I'm building an Archer Bard and I'm feeling feat-starved looking at all those archery feats. What do you(pl) think of dipping one level of fighter for Longbow Proficiency and one extra feat? Is it worth losing 4 skill points and one spellcasting level?
The longbow is all of 1 extra point of damage on average. It's not terribly worth it, imo.
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I feel kinda cheesy even recommending this, but it is an optimization thread. I made an archer bard for Pathfinder Society, and I came up with this whole back story about being a freed slave in the Andoran faction. While looking up traits to decide what would suit my character, I noticed that the Andoran faction trait Hunter's Eye grants longbow proficiency. Needless to say, I went with it.
I really would feel like a munchkin if I'd chosen the faction just for that trait. But since I'd already come up with the back story and picked the faction, I figured I might as well go with it.
As Exle pointed out, though, fighters not only get the proficiency, but also an extra feat, so a single level dip might be worth it as a way to get a longbow. But it would slow down your bard progression, just for 1 extra point of damage on average. Although a human bard with a level dip in fighter could have a composite longbow, point blank shot, precise shot, and rapid shot all by level 2. That's pretty potent at that low a level. Heck, take fighter at level 1, and you can have all 3 feats at first level, before starting on your bard levels. But that would mean no bardly stuff up front.
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Here are Bard Archers with and without one fighter level. 20 pt buy, Core+APG. Levels 1 and 2:
Human Archery Bard 1, 20 pt buy, Core+APG
14 Str
17 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
10 HP (d8 +1 con, +1 favored class)
16 AC (+3 Studded Leather, +3 Dex)
Saves:
+1 Fort (+1 con)
+5 Ref (+3 dex, +2 class)
+1 Will (-1 Wis, +2 class)
sKILLs (8 Ranks)
6 Perform: Oratory (1 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
5 Perform: Dance (1 rank, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
6 Use Magic Device (1 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
3 Perception (1 rank, +3 class, -1 wis)
6 Stealth (1 rank, +3 class, +3 dex, -1 Armor Check)
5 Spellcraft (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int)
6 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
•Cantrips known:
Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message
•1st lvl: (2 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep
Attacks vs. AC 13
•Shortbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot– (Not Firing into Melee)
+2/+2 (+3 dex, +1 point blank, -2 rapid shot)
Dmg 1d6+1
DPR 4.95
Firing into Melee, with Rapidshot: DPR 2.97
Average: 3.96
•Longsword (Two hands)
+2 (+2 str)
d8+3 (+3 str)
DPR: 4.125
Attacks vs AC 13
Shortbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot– (Not Firing into Melee): DPR 4.95
Firing into melee: DPR 2.97. Average DPR: 3.96.
Longsword DPR: 4.125
Magic •1st lvl: (2 per day) Known: Grease, Sleep
14 Str
17 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
11 HP (d10, +1 con)
18 AC (+5 Scale Mail, +3 dex)
Saves:
+3 Fort (+1 con, +2 class)
+3 Ref (+3 dex)
-1 Will (-1 Wis)
sKILLs (3 Ranks)
5 Know: Dungeoneering (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int)
5 Know: Engineering (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int)
0 Perception (1 rank, -1 wis)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
Attacks vs. AC 13
•Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot
to hit: +3/+3 (+1 BAB, +3 dex, +1 Point Blank, -2 Rapidshot)
Dmg d8+1
DPR 6.655
•Greataxe
+3 (+1 BAB, +2 str)
d12+3 (+3 str)
DPR 5.748
Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot (Has precise shot): DPR: 6.655
Greataxe DPR 5.748
Magic: none
14 Str
17 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
16.5 HP (d8, +1 con, +1 favored class)
17 AC (+4 M.Work Chain Shirt, +3 Dex)
Saves:
+1 Fort (+1 con)
+6 Ref (+3 dex, +3 class)
+2 Will (-1 Wis, +3 class)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
sKILLs
7 Perform: Oratory (2 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
6 Perform: Dance (2 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
7 Use Magic Device (2 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
4 Perception (2 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
7 Stealth (2 ranks, +3 class, +3 dex, -1 Armor Check)
6 Spellcraft (2 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
6 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
•Cantrips known:
Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand
•1st lvl: (3 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image
Attacks vs. AC 14
•Masterwork Shortbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot– (Not Firing into Melee)
+4/+4 (+1 BAB, +3 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 Masterwork, -2 Rapid Shot)
1d6+1 (+1 point blank)
DPR 5.455
Firing into Melee, with Rapidshot: DPR 3.456
Average: 4.456
•Longsword (Two hands)
+3 (+1 BAB, +2 str)
d8+3 (+3 str)
DPR: 4.125
lvl 2 1000 gold
375 mwork shortbow
250 mwork Chain Shirt
Attacks vs. AC 14
•Masterwork Shortbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot– (Not Firing into Melee)
DPR 5.455. Firing into melee DPR 3.456. Average 4.456 DPR.
