyzing their opponent with the same blow.
Straight monk could pull of 12d8 which is still respectable for one punch. It was also brought to my attention that they can do medusa's wrath with stunning fist so can skip the gorgon & scorpion style.
They can potentially jump straight up in the air and vital strike a flying creature for decent damage and come back down when other characters are grounded for one reason or another.
Lokie several of those feats aren't need... the pathfinder monk gets several options as he levels that let him choose other options instead of stunning.
Also the monk can have quite the defense without trying... consider that 5 from class features + 13 from Wisdom means that at level 20 he is only 2~4 points behind a shield using full plate wearing person (2 if heavy shield, four if tower or shield focus feats are taken), and that can be made up by spending a Ki point. In addition his Touch Ac is much higher than anyone else's.
Pain Touch and Weakening Touch are both still very good options. Also by picking up Freezing the Lifeblood, you gain access to the ability to paralyze a foe nearly 10 levels earlier.
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You will keep them from firing, you keep them from casting spells, you keep them from going anywhere - in so many ways. They better have good fort saves and combat manoeuvre defences (yes, the AND is important there), or they'll be in trouble.
Dittos to all of KaeYoss' comments. Want to have some real fun? Cast Silence on the monk and then let him tumble into the back ranks with the enemy casters. Playing a monk well requires considerable creativity, and it always helps to have good party tactics so the monk can help flank, provide cover for your own squishies, etc.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Monk can be an interesting dip, especially for monsters. GM can add a level of monk to get a monster +2 on all saving throws plus Wis modifier to AC, a bonus feat, and stunning fist. A 2nd monk level gives another +1 to all saves, bonus feat, and evasion.
I always thought monks made great assassins, too. A monk/assassin can be the ultimate sleeper agent killer; he can kill you instantly, with his bare hands, without a lick of magic. You're facing an unarmed peasant and the next thing you know it's BAM! save or die time.
A monk works best as a melee skirmisher, I've always thought. The point of a monk isn't to be able to stand in front and exchange full attacks with a fighter. Spring Attack was practically made for monks with their high movement. A monk who takes a feat or another class dip to be able to use a reach weapon is even better: IUS means that they still threaten the close 5' even when holding a reach weapon. It's true that if you are making full use of your movement, you aren't making flurries of blows, but think of those as more of an opportunity thing. You stop and flurry in order to maximize your damage output when your movement takes you near something vulnerable. And you have at your disposal ways to create vulnerabilities: CMB moves, Stunning Fist, etc.
Even though monks are meleers, their defense revolves around not being in the location where enemy heavy hitters can hit them (high movement, Acrobatics). In addition, they have good defenses against enemy ranged offenses (high saves, evasion, Deflect Arrows).
So here's a monk's niche: they are melee skirmish combatants that are good at creating and exploiting vulnerabilities, particularly in the enemy's second-line combatants.
I have always liked monks. I have always imagined them as a fantasy version of special forces. They have great mobility, saves, skill points and evasion. Another great ability is being able to acquire bonus feats without requiring their prerequisites. I think spring attack and vital strike are both a must.
Enlarge, monks belt, magic fang perm and amulet of mighty fist for damage.
well Charlie got his post off before I did sorry for the overlapping ideas.
Monks are also unique among the weapon users in that they benefit near equally from any full caster in the group. Bards, Clerics, Druids, and Wizards/Sorcerers all have powerful buffs to pimp the crap out of the character.
In our last campaign our monk was a MONSTER. From her massive amount of attacks, easily buffed AC (magically, that is), and insane mobility she could drop anyone in under 2 rounds.
So...
A Monk can jump REALLY good. The fact that the Monk has increased speed also increases the ability to jump by +4 on every 10 feet over 30 feet of movement. At 5th level they can add their Monk level to Acrobatics checks to jump and are always treated as getting a running start for jumps. They also get they ability to spend a Ki Point to gain a +20 on their jump checks for 1 round.
This means a 18th level Monk gets a +12 on his jump checks from speed, a +18 on his jump checks from his level, a +18 on his jump check from Acrobatics ranks, and can gain a +20 for one round by spending a ki point. Thats a +68 on a jump check before figuring for Dexterity.
Too many players b&%~~ and moan about the Monk comparing it to the Fighter. Flurry of Blows, Fast Movement, Martial-arts inspired, the Monk can be a lot of fun. If you want a fighter, then play a fighter. The Monk is it's own beast
You can't hope to outperform the fighter in regards to damage. Just forget about that. Won't work.
Do you want me to beat you with my bare hands or with a falchion for your insolence?
If you stopped spewing profanities and indirectly begging me to come over and torture you you might have read that I was suggesting that you can't play a monk like a damage-focussed fighter.
