RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I want to buy the print version of Classic Monsters Revisited when it is reprinted (if ever) but I can't wait that long to hear about the minotaurs. What did they do with the minotaurs? Why did some people say it was underwhelming?
I want to buy the print version of Classic Monsters Revisited when it is reprinted (if ever) but I can't wait that long to hear about the minotaurs. What did they do with the minotaurs? Why did some people say it was underwhelming?
I can't speak for those that don't like them, as I do :) The Minotaur is very much tied to his classic, mythological roots. Here's the opening quote and the bit on them in Golarion for your enjoyment. (apologies for any typoes, we found our copy in a bookstore, so no PDF to cut and paste from <G>)
Minotaur
"It is said that the endless maze has but one exit. Those who become lost in its twisting corridors face far worse than starvation. A hunter stalks the maze--a hunter born of fury, with a hunger for the flesh of those who would scorn him.
"The beast is in the hunter's blood, and no man can match his ferocity. Rage girds the hunter's limbs, and no warrior can match his strength. Two horns does the hunter carry, but not to call for aid. His horns are used to rip and tear, to crush and kill. He is the minotaur, and the maze is his domain."
--Etched upon the gate of Charizduin, the Forbidden Labyrinth
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Minotaurs in Golarion
In the ancient days, before the Earthfall that shattered the continents and brought about the Age of Darkness, the first of the humans, the Azlant, brought the curse of the minotaur down upon themselves.
Minotaurs hold that these first humans were a cruel and arrogant lot, believing themsleves more important than the gods. Lamashtu, the goddess of monsters, tried to impress the people of Tulo, and gifted them with a sacred birth--a great two-headed cow. In their horror, the people of Tulo did not see the gift for what it was and put the sacred animal to the sword. Within a month, all the women of Tulo came to realize that they were pregnant. Taking this as a sign of favor, excitement grew as the time of their birthing drew near. The cries of joy quickly turned to terror as the first minotaurs were born. Afraid to anger the gods further, the people raised the minotaurs--at first. As other children were born, the people once again scorned Lamashtu, favoring their "normal" children and shunning the young minotaurs. Over time, the town elders decided to be rid of the minotaurs once and for all, imprisoning them in a gigantic maze.
As the years passed, the people of Tulo hid the truth of their terrible offspring, striking all record of them. Only Lamashtu remembered her chosen, and as the minotaurs aged, they came to know the injustices done to them. On the eve of the tenth anniversary of their imprisonment, the minotaurs surged out of their maze, having long since mastered their prison. In one night of bloodshed, the entire town of Tulo was devoured. Its children had come home for dinner.
Today, minotaurs have spread far and wide across the surface of Golarion. They lurk in the shadows, preying upon the civilized races. While they are rarely encountered in groups aboveground, there are a few isolated minotaur tribes in the Five Kings and Menador Mountain ranges. While most are simple hunters, preying upon travelers and explorers, a rare few rent their services as mercenaries and scouts. Such contracts almost always include the right to eat the quarry.
For example, if you lived in the DFW area, you'd be able to go to Barnes & Noble and pick up a copy of CMR...just sayin'...
(If you have to wait too long, I'd say the pdf would be worth it. I think the paper copy was either my first or second Paizo purchase and turned me into a groveling fan-boy.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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For example, if you lived in the DFW area, you'd be able to go to Barnes & Noble and pick up a copy of CMR...just sayin'...
(If you have to wait too long, I'd say the pdf would be worth it. I think the paper copy was either my first or second Paizo purchase and turned me into a groveling fan-boy.)
Hehehe. Yeah, I'm seriously thinking about it but it isn't going to happen this year. If I don't find that tenure track position in Canada in the next year and a half, I'll start applying south of the border. (The government just lifted mandatory retirement for professors so the job market isn't too good here right now).
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Essentially the Minotaurs are tied to their mythological roots, unlike many other races. Think of these as nearly mindless monsters of no serious intellect or society that hang around dungeons and mazes waiting for adventurers to show up and kill them.