•1st lvl: (3 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image
14 Str
17 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
17.5 HP
17 AC (+4 M.Work Chain Shirt, +3 dex)
Saves:
+3 Fort (+1 con, +2 class)
+5 Ref (+3 dex, +2 class)
+1 Will (-1 Wis, +2 class)
sKILLs
6 Perform: Oratory (1 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
5 Perform: Dance (1 rank, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
6 Use Magic Device (1 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
4 Perception (2 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
6 Stealth (1 ranks, +3 class, +3 dex, -1 Armor Check)
5 Spellcraft (1 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
6 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
5 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
5 Know: Engineer. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
•Cantrips known:
Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message
•1st lvl: (2 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep
Attacks vs. AC 14
•M.Work Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot
to hit: +4/+4 (+1 BAB, +3 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 masterwork, -2 Rapidshot)
Dmg d8+1 (+1 point blank)
DPR 6.655
•Greatsword
+3 (+1 BAB, +2 str)
2d6+3 (+3 str)
DPR 5.5
Gold: 1000
400 Masterwork Composite Longbow
250 Masterwork Chain Shirt
50 Greatsword
Attacks vs. AC 14
•M.Work Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot: DPR 6.655
Greatsword: DPR 5.5
Magic: •1st lvl: (2 per day) Known: Grease, Sleep
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Comparison of Archer Bard, with and without 1 level of fighter. Levels 3 and 4:
Human Archery Bard 3, 20 pt buy, Core+APG
14 Str
17 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
23 HP (d8, +1 con, +1 favored class)
18 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +3 Dex)
Saves:
+2 Fort (+1 con, +1 class)
+6 Ref (+3 dex, +3 class)
+2 Will (-1 Wis, +3 class)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
sKILLs (Inspire Competence, +2)
8 Perform: Oratory (3 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
7 Perform: Dance (3 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
8 Use Magic Device (3 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
5 Perception (3 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
8 Stealth (3 ranks, +3 class, +3 dex, -1 Armor Check)
7 Spellcraft (3 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
6 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
•Cantrips known:
Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
Attacks vs. AC 15
•M.work Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot
+5/+5 (+2 BAB, +3 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 Masterwork, -2 Rapid Shot)
Dmg 1d6+3 (+2 str, +1 point blank)
DPR 7.15
•Longsword
+5 (+2 BAB, +2 str, +1 m.work)
d8+3 (+3 str)
DPR: 4.538
lvl 3 3000 gold
525: mwork composite shortbow str +2
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
750: Wand
320: M.work Longsword
Attacks vs AC 15
M.work Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot: DPR 7.15
Longsword DPR: 4.538
Magic: •1st lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
Human Archery Fighter/Bard 1/2, 20 pt buy, Core+APG
14 Str
17 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
24 HP
18 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +3 Dex)
Saves:
+3 Fort (+1 con, +2 class)
+6 Ref (+3 dex, +3 class)
+2 Will (-1 Wis, +3 class)
sKILLs
7 Perform: Oratory (2 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
6 Perform: Dance (2 rank, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
7 Use Magic Device (2 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
5 Perception (3 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
7 Stealth (2 ranks, +3 class, +3 dex, -1 Armor Check)
6 Spellcraft (2 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
6 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Engineer. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike
•Cantrips known:
Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand
•1st lvl: (3 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image
Attacks vs 15
•M.Work Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike
to hit: +5/+5 (+2 BAB, +3 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 masterwork, -2 Rapidshot)
Dmg d8+5 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +1 Arcane strike)
DPR 11.495
•Greatsword
+5: (+2 BAB, +2 str, +1 masterwork)
2d6+4: (+3 str, +1 Arcane str.)