Also the monk can have quite the defense without trying... consider that 5 from class features + 13 from Wisdom means that at level 20
... he must start with Wis 20 (18 rolled/purchased +2 race), add all 5 level advancement points to it, get a +5 inherent bonus and an item that grants him a +6 enhancement bonus.
I can see the +6 Wis item. Maybe the book, too, but unless you roll and are lucky to get that 18, you'll be hard-pressed to pull that off: Assuming any sort of purchase system that doesn't give you all 18s in everything, you'll need to spread out your resources over 3-5 ability scores. Frankly, starting with 18 is often pushing it.
You forget another couple of things, though:
All in all, I do think that monks can get pretty decent AC. And their touch and flat-footed AC will be nice, too.
Yes Kae, note the "Without trying part". Before they try they're are in good shape, after they try they are even better. All told of all the base classes the Monk can end up with the highest AC in the game.
Beyond that we have point buy for a reason ;D
At 20 assuming 18 dex start and items it would be +4(Dex)+2(stat bumps)+24(Speed)+20(Level)+24(Skill ranks)+20(Ki point)+10(Ring of Jumping,improved)+3(Belt of Incedible dex)
=+107 to jump check
This brings up a question I've had regarding jumping as it pertains to these really high skill levels. Assuming that there is vertical clearance, how do you figure out the height achieved at the apex of a running long-jump? Basically, I'm trying to figure out if the monk can jump the front-line to get to the squishies behind.
This brings up a question I've had regarding jumping as it pertains to these really high skill levels. Assuming that there is vertical clearance, how do you figure out the height achieved at the apex of a running long-jump? Basically, I'm trying to figure out if the monk can jump the front-line to get to the squishies behind.At 20 assuming 18 dex start and items it would be +4(Dex)+2(stat bumps)+24(Speed)+20(Level)+24(Skill ranks)+20(Ki point)+10(Ring of Jumping,improved)+3(Belt of Incedible dex)
=+107 to jump check
That's easy. Take the exact same Acrobatics total that was rolled and divide it by 4 (assuming a running start, or the ability to ignore running starts).
For example, let's say your monk rolled a total of 60 on his Acrobatics check to jump. He jumps forward 60 feet and reaches a maximum height of 15 feet at the halfway point of his jump.
For example, let's say your monk rolled a total of 60 on his Acrobatics check to jump. He jumps forward 60 feet and reaches a maximum height of 15 feet at the halfway point of his jump.
Thanks. That's what I figured, but I couldn't find it written that it applied in this situation clearly anywhere.
For example, let's say your monk rolled a total of 60 on his Acrobatics check to jump. He jumps forward 60 feet and reaches a maximum height of 15 feet at the halfway point of his jump.Thanks. That's what I figured, but I couldn't find it written that it applied in this situation clearly anywhere.
It's this line in the SRD under the Jump Skill (and under Long Jump): "At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance."
It's this line in the SRD under the Jump Skill (and under Long Jump): "At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance."For example, let's say your monk rolled a total of 60 on his Acrobatics check to jump. He jumps forward 60 feet and reaches a maximum height of 15 feet at the halfway point of his jump.Thanks. That's what I figured, but I couldn't find it written that it applied in this situation clearly anywhere.
Good to know.
A result of "60" might be possible even with only a +40 on your jump checks. That nat-20 result makes for an impressive leap as you clear a 15 ft. wall in the middle of your 60ft. long jump. There is an item from the Magic Item Compendium called the "Belt of Ultimate Athleticism" that lets you "take 10" on Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, and Tumble checks for one round when you activate it as a swift action. Once per day you can "take 20" on those same checks. Updated to Pathfinder that would be Acrobatics, Climb, and Swim checks. Pretty nice item for Pathfinder Monks.
I think you missed a few things. He's actually better than that. :D At 18 a monk has +60ft to his speed making it a base land speed of 90ft. That's +24 the the acrobatics roll. Plus Its a class skill so +3 there.
+24(Speed)+18(Level)+21(Skill ranks)+20(Ki point)=83 before dex mod and items.At 20 assuming 18 dex start and items it would be +4(Dex)+2(stat bumps)+24(Speed)+20(Level)+24(Skill ranks)+20(Ki point)+10(Ring of Jumping,improved)+3(Belt of Incedible dex)
=+107 to jump check
Whoops...
What I get for trying to do math right before bed. Good Catch.
Lets see...
At 5th level Monks are immune to all Diseases. This includes supernatural ones. This makes Monks (much like Paladins) uniquely suited to fighting undead like mummy's or creatures like lycanthropes.
As a personal fan of Human Fighters... I can tell you... mummy rot SUCKS!
I am playing a human monk in Pathfinder Society. I agree that monks are incredibly mobile (I've been able to leap about 60 feet from a standstill for a couple of levels now, and recently was jumping over walls of ice to help out party members trapped therein by a bone devil).