OK, maybe not that bad.
They certainly are not Taurens from World of Warcraft.
They do have a primitive tribal society and have a soft spot for beasts of burden. Their society revolves around the maze, which makes sense. They are in constant battle with their animal and man halves, but usually the animal part wins.
In essence there is very little new or inspiring about the Minotaurs. Several other races had some really fresh new interpretations, but the Minotaurs seemed to have the old stereotype reinforced yet again.
I had hoped to see something more advanced. A great Minotaur island city built like an enormous maze. Ruled by force of will and sheer power. Chaotic battles raged in the streets as one clan fights with another for power and control.
Of course there really aren't any nonhuman cities anywhere that I can tell. I think there MIGHT be an elven city, but certainly there are no others. I have no idea why game designers would create a world so absolutely dominated by one race (humans) and essentially alienating the other six player races and even casting all other npc races as minor players suitable only for monsters. In my own game I would definitely increase the presence and history of nonhumans.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Essentially the Minotaurs are tied to their mythological roots, unlike many other races. Think of these as nearly mindless monsters of no serious intellect or society that hang around dungeons and mazes waiting for adventurers to show up and kill them.
Well, my minotaur will be a bit different. He's unusually intelligent for a minotaur and has a definite reason for being in a labyrinth.
The 'constant battle' part helps. I'll do something with that in the story, I think.
I'm having a good bit of fun with this fanzine thing Lilith is organizing. I'm not really familiar with WoW. You wanna know how boring I am? I've read a rather thick book about how players in WoW negotiate online/offline identities but I haven't played the game. :-O. I wonder if my minotaur is going to come across as a Tauren.
Creative Director
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Of course there really aren't any nonhuman cities anywhere that I can tell. I think there MIGHT be an elven city, but certainly there are no others. I have no idea why game designers would create a world so absolutely dominated by one race (humans) and essentially alienating the other six player races and even casting all other npc races as minor players suitable only for monsters. In my own game I would definitely increase the presence and history of nonhumans.
It basically comes down to a matter of taste. The literary traditions from which D&D sprang were from sources where humans were the dominant race; Leiber, Howard, even Tolkein. The other six races in the core rules are VERY close to humans, and that's also by design. The game's written by humans for humans, after all, which lets us save space and focus on the fantastic and how humans and the human condition reacts to it.
I'd MUCH rather experience a story from a human point of view in a world where there's a lot of fantastic stuff going on, because the point of view is grounded in reality and allows me to immerse myself in that world much easier. If the Point of View was from something non-human, that can still be entertaining but since I have no frame of reference as a minotaur or a dragon or a snake man, I'm distracted by the fact that the POV is strange and less interested in the rest of the world.
A human in a fantasy world is a window we can look through to experience the world.
A non-human in a fantasy world is a painting that's semi transparent; we can look through to see the fantasy world, but we're constantly distracted by the painting we're looking through.
If the story's about the painting, that's fine. If it's about the world, the painting just gets in the way.
EDIT: We have several non-human cities in Golarion, in any event. We've detailed several elf cities so far in Pathfinder, and have mentioned plenty of dwarf, gnome, and orc cities as well, as well as other racial cities. They're there if you look for them.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Of course there really aren't any nonhuman cities anywhere that I can tell. I think there MIGHT be an elven city, but certainly there are no others. I have no idea why game designers would create a world so absolutely dominated by one race (humans) and essentially alienating the other six player races and even casting all other npc races as minor players suitable only for monsters. In my own game I would definitely increase the presence and history of nonhumans.
There are NUMEROUS dwarven cities in the campaign setting. Off the top of my head there's Janderhoff in Varisia and Highhelm in the Five Kings Mountain region, but there are more. Half-orcs don't really have a "city," per se, but the Hold of Belkzen is lousy with them (and the capital of that nation is a conquered dwarven city).
Elves have cities in Kyonin and in the Mordant Spire.
Gnomes have communities in Cheliax and elsewhere.