DPR: 6.655
lvl 3 3000 gold
550: mwork composite longbow str +2
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
750: Wand
350: Masterwork Greatsword
Attacks vs AC 15
•M.Work Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike: DPR: 11.495
•Greatsword DPR: 6.655
Magic: •1st lvl: (3 per day) Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image
Human Archery Bard 4, 20 pt buy, Core+APG
14 Str
18 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
29.5 HP (d8, +1 con, +1 favored class)
19 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +4 Dex)
Saves:
+3 Fort (+1 con, +1 class, +1 cloak)
+9 Ref (+4 dex, +4 class, +1 cloak)
+4 Will (-1 Wis, +4 class, +1 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
sKILLs (Inspire Competence, +2)
9 Perform: Oratory (4 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
8 Perform: Dance (4 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
9 Use Magic Device (4 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
6 Perception (4 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
10 Stealth (4 ranks, +3 class, +4 dex, -1 Armor Check)
8 Spellcraft (4 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
7 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (2 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust
Attacks vs AC 17
•+1 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot
+7/+7 (+3 BAB, +4 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 Enhanced, -2 Rapid Shot)
Dmg 1d6+4: (+2 str +1 point blank, +1 enhanced)
DPR 9.075
•M.work Longsword
+6 to hit: (+3 BAB, +2 str, +1 masterwork)
d8+3 dmg: (+3 str)
DPR: 4.125
lvl 4 6000 gold
2225: +1 composite shortbow (2 str)
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
315: M.Work Longsword
Attacks vs AC 17
•+1 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot DPR: 9.075
•Longsword DPR: 4.125
Magic:
•1st lvl: (4 per day) Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (2 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust
14 Str
18 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
30.5 HP
19 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +4 Dex)
Saves:
+5 Fort (+1 con, +3 class, +1 cloak)
+8 Ref (+4 dex, +3 class, +1 cloak)
+3 Will (-1 Wis, +3 class, +1 cloak)
sKILLs (Inspire Competence, +2)
8 Perform: Oratory (3 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
7 Perform: Dance (3 rank, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
8 Use Magic Device (3 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
6 Perception (4 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
8 Stealth (3 ranks, +3 class, +3 dex, -1 Armor Check)
7 Spellcraft (3 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
6 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
6 Know: Engineer. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +1 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike
Attacks vs AC 17
•+1 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike
to hit: +7/+7 (+3 BAB, +4 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 Enhance, -2 Rapidshot)
Dmg d8+5: (+2 str, +1 point blank, +1 enhance, +1 arcane strike)
DPR: 11.495
•M.Work Greatsword, Arcane strike
+6, (+3 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
2d6+4 (+3 str, +1 Arcane Str.)
DPR 6.05
•Cantrips known:
Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
lvl 4 6000 gold
2250: +1 composite longbow (2 str)
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
350: M.Work Greatsword
Attacks vs AC 17
•+1 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike: DPR 11.495
•M.Work Greatsword, Arcane strike: DPR 6.05
Magic: 1st lvl: (4 per day) Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
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Comparison of Archer Bard with and without 1 level of fighter. Levels 5 and 6.