The most flexible part, however, are the ki pool points. Apart from the great jumping, the ability to throw on another attack or to increase your defense in a substantial way means you can go to the front lines and throw down, or go to the front lines and tank a bit. I feel I can do either as needed.
Note the monk gets an incredible number of attacks (six attacks at level 9, with boots of speed and the ki point), and therefore benefit most from abilities that trigger on an attack. I recommend a wounding amulet of mighty fists (I've been quite happy with my vicious amulet of mighty fists, but the damage to me is pretty high!).
I generally don't have any patience for a class that can't hold its own. I never played a 3.5 monk for more than a couple of levels, but I've been quite happy with the mobility, flexibility, and damage output of the Pathfinder monk for 9 levels now.
Disarm. I took improved disarm (bonus to disarm) with my monk, combined with the CMB feat (use Monk level as BAB) and a pair of sai (bonus to disarm), I can disarm about anyone. You can shut a fighter down quick. If he doesn't have his weapon in hand, he is pretty useless. I also took step up so spellcasters have a hard time as well as you step up punch them if they take a step back and on my turn I always try to stun them.
I think this monk is a vast improvement over the 3.5 monk. While my guy is more of a finesse type (he isn't very strong), he can still pack a punch by burning a Ki point and getting that extra attack at a full bonus.
Not an overpowering master of melee damage, but he can do some fun things.
This could be really fun with some tweaks to improve stunning fist, as stunned enemies drop whatever they are holding as well. Anything you cannot stun, you can disarm. I like it.
I'm running a game with a monk in it, and what I've found from behind my DM screen is that the monk is a game changer. It's not every encounter, but maybe 1 in 3 that he'll bust out some kind of manuever or attack or move that completely throws off my bad guys plans.
Maybe he'll grapple a caster, or stun someone, or trip them. Maybe he'll tumble past a bunch of defenders and suddenly put a previously safe enemy into the front line. Sometimes he'll jump into the middle of a bunch of badguys and turn into an unhittable target with total defense and ki points, sucking up attacks that probably could go elsewhere.
It's always just one die roll away from turning my encounter on its head and generally taking something that was a big threat and turning it into a simple encounter.
I find it both frustrating ("I mean, come on... that was supposed to be a tough fight!") and exciting ("I had no idea how you guys were going to survive that."), and think that's what the monk brings to the table.
This could be really fun with some tweaks to improve stunning fist, as stunned enemies drop whatever they are holding as well. Anything you cannot stun, you can disarm. I like it.A ghoul.
This is the kind of negative post I said I do not want here. Its trolling. Quit it!
So you would rather find out your monk can do nothing to the ghoul when it eats your monks face?
No... I'm pretty sure "My" Monk could tear apart a ghoul with little difficulty because of its low ac and hp. And because of the monks very nice saves, have less fear than most other characters that have to deal with the ghouls paralysis.
Edit: Just thought to check the updated version. Ghoul Fever is a supernatural disease and after 5th level the Monk would be immune.
I protest the pointlessness of his post in context.
Had he even TRIED... he could have politely asked how people who have played Monks have dealt with ghouls.
This is the kind of negative post I said I do not want here. Its trolling. Quit it!This could be really fun with some tweaks to improve stunning fist, as stunned enemies drop whatever they are holding as well. Anything you cannot stun, you can disarm. I like it.A ghoul.
For the Void's sake, loosen up, man! It was a playful jibe, not trolling.
And that ghoul will tear your monk apart. It has 30 levels of cleric and is a deity. So there. :P
I say, disarm and most importatly trip are VERY nice options. Most guys can be tripped, not most can be disarmed considering several monster don't have weapons and such. But trip is a very nice substitute in almost any situation, except for flying creatures and amourphous ones, which are tough anyhow, trip or no trip.
Disarm turns out to be AWESOME when fighting someone with a nice weapon, rod or staff, it's even better for a monk character, why? Because he can disarm the fool an be with the weapon in his hand for free and not lose ANY attacks because of it, besides that the guy instead of just picking up his weapon, would have to disarm YOU to take it, and do it unnarmed for that matter... so, not really a chance of that happening... So, in the end, fighter or any melee class vs monk one on one, if the monk is focused at disarm, I put all my money on him.
Disarm turns out to be AWESOME when fighting someone with a nice weapon, rod or staff, it's even better for a monk character, why? Because he can disarm the fool an be with the weapon in his hand for free and not lose ANY attacks because of it, besides that the guy instead of just picking up his weapon, would have to disarm YOU to take it, and do it unnarmed for that matter... so, not really a chance of that happening... So, in the end, fighter or any melee class vs monk one on one, if the monk is focused at disarm, I put all my money on him.Monks get a -4 to disarm while unarmed, just like everyone else.
However, they can kick a weapon out of an opponent's hand and catch it in a full hand.