The campaign setting is admittedly humanocentric, but the other races are a part of the world. I can understand why a given GM would want to pump up the demihuman stuff, but I don't want to let a post past that says there are no demihuman communities. That's simply not the case.
There are NUMEROUS dwarven cities in the campaign setting. Off the top of my head there's Janderhoff in Varisia and Highhelm in the Five Kings Mountain region, but there are more.
And, at least some of them will be after gettin' some love soon too, I'm guessin'.
Half-orcs don't really have a "city," per se, but the Hold of Belkzen is lousy with them (and the capital of that nation is a conquered dwarven city).
Aye. A dwarf's work is never done.
*sharpens his axe*
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I'd MUCH rather experience a story from a human point of view in a world where there's a lot of fantastic stuff going on, because the point of view is grounded in reality and allows me to immerse myself in that world much easier. If the Point of View was from something non-human, that can still be entertaining but since I have no frame of reference as a minotaur or a dragon or a snake man, I'm distracted by the fact that the POV is strange and less interested in the rest of the world.
I seem to recall a dark elf character that has done pretty well for himself. ;-)
I like the mix of human and non-human cultures that Golarion has. When I skimmed through the Guide to Absalom, I thought it was going to go too far for me but I think Mr. Stephens has struck just the right mix -- gillmen, minotaurs, centaurs live there but it is still a human dominated city.
Aye. A dwarf's work is never done.
You should start by retaking that city the orcs took from you and now inhabit, taunting you with their presence.
Boy, if I had a big city of mine taken by orcs, I don't know whether I'd hang myself in shame or do everything to get it back.
Another Palladium plug;.....they had a Cyclops city...
... which automatically makes it a horrible idea ;-P
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Aye. A dwarf's work is never done.
You should start by retaking that city the orcs took from you and now inhabit, taunting you with their presence.
Boy, if I had a big city of mine taken by orcs, I don't know whether I'd hang myself in shame or do everything to get it back.
Another Palladium plug;.....they had a Cyclops city...... which automatically makes it a horrible idea ;-P
Didn't the elves pretty much loose entire nations and well pretty much abandon the entire planet? I seriously would have preferred if they had not come back, the place reeks now. Need a can of bug spray to deal with this elven infestation.
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Of course there really aren't any nonhuman cities anywhere that I can tell. I think there MIGHT be an elven city, but certainly there are no others. I have no idea why game designers would create a world so absolutely dominated by one race (humans) and essentially alienating the other six player races and even casting all other npc races as minor players suitable only for monsters. In my own game I would definitely increase the presence and history of nonhumans.It basically comes down to a matter of taste. The literary traditions from which D&D sprang were from sources where humans were the dominant race; Leiber, Howard, even Tolkein. The other six races in the core rules are VERY close to humans, and that's also by design. The game's written by humans for humans, after all, which lets us save space and focus on the fantastic and how humans and the human condition reacts to it.
I'd MUCH rather experience a story from a human point of view in a world where there's a lot of fantastic stuff going on, because the point of view is grounded in reality and allows me to immerse myself in that world much easier. If the Point of View was from something non-human, that can still be entertaining but since I have no frame of reference as a minotaur or a dragon or a snake man, I'm distracted by the fact that the POV is strange and less interested in the rest of the world.
A human in a fantasy world is a window we can look through to experience the world.
A non-human in a fantasy world is a painting that's semi transparent; we can look through to see the fantasy world, but we're constantly distracted by the painting we're looking through.
If the story's about the painting, that's fine. If it's about the world, the painting just gets in the way.
EDIT: We have several non-human cities in Golarion, in any event. We've detailed several elf cities so far in Pathfinder, and have mentioned plenty of dwarf, gnome, and orc cities as well, as well as other racial cities. They're there if...
I do understand what you are saying. I'm not saying it is horrible what you guys have done, but I would sure have tried to be more inclusive of my audience.