14 Str
18 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
36 HP (d8, +1 con, +1 favored class)
21 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +4 Dex, +1 ring of prot., +1 Amulet of Nat armor)
Saves:
+3 Fort (+1 con, +1 class, +1 cloak)
+9 Ref (+4 dex, +4 class, +1 cloak)
+4 Will (-1 Wis, +4 class, +1 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
+2 vs. Charm & Fear under Inspire Courage
sKILLs (Inspire Competence +2, Lore Master 1/day)
10 Perform: Oratory (5 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
9 Perform: Dance (5 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
10 Use Magic Device (5 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
7 Perception (5 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
11 Stealth (5 ranks, +3 class, +4 dex, -1 Armor Check)
9 Spellcraft (5 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
8 Escape Artist (2 ranks, +3 class, +4 dex, -1 Armor Check)
7 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (3 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility
Attacks vs AC 18
•+1 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str.
+7/+7 (+3 BAB, +4 dex, +1 point blank, +1 enhanced, -2 Rapidshot)
Dmg 1d6+6 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +1 enhanced, +2 arcane strike)
DPR 10.45
With Inspire courage (14 round/day, sans starting rounds): 15.18 DPR
•M.work Longsword
+6 to hit: (+3 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
d8+5 dmg: (+3 str, +2 Arcane Strike)
DPR: 4.703
lvl 5 10,500 gold
2225: +1 composite shortbow (2 str)
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
2000: Ring of Protection +1
2000: Amulet of Nat Armor +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
315: M.Work Longsword
Attacks vs AC 18
•+1 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str. :DPR 10.45
With Inspire courage (14 round/day, sans starting rounds): 15.18 DPR
•M.work Longsword: DPR: 4.703
Magic:
•1st lvl: (5 per day) Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (3 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility
14 Str
18 Dex
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
37 HP
19 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +4 Dex)
Saves:
+5 Fort (+1 con, +3 class, +1 cloak)
+8 Ref (+4 dex, +3 class, +1 cloak)
+3 Will (-1 Wis, +3 class, +1 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
sKILLs (Inspire Competence, +2)
9 Perform: Oratory (5 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
8 Perform: Dance (4 rank, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
9 Use Magic Device (4 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
7 Perception (5 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
10 Stealth (4 ranks, +3 class, +4 dex, -1 Armor Check)
8 Spellcraft (4 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
7 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Engineer. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
Attacks vs AC 18
•+1 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
to hit: +6/+6 (+4 BAB, +4 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 Enhance, -2 Rapidshot, -2 Deadly Aim)
Dmg d8+9 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +1 enhanced, +4 deadly aim, +1 arcane str.)
DPR: 13.455
•M.Work Greatsword, arcane strike
to hit +7, (+4 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
dmg: 2d6+4 (+3 str, +1 Arcane Str.)
DPR 6.05
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (2 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust
lvl 5 10,500 gold
2250: +1 composite longbow (2 str)
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
2000: Ring of Protection +1
2000: Amulet of Nat Armor +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
350: M.Work Greatsword
Attacks vs AC 18
•+1 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
DPR 13.455
•M.Work Greatsword, arcane strike: DPR 6.05
Magic
•1st lvl: (4 per day) Known: Grease, Sleep, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (2 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust
14 Str
20 Dex (with +2 belt)
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
42.5 HP (d8, +1 con, +1 favored class)
21 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +4 Dex, +1 ring of prot., +1 Amulet of Nat armor)
Saves:
+4 Fort (+1 con, +2 class, +1 cloak)
+11 Ref (+5 dex, +5 class, +1 cloak)
+5 Will (-1 Wis, +5 class, +1 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
+2 vs. Charm & Fear under Inspire Courage
sKILLs (Inspire Competence +2, Lore Master 1/day)
11 Perform: Oratory (6 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
10 Perform: Dance (6 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
•Versatile Performance: Acrobatics, Fly
7 Performance: Act (2 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
11 Use Magic Device (6 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
8 Perception (6 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
13 Stealth (6 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex, -1 Armor Check)
10 Spellcraft (6 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
9 Escape Artist (2 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex, -1 Armor Check)
8 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
Attacks vs. AC 19
•+1 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str.