That makes absolutely no sense. How can you catch anything in a "full" hand? (answer: you cannot by RAW)
However, if you have picked up improved disarm you are only going to have a overall penalty of -2 to your unarmed disarm attempts. Pick up greater disarm and said penalty is negated. The benefit of walking away with the opponents weapon is worth that. If the Monk does not care about holding the weapon afterwards, having a Sai or Nunchacku in hand gives him an even greater chance to send that enemies weapon flying 15 feet away. (you get the +4 from the two feats) End result in either case is that the weapon is out of the enemy's hands and the enemy would have to expend extra effort to reclaim it.
They ARE, however, more effective strategies than just dealing HP damage, since you need to actually kill an opponent to disable them that way. And while Stunning and Disarming is a tactic other classes can use, the monk has several natural advantages in that direction.Fair point. I think my point is better stated that very few enemies are worth disarming (or disarmable at all) but immune to being stunned. Undead are more more often monsters or spellcasters than they are class-level opponents who wield melee weapons. Likewise for constructs, and oozes and amorphous foes are nearly never weapon-wielders.
So monks are best off specializing in tactics which are not redundant with something they can do before expending discretionary resources.
If you are playing in a campaign that ignores the "civilized" world and are only fighting monsters then YES... a Monk is going to have problems. In campaigns that are half/half the Monk really is not that bad off. (A vast majority of beasts, animals, and monsterous humaniods are all stun-able.) In purely urban campaigns the Monk has an advantage as the majority of his foes will be subject to stunning.
It all comes down to what kind of campaign you are playing.
That makes absolutely no sense. How can you catch anything in a "full" hand? (answer: you cannot by RAW)Oh really. I can show you, in RAW, where you are allowed to disarm someone and catch their weapon in your full hand.
You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack. If you do not have the Improved Disarm feat, or a similar ability, attempting to disarm a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Attempting to disarm a foe while unarmed imposes a –4 penalty on the attack.
[...]
If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full.Thus, a monk can disarm you with his foot and kick your weapon into his full hand. I guess dropping whatever he has if he wants, or holding it in his hand awkwardly. (It's possible, try holding two brooms in one hand.)
Oh, I know. Monks can disarm people with their mouth. :D
Now, I've shown you the RAW place where you are specifically allowed to do this, and even given some mental images on how the monk does it. They're silly mental images, admittedly, but the source material for the monk is not exactly srs bsns. (Despite the fact that I loved Kung Fu as much as the next guy.)
*snip*
Try that cheese in any game with a DM with half a lick of sense and you'd get laughed at. Or... they might let you catch that battleaxe or sword blade first. (rolls for damage) ;p
You need to have a "free hand" to be able to hold something. RAW/RAI call it what you will... the intend is that you disarm a foe unarmed, and you wrench the weapon away from them and hold it in your formally empty hands.
The grey area is when you have a Monk with ONE Sai or Nunchaku and ONE free hand. Can a Monk use the Sai to disarm his foes weapon and use his free hand to snatch said weapon away? (Would work in "real life" but as the rules are written I'm leaning towards no. As you can only take the weapon away if you are unarmed.)
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Disarm turns out to be AWESOME when fighting someone with a nice weapon, rod or staff, it's even better for a monk character, why? Because he can disarm the fool an be with the weapon in his hand for free and not lose ANY attacks because of it, besides that the guy instead of just picking up his weapon, would have to disarm YOU to take it, and do it unnarmed for that matter... so, not really a chance of that happening... So, in the end, fighter or any melee class vs monk one on one, if the monk is focused at disarm, I put all my money on him.Monks get a -4 to disarm while unarmed, just like everyone else.
Do they? IUS says they are armed even when unarmed; you could make a case, I think, for IUS thereby negating the -4 penalty.
Um. Kay? Didn't say Stunning Fist was bad, far from it. (Although it seems to me that constructs and undead, as products of magical industry, are more common in cities than in the wilderness...) My point was that 95% of the time, if you could disarm someone, you'd rather just stun them.If you are playing in a campaign that ignores the "civilized" world and are only fighting monsters then YES... a Monk is going to have problems. In campaigns that are half/half the Monk really is not that bad off. (A vast majority of beasts, animals, and monsterous humaniods are all stun-able.) In purely urban campaigns the Monk has an advantage as the majority of his foes will be subject to stunning.
It all comes down to what kind of campaign you are playing.
I'd agree that I'd rather stun an enemy over disarming them. Some enemies might be hardier than others and more resistant to stunning. Thus the disarming comes into play. Also, taking away a foes obviously magical weapon from them is well worth it.
(Enemy Fighter draws his sword and ignites it with a word, grinning with evil menace. Monk PC goes into a flurry of motion, :disarm rolls: and grins back while holding the fighter's sword.)