See, no matter what race a player actually chooses to play, it is still an exploration of the human condition. Simply because the players are human (except for KaeYoss- he's just weird lol). It is very much like going on vacation to a foreign country. I'm American and if I go to Italy, I can view the world for a time through the eyes of Italians, but at all times I am still American.
In truth we can't truly roleplay elves, dwarves, halflings and especially Golrion gnomes. They ARE different races entirely. Essentially alien to our human minds. I could no play an elf "realistically" than I could play a wookie.
The point of the different races is not to cloud or discolor the painting, but rather to GIVE it color. A dwarf player chooses to focus on parts of the human condition represented by dwarves. It gives us an opportunity to use eyes we don't don't use everyday. It allows us to "see" a different way of looking at things.
BTW Erik, you mentioned those elven and dwarven cities but I don't really find any supporting material in the Campaign Setting. As far as I can tell Janderhoff is not mentioned in the Campaign setting except as a single sentence under dwarves. It is a dot on the map. I can't find Highhelm in the Index at all. Can you please tell me where it is described in the Campaign Setting? There is no mention that I can find of Gnomish communities in Cheliax. A favored region perhaps but I can find no communities at all. The elves do receive a country (but then I remember James saying before that he liked elves and had considered not doing any supporting books for the other races). I don't find a single country for dwarves, gnomes, halflings, or half-elves. Though half-orcs do get their place to shine in the Holds.
I think, Erik, you might be using more insider knowledge in defending the concept of non-human communities. The Campaign Setting just doesn't support the claim that there are NUMEROUS nonhuman communities.
There are very few non-human communities listed anywhere in the Campaign Setting.
Now, please understand, I still think Golarion is the coolest setting made! I just plan on taking from being cool, to fantastic. I want to take it from a 9 to an 11!
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The game's written by humans for humans, after all, which lets us save space and focus on the fantastic and how humans and the human condition reacts to it.
Focus on the fantastic... you know things like non-human races... I mean doesn't get more fantastic than that!
I am about to make my absolute biggest criticism of Paizo ever. Sorry. But I really do think Paizo is being lazy and narrow minded and short sighted on the non-human issue. There is a rich myth of non-human races in our history including dwarves and elves and such.
To discard 6 of the 7 choices players have as irrelevant seems lazy. You quoted Tolkein as a source of a human dominated culture. True. Of course there was the book (The Hobbit) about a halfling and a bunch of dwarves having an adventure. I don't recall a single human playing a major role (Gandalf was not human). It was the Hobbits who carried the Ring, not Aragorn (who was not full blooded Human btw).
Now I admit, the addition of non-human source books to the Chronicles line may help a great deal. But honestly it is discouraging to read n the forums that the only book you want to do is elves and that is because you like elves and not the other races. Sure, it's your world. But if you WANT others to play in your sandbox, you might be a little more open about what other people like...
From the Campaign Setting Book, just a quick looking:
Janderhoff and Highhelm, page 7; also additional mention of dwarven locations there
Elven cities are mentioned on page 8
Gnome cities on page 11 -- Brastlewark within the borders of Cheliax (also page 70), Shay Citadels of Irrere, Thom in the River Kingdoms, etc.; Wispil, in Taldor page 137
I'm sure there are more, if I did a full search, not just going from what I remember reading, and there is additional info on gnomish towns in the Katapesh section of the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide, and either a halfling or gnomish town in the Pathfinder Journals that Kline stopped at on his way from Magnimar before he got off the boat...
[edit] And I, for one, feel that the world is very nicely balanced between the humans and the non-humans. Some areas are much more humanocentric than others, but I cannot recall any city description, or country description that does not include other races, how many there may or may not be, and plenty of ways to tie non-human races into a setting, campaign and the world.
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True those sentences for each location provide me a wealth of information. Of course now that I read all about Highhelm I have as much information as the CS provides for Korvosa or even Riddleport. I can easily set my campaign there now.
I assume you sense the sarcasm.
There are 200 pages of information related to humans in the Campaign Setting. There are about 16-20 pages for non-humans.