+9/+9 (+4 BAB, +5 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 Enhanced, -2 Rapid Shot)
Dmg 1d6+6 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +1 enhanced, +2 arcane strike)
DPR: 11.495
With Inspire courage (16 round/day, sans starting rounds): 16.445 DPR
•M.work Longsword
+7 to hit (+4 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
d8+5 dmg: (+3 str, +2 Arcane Strike)
DPR: 4.703
lvl 6 16,000 gold
4000 +2 Belt of incredible dex
2225: +1 composite shortbow (2 str)
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
2000: Ring of Protection +1
2000: Amulet of Nat Armor +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
315: M.Work Longsword
Attacks vs. AC 19
•+1 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str.: DPR: 11.495
With Inspire courage (16 round/day, sans starting rounds): 16.445 DPR
•M.work Longsword DPR: 4.703
Magic:
•1st lvl: (5 per day) Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (4 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
14 Str
20 Dex (with +2 belt)
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
43.5 HP
21 AC (+5 Chain Shirt+1, +4 Dex, +1 ring of prot., +1 Amulet of Nat armor)
Saves:
+5 Fort (+1 con, +3 class, +1 cloak)
+10 Ref (+5 dex, +4 class, +1 cloak)
+4 Will (-1 Wis, +4 class, +1 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
+2 vs. Charm & Fear under Inspire Courage
sKILLs (Inspire Competence +2, Lore Master 1/day)
10 Perform: Oratory (6 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
9 Perform: Dance (5 rank, +3 class, +2 cha, -1 Armor Check)
10 Use Magic Device (5 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
8 Perception (6 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
11 Stealth (5 ranks, +3 class, +4 dex, -1 Armor Check)
9 Spellcraft (5 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
9 Escape Artist (2 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex, -1 Armor Check)
7 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Engineer. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
7 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +2 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (3 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility
Attacks vs. AC 19
•+1 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
to hit: +7/+7 (+4 BAB, +5 dex, +1 Point Blank, +1 Enhance, -2 Rapidshot, -2 Deadly Aim)
Dmg: d8+10 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +1 enhanced, +4 deadly aim, +2 arcane str.)
DPR: 14.355
With Inspire courage (14 round/day, sans starting rounds): 19.965 DPR
•M.Work Greatsword, Arcane Str.
to hit +7, (+4 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
2d6+5: (+3 str, +2 Arcane Str.)
DPR: 5.94
lvl 6 16,000 gold
4000 +2 Belt of incredible dex
2250: +1 composite shortbow (2 str)
1100: +1 Chain Shirt
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
2000: Ring of Protection +1
2000: Amulet of Nat Armor +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
350: M.Work Greatsword
Attacks vs. AC 19
•+1 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
DPR: 14.355
•M.Work Greatsword, Arcane Str.: DPR: 5.94
Magic:
•1st lvl: (5 per day) Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (3 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility
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Comparison of Archer Bard with and without 1 level of fighter: levels 7 and 8.
14 Str
20 Dex (with +2 belt)
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
49 HP (d8, +1 con, +1 favored class)
22 AC (+6 Mithral Shirt+2, +5 Dex, +1 ring of prot., )
Saves:
+4 Fort (+1 con, +2 class, +1 cloak)
+11 Ref (+5 dex, +5 class, +1 cloak)
+5 Will (-1 Wis, +5 class, +1 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
+2 vs. Charm & Fear under Inspire Courage
sKILLs (Inspire Competence +3, Lore Master 1/day)
12 Perform: Oratory (7 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
12 Perform: Dance (7 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Acrobatics, Fly
8 Performance: Act (3 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
12 Use Magic Device (7 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
9 Perception (7 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
15 Stealth (7 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
11 Spellcraft (7 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
11 Escape Artist (3 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
8 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person, Cure Light
•2nd lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
•3rd lvl: (1 per day)
Known: Haste, Confusion
Attacks vs. AC 20
•+2 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str., Deadly Aim
+9/+9/ (+6/+1 BAB, +5 dex, +1 Point Blank, +2 Enhanced, -2 Rapid Shot, -2 Deadly Aim)
Dmg 1d6+11 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +2 enhanced, +2 arcane strike, +4 Deadly Aim)
DPR: 15.95
With Inspire courage (18 round/day): 21.78 DPR
•M.work Longsword
+8 to hit (+5 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
d8+5 dmg: (+3 str, +2 Arcane Strike)
DPR: 4.703
lvl 7 23,500 gold
8225: +2 composite shortbow (2 str)
5100: +2 mithral shirt
4000 +2 Belt of incredible dex
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
2000: Ring of Protection +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
315: M.Work Longsword
Attacks vs. AC 20
•+2 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str., Deadly Aim
DPR: 15.95
With Inspire courage (18 round/day): 21.78 DPR
Magic:
•1st lvl: (5 per day) Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person, Cure Light
•2nd lvl: (4 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
•3rd lvl: (1 per day) Known: Haste, Confusion
14 Str
20 Dex (with +2 belt)
13 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
50 HP
22 AC (+6 Mithral Shirt+2, +5 Dex, +1 ring of prot.)
Saves:
+6 Fort (+1 con, +4 class, +1 cloak)
+11 Ref (+5 dex, +5 class, +1 cloak)
+5 Will (-1 Wis, +5 class, +1 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
+2 vs. Charm & Fear under Inspire Courage
sKILLs (Inspire Competence +2, Lore Master 1/day)
12 Perform: Oratory (7 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
11 Perform: Dance (6 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Acrobatics, Fly
7 Perform: Act (2 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
11 Use Magic Device (6 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
9 Perception (7 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
14 Stealth (6 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
10 Spellcraft (6 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
10 Escape Artist (2 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
7 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Engineer. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus: Longbow
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
Attacks vs. AC 20
•+2 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly, Aim Weapon Focus
to hit: +10/+10 (+5 BAB, +5 dex, +1 Point Blank, +2 Enhance, +1 Weapon Focus, -2 Rapidshot, -2 Deadly Aim)
Dmg: d8+11 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +2 enhanced, +4 deadly aim, +2 arcane str.)
DPR: 18.755
With Inspire courage (16 round/day, sans starting rounds): 25.025 DPR
•M.Work Greatsword, Arcane Str.
to hit +8, (+5 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
2d6+5: (+3 str, +2 Arcane Str.)
DPR: 5.94
lvl 7 23,500 gold
8250: +2 composite Longbow (2 str)
5100: +2 mithral shirt
4000 +2 Belt of incredible dex
1000: Cloak of Resistance +1
2000: Ring of Protection +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
320: M.Work Greatsword
Attacks vs. AC 20
•+2 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus
DPR: 18.755
With Inspire courage (16 round/day, sans starting rounds): 25.025 DPR
Magic:
•1st lvl: (5 per day) Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person
•2nd lvl: (4 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
14 Str
20 Dex (with +2 belt)
14 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
62.5 HP (8 + 7•4.5 + 7 favored class + 16 Con)
23 AC (+6 Mithral Shirt+2, +5 Dex, +1 ring of prot., +1 Amulet of Nat. Armor)
Saves:
+6 Fort (+2 con, +2 class, +2 cloak)
+13 Ref (+5 dex, +6 class, +2 cloak)
+7 Will (-1 Wis, +6 class, +2 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
+2 vs. Charm & Fear under Inspire Courage
sKILLs (Inspire Competence +3, Lore Master 1/day), +1 Favored Class
13 Perform: Oratory (8 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
13 Perform: Dance (8 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Acrobatics, Fly
10 Performance: Act (5 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
13 Use Magic Device (8 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
10 Perception (8 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
16 Stealth (8 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
12 Spellcraft (8 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
11 Escape Artist (3 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
6 Ride (1 rank, +5 dex)
9 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
9 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
9 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
9 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
9 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
9 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
9 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
9 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +4 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person, Cure Light
•2nd lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
•3rd lvl: (2 per day)
Known: Haste, Confusion, Tiny Hut
Attacks vs. AC 21
•+2 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str., Deadly Aim
+11/+11/+6 (+6/+1 BAB, +5 dex, +1 Point Blank, +2 Enhanced, +1 Bracers, -2 Rapid Shot, -2 Deadly Aim)