Assuming that each race gets a 32 page Companion book that would bring the total up to around 200 pages for all the non-human races as well. That IS excellent.
However, I do remember an awful lot of begging that had to be done to get those books. And so far, there is just a dwarven book. I ASSUME the other races will get their fair time as well.
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and there is additional info on gnomish towns in the Katapesh section of the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide, and either a halfling or gnomish town in the Pathfinder Journals that Kline stopped at on his way from Magnimar before he got off the boat...
In this discussion I am trying to focus more on the Campaign Setting than Legacy of Fire Player's Guide. The Companions are OK, as they are meant to be used with the setting. I am not a big fan of having to buy adventures in order to learn about a setting.
See, if I want to play in a setting I expect to learn about that setting in books ABOUT the setting. I don't want to buy every single possible publication that Paizo ever produces in order to play in a setting.
A book that is called Pathfinder Campaign Setting should, in essence should be THE source choice of all material on the setting.
and there is additional info on gnomish towns in the Katapesh section of the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide, and either a halfling or gnomish town in the Pathfinder Journals that Kline stopped at on his way from Magnimar before he got off the boat...
In this discussion I am trying to focus more on the Campaign Setting than Legacy of Fire Player's Guide. The Companions are OK, as they are meant to be used with the setting. I am not a big fan of having to buy adventures in order to learn about a setting.
See, if I want to play in a setting I expect to learn about that setting in books ABOUT the setting. I don't want to buy every single possible publication that Paizo ever produces in order to play in a setting.
A book that is called Pathfinder Campaign Setting should, in essence should be THE source choice of all material on the setting.
True. I brought it up because many folks got it for free as a PDF from Paizo due to the delays not too long.
True those sentences for each location provide me a wealth of information. Of course now that I read all about Highhelm I have as much information as the CS provides for Korvosa or even Riddleport. I can easily set my campaign there now.
I assume you sense the sarcasm.
There are 200 pages of information related to humans in the Campaign Setting. There are about 16-20 pages for non-humans.
Assuming that each race gets a 32 page Companion book that would bring the total up to around 200 pages for all the non-human races as well. That IS excellent.
However, I do remember an awful lot of begging that had to be done to get those books. And so far, there is just a dwarven book. I ASSUME the other races will get their fair time as well.
Yeah, I get your sarcasm ;p
However, I was responding to things you had said in earlier posts:
Of course there really aren't any nonhuman cities anywhere that I can tell and BTW Erik, you mentioned those elven and dwarven cities but I don't really find any supporting material in the Campaign Setting. As far as I can tell Janderhoff is not mentioned in the Campaign setting except as a single sentence under dwarves. It is a dot on the map. I can't find Highhelm in the Index at all. Can you please tell me where it is described in the Campaign Setting? There is no mention that I can find of Gnomish communities in Cheliax.
Just doing a fast look, from memory of reading those sections, I found that information. So now that I showed there were nonhuman cities, and where Highhelm and several Gnomish cities could be found in the PCCS, you want more? :)
Paizo has said many times that they want to leave room for players to create their own. But they are definitely placing plenty of hooks and info for players to use and expand on, and will, I beleive, eventually get around to giving us more information on these non-human areas. They just don't want to flood us with a bajillion books we can't afford to get right away. And while I would love to have LOTS more information right now about everywhere, I am happy they are not making me choose between food and books ::laughing::
((And those who know me in real life know how hard a choice that would actually be!))
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Just doing a fast look, from memory of reading those sections, I found that information. So now that I showed there were nonhuman cities, and where Highhelm and several Gnomish cities could be found in the PCCS, you want more? :)
lol No GG.. no don't go looking for more! Good lord.
The point I am trying to make, is that while there is some stuff listed, I don't think anyone can claim that non-humans have anywhere NEAR the material that plain vanilla humans get.
I mean, most of the nonhuman communities are not even listed in the Index.
And when they do appear, other than elves and half-orcs, it is literally a single sentence. That's not much at all.