Dmg 1d6+11 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +2 enhanced, +2 arcane strike, +4 Deadly Aim)
DPR: 22.33
With Inspire courage (20 round/day): 30.855 DPR (23.595 in starting round)
lvl 8 33,000 gold
8225: +2 composite shortbow (2 str)
5100: +2 mithral shirt
4000 +2 Belt of incredible dex
5000: Bracers of Archery, Lesser
4000: Cloak of Resistance +2
2000: Ring of Protection +1
2000: Amulet of natural armor +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
315: M.Work Longsword
Attacks vs. AC 21
•+2 Composite Shortbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Str., Deadly Aim
DPR: 22.33
With Inspire courage (20 round/day): 30.855 DPR (23.595 in starting round)
Magic:
•1st lvl: (5 per day) Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person, Cure Light
•2nd lvl: (5 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
•3rd lvl: (2 per day) Known: Haste, Confusion, Tiny Hut
14 Str
20 Dex (with +2 belt)
14 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
14 Cha
64.5 HP (10 + 7*4.5 + 8*2 + 7 Favored Class)
22 AC (+6 Mithral Shirt+2, +5 Dex, +1 ring of prot., )
Saves:
+8 Fort (+2 con, +4 class, +2 cloak)
+12 Ref (+5 dex, +5 class, +2 cloak)
+6 Will (-1 Wis, +5 class, +2 cloak)
Well-Versed:+4 bonus on saving throws made against bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
+2 vs. Charm & Fear under Inspire Courage
sKILLs (Inspire Competence +3, Lore Master 1/day)
62 Ranks: (2 Fight + 7*6 Bard + 8 int + 8 Human + 1 Favored Class)
13 Perform: Oratory (8 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Diplomacy, Sense Motive
13 Perform: Dance (8 rank, +3 class, +2 cha)
•Versatile Performance: Acrobatics, Fly
9 Perform: Act (4 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
12 Use Magic Device (7 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha)
10 Perception (8 ranks, +3 class, -1 wis)
16 Stealth (8 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
11 Spellcraft (7 ranks, +3 class, +1 int)
10 Escape Artist (2 ranks, +3 class, +5 dex)
8 Know: Nature (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Arcana (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Planes (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Religion (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Dungeon. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Engineer. (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: History (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Local (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
8 Know: Geography (1 rank, +3 class, +1 int, +3 Bardic Knowledge)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus: Longbow
•Cantrips known:
Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mending, Message, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
•1st lvl: (5 per day)
Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person, Cure Light
•2nd lvl: (4 per day)
Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
•3rd lvl: (1 per day)
Known: Haste, Confusion
Attacks vs. AC 21
•+2 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim , Weapon Focus
to hit: +12/+12/+7 (+6/+1 BAB, +5 dex, +1 Point Blank, +2 Enhance, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Bracers, -2 Rapidshot, -2 Deadly Aim)
Dmg: d8+11 (+2 str, +1 point blank, +2 enhanced, +4 deadly aim, +2 arcane str.)
DPR: 26.4275
With Inspire courage (18 round/day): 35.613 DPR (26.95 in starting round)
•M.Work Greatsword, Arcane Str.
to hit +8, (+5 BAB, +2 str, +1 M.work)
2d6+5: (+3 str, +2 Arcane Str.)
DPR: 5.94
lvl 8 33,000 gold
8250: +2 composite longbow (2 str)
5100: +2 mithral shirt
4000 +2 Belt of incredible dex
5000: Bracers of Archery, Lesser
4000: Cloak of Resistance +2
2000: Ring of Protection +1
2000: Amulet of natural armor +1
1800: Efficient Quiver
320: M.Work Greatsword
Attacks vs. AC 21
•+2 Composite Longbow (2 Str), Point Blank Shot, Rapidshot, Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus: DPR: 26.4275
With Inspire courage (18 round/day): 35.613 DPR (26.95 in starting round)
Magic:
•1st lvl: (5 per day) Known: Grease, Summon Monster I, Silent Image, Charm Person, Cure Light
•2nd lvl: (4 per day) Known: Soundburst, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics
•3rd lvl: (1 per day) Known: Haste, Confusion
So, i will play a controler bard soon, replacing my dead character on lvl 12.