Here let me put it to you this way.
We know a a fair amount about many many human cities and cultures. But tell me about Highhelm. Or tell me about one of the gnomish cities. Where do halflings come from?
Yes there is a dwarven book coming. I know from first hand knowledge on the boards how much we had to plead and beg James to do a dwarven book. I remember vividly him saying that aside from elves he didn't care for nonhumans and didn't think anyone would buy books on them and didn't want to publish books on them. I am just thankful we get a dwarven book.
I assume other races will follow. But I personally have not seen a commitment to that (though I am unable to read the entirety of the boards and may have missed that-if so I apologize).
Now also please don't get me wrong. In no way am I saying that Gollarion is poorly done. It is probably tied with all time favorite setting right now and I expect it to win in the end. My other favorite setting is (was) Mystara. Gollarion and Mystara have a LOT in common. However, Mystara makes a point of embracing all of the racial choices into the game. Gollarion allows the races to play, but they are not warmly welcomed to play.
I truly expect that to change with Companion books. But a very vocal group really had to beg and cry for that book.
Now I know I criticized Paizo for I perceive as their lack of embracing nonhumans, but I am still a huge fan or Paizo's work.
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Or tell me about one of the gnomish cities.
The problem with gnomes and their enclaves is that knowledge about one enclave and its society is no reliable resource for any other single enclave and its society. Some gnomish enclaves are whimsical reflection of a human village, with cheerful gnomes working and whistling at simple gnomish woodcraft, and they're happy to see the human-man come by and sell his human-wares; another enclave might be constantly under construction, with gnomes frantically adding balconies or wings or proscenia to their homes in an attempt to have the newest, most unique home - an entire village of Winchester Homes. Yet another enclave might not even be recognizable as a village, due to the cunning concealment of gnomish homes in the surrounding environment and the only gnome a passerby might see is the guy who drew the short straw that morning and is acting sheriff. A gnomish enclave might be a totalitarian dictatorship, an anarcho-syndicalist commune, a pastoral mayorship, or something completely incomprehensible to humans. Gnomes didn't bring a material culture with them from the First World, nor are they particularly noted for their predictability in social culture; every gnomish enclave is a unique expression of their historical arrival in Golarion, unlike all the other humanoid societies that evolved naturally, from a single pre-historical cluster.
A gnomish enclave is entirely a product of the circumstances surrounding its founding - the danger it was initially in, the particular agglomeration of gnomish obsessions in its founders, the attitude and nature of its neighbors at founding. You can't talk about a typical gnomish Enclave like you can an Elven Village, or a Dwarven Hold, or even a Human City (and humans are almost as crazy as Gnomes for the profusion of wackiness as you go from nation to nation).
Where do halflings come from?
We know that the greatest concentration of halflings in Avistan are in the Chelaxian holdings - where they are a sizable minority population of slaves. You can either assume they are a native demihuman race to the western and "near" north-western parts of the continent, or look afield to Chelaxian and Taldan former holdings where one might swipe a lot of adorable tiny humanoid slaves.
Remember when this thread was about Minotaurs? Those were good times. :D
::chuckle:: One last response to Krome, and I promise to leave the thread to the minotaurs, Cap :)
Information on Highhelm from the PCCS:
Highhelm along the southern coast of Lake Encarthan (and more general info on page 7)
Story bit on page 16 (under the halflings, of all places! LOL)
Highhelm (5,600 dwarves) (page 72, under Druma)
Highhelm: The river at Highhelm sparkles with gold dust, and the dwarves there pan it fervently. Everything here has a light gold glitter to it, including the food. Highhelm maintains facilities to host representatives of all dwarf kind when the Gathering Council meets every 200 years. (page 73)
Admittedly, not a lot of info, but enough that I could create my own version of Highhelm with little effort (except for maps, and that goes for most cities).
I guess I just disagree with your premise, Krome, that the information is either lacking, missing, or somehow leaving out the non-humans :) To each his own preferences!
Remember when this thread was about Minotaurs? Those were good times. :D
Now for info on the minos from the PCCS <G>
Page 57, bottom of first column, under the Kortos Mounts
Page 174, first column, Baphomet: Lord of the Minotaurs, Demon Lord of
Labyrinths and Beasts
And they're in the Ruins random list on page 252 :)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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To discard 6 of the 7 choices players have as irrelevant seems lazy. You quoted Tolkein as a source of a human dominated culture. True. Of course there was the book (The Hobbit) about a halfling and a bunch of dwarves having an adventure. I don't recall a single human playing a major role (Gandalf was not human). It was the Hobbits who carried the Ring, not Aragorn (who was not full blooded Human btw).
Bard the Bowman, Slayer of Smaug... full human.
--Vrock the House!
GENTRIFICATION!
And they're in the Ruins random list on page 252 :)
ROFL!
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Sorry for the threadjacking! lol I hate when others do that! lol really am sorry.
Back to the minos!
I am writing a fun little adventure and throwing in a Minotaur in an unexpected place. The adventure requires the adventurers to travel from Absalom to Sothis. At 2nd level that will be via ship, of course. The ship they sign on to will be captained by a tyrannical Minotaur, known for his cruel abuse of crew but also for the fact the he has never been attacked by pirates.
The ship will be made out into a maze like environment from all of the cargo stashed that over fills the ship. This is my attempt to get a Minotaur into the game in an unexpected way.
During the trip there are two planned encounters. One with a sea serpent that damages the maze of cargo and earning the eternal ire of the Minotaur captain and also a pirate encounter. They are not attacked by pirates but rather approached for aid by pirates fleeing a Chelaxian ship. The Chelaxians then engage both ships in combat.
Both encounters should provide plenty of opportunities for the players to do their best swashbuckling efforts and to see how they deal with a cruel tyrant running the ship. So hopefully, fun combat and roleplaying as well.
Sorry for the threadjacking! lol I hate when others do that! lol really am sorry.
Back to the minos!
I am writing a fun little adventure and throwing in a Minotaur in an unexpected place. The adventure requires the adventurers to travel from Absalom to Sothis. At 2nd level that will be via ship, of course. The ship they sign on to will be captained by a tyrannical Minotaur, known for his cruel abuse of crew but also for the fact the he has never been attacked by pirates.
The ship will be made out into a maze like environment from all of the cargo stashed that over fills the ship. This is my attempt to get a Minotaur into the game in an unexpected way.
During the trip there are two planned encounters. One with a sea serpent that damages the maze of cargo and earning the eternal ire of the Minotaur captain and also a pirate encounter. They are not attacked by pirates but rather approached for aid by pirates fleeing a Chelaxian ship. The Chelaxians then engage both ships in combat.
Both encounters should provide plenty of opportunities for the players to do their best swashbuckling efforts and to see how they deal with a cruel tyrant running the ship. So hopefully, fun combat and roleplaying as well.
One of the few things I liked about Krynn was the Mino's - Except when they had to go and introduce good Mino's.
I try and maintain Minoan/Mycenaean cultural aspects for my Mino's. A good way to freak out your plays is have a pentaconter (50 oared galley)rowed by Minotaurs (Armed Troy Style) turn up and raid a coastal town (Sandpoint maybe).
You could have the Mino's be surviving Azlant or Thasalonian servants inhabiting a ruins on a large island far from shore. Possibly who have just developed seafaring & bronze working and are now going on slave raids to feed and staff their growing empire.
One of the few things I liked about Krynn was the Mino's - Except when they had to go and introduce good Mino's.I try and maintain Minoan/Mycenaean cultural aspects for my Mino's. A good way to freak out your plays is have a pentaconter (50 oared galley)rowed by Minotaurs (Armed Troy Style) turn up and raid a coastal town (Sandpoint maybe).
You could have the Mino's be surviving Azlant or Thasalonian servants inhabiting a ruins on a large island far from shore. Possibly who have just developed seafaring & bronze working and are now going on slave raids to feed and staff their growing empire.
I'm with you on that, 8th Dwarf, and I really like the image of minotaurs rowing up to a doomed port village in a trireme.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I'm with you on that, 8th Dwarf, and I really like the image of minotaurs rowing up to a doomed port village in a trireme.
One of the few things I liked about Krynn was the Mino's - Except when they had to go and introduce good Mino's.I try and maintain Minoan/Mycenaean cultural aspects for my Mino's. A good way to freak out your plays is have a pentaconter (50 oared galley)rowed by Minotaurs (Armed Troy Style) turn up and raid a coastal town (Sandpoint maybe).
You could have the Mino's be surviving Azlant or Thasalonian servants inhabiting a ruins on a large island far from shore. Possibly who have just developed seafaring & bronze working and are now going on slave raids to feed and staff their growing empire.
Yes, and is not the first time it happens. When the villagers offer you their meagre collection of copper pieces to protect them from the impending raid, you have less than three days to go all seven samurai on those minotaurs.
EDIT 1: Has anyone done a good 'Seven Samurai' style adventure where you have to prepare the village to defend itself agaist the threat or is that simply too big a battle for the rules?
EDIT 2: I guess 'Fortress of the Stone Giants' starts out like that, eh?
If you mean written adventure, no. But in college I played in a "Seven Samurai" scenario in which a small party of heroes (four, I think, with two archers) and a few retainer npcs defended a town that was supposedly just a stop on our real adventure (from point A to B) from bandits, including initial fights and then the organization of the town in its own defense. The DM had to draw a pretty detailed map of the village. I hadn't seen the movie at the time, and was taken with how successfully the DM had evoked the feel of it, and how closely we had recreated a story only he had seen without any railroading. I'll always associate the movie with that adventure. A couple of my then favorite npcs died in the great final battle, and we raised a monument. Wish I could remember the name of that town...
Against minotaurs could be tough!
EDIT: I should make explicit that the game was under 1e, with of course some additional rules support.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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If you mean written adventure, no. But in college I played in a "Seven Samurai" scenario in which a small party of heroes (four, I think, with two archers) and a few retainer npcs defended a town that was supposedly just a stop on our real adventure (from point A to B) from bandits, including initial fights and then the organization of the town in its own defense. The DM had to draw a pretty detailed map of the village. I hadn't seen the movie at the time, and was taken with how successfully the DM had evoked the feel of it, and how closely we had recreated a story only he had seen without any railroading. I'll always associate the movie with that adventure. A couple of my then favorite npcs died in the great final battle, and we raised a monument. Wish I could remember the name of that town...
Against minotaurs could be tough!
EDIT: I should make explicit that the game was under 1e, with of course some additional rules support.
I can imagine some extra rules would be needed. In the movie, the samurai establish traps and train villagers. I think the training of villagers would require some kind of leadership or charisma check. How many of these farmers can be turned into warriors within one week?
The "turn the villagers into warriors" was a relatively small part of our approach. If we trained any villagers in anything, it was probably the bow, and the DM handled the whole thing by narrative, operating in the relatively rules-poor context of the time. Our sense of noblese-oblige would have kept us from involving the villagers in hand-to-hand combat as much as possible.
We had set up various traps, hazards, and herding devices that the villagers operated. My memory says that there were some villagers who were slingers from whatever their profession was (shepherds?) and we posted them on a roof that was positioned so as to reduce their risk.
The "turn the villagers into warriors" was a relatively small part of our approach. If we trained any villagers in anything, it was probably the bow, and the DM handled the whole thing by narrative, operating in the relatively rules-poor context of the time. Our sense of noblese-oblige would have kept us from involving the villagers in hand-to-hand combat as much as possible.
We had set up various traps, hazards, and herding devices that the villagers operated. My memory says that there were some villagers who were slingers from whatever their profession was (shepherds?) and we posted them on a roof that was positioned so as to reduce their risk.
You could model it off the assault on Farshore from Tides of Dread.