We are developing a house rule to use weapon finesse without the feat, just with applieable weapons, or i will trade the 4 race points human ability "skilled" with "nimble attacks" and "adaptability" from the advanced race guide. It´s a mix between house ruling and legal costumisation.
First 2 lvls will be Lore warden Fighter archetype,
1.Weapon Focus Whip. Combat Reflexes, Lingering Performance
2.Whip Mastery, Combat Expertise
Then follow imrpoved trip, greater trip, improved whip mastery and dazzling display.
I´m not decided what to take then.
Spellsong/Harmonic Spell/Extra Performance are on the list.
The question is, what are the benefits of spellsong and harmonic spell?
I guess im not aware of all the consequences.
Then voice of the sybill and discordant voice seem like nice stuff too.
Also the metamagic feats concussice spell and toppling spell seem appealing to me.
Maybe someone else knows better about magic stuff than me and could give me some hints?
Toppling Spell does not work with sonic damage. I wouldn't recommend it.
Spellsong has two effects. The first is that it lets you disguise your spellcasting as a Perform check. If they do not beat your Perform check, they do not realize you are casting a spell. The second is that it lets you use your bardic performance rounds to maintain a spell of type concentration (like Silent Image) with your bardic performance rounds. This means you do not have to spend the standard action that round maintaining the spell. Effectively, you maintain it as a move action.
Harmonic Spell is fairly self explanatory. If you are maintaining a performance, and cast a spell, you don't use up a round of bardic performance that round. Plus you can switch performances as a swift action when casting a spell. This is useful once you can start performances as a move action. For example, you end your performance of Inspire courage, and start Dirge of Doom as a move action. You cast your spell that requires a save (that -2 helps!), and then use your swift action to start Inspire Courage again.
Sounds all nice.
So with harminc spell and lingering performance i can perform 4 rounds at the cost of one? 1. round start, 2. cast spell, 3. +4. lingering performance?
And what about concussice spell?
I have one free feat and im thinking if i should give up combat reflexes and/or dazzling display perhaps.
Also, Dirge of Doom does the job well.
I'd like to point out one small flaw in Trent's instruments.
Percussion being "instrument based".
While you can use an instrument, what about simply clapping, or even just using cheek drums?
I would totally suggest beguiling gift and memory lapse.
It would end up going.. SURPRISE ROUND! stab someone. Memory laspe them. SURPRISE ROUND!
Note to readers: Welcome to my first Pathfinder Handbook, the guide to Bards. I would like to remind all readers that I cannot edit this post. Mistakes, additions, or any other kind of edit will never be seen in this post.
However, please take a look at this Google Document of Treantmonk's Guide to Bards which not only has lots of nice pretty pictures, and different colors, but will also be edited as required, so, the longer this post is here, the more reason you have to click the link, rather than read the rest of this post here.
My only request to you the reader is to please comment. Do so by replying to this post. I will be checking replies regularly, and responding to any questions or comments regularly as well. If you like what I've done, let me know. If you don't, by all means let me know that as well. Let me know what you agree with, and what you don't (but don't forget to tell me why I'm wrong!). I appreciate all replies, whether positive or negative, so thank you in advance for replying.
So, without further ado:
The Bard is often a class with misunderstood abilities. He is not a martial class, not a cannon, not a primary caster, not a primary healer. However, too often is the term "JoAT" used (Jack of All Trades), when in truth, the Bard's ability to do "fill any role required" in a party is also often overstated. If your Bard's job is to fill in for a missing party fighter, I recommend having your replacement character ready (probably a fighter type?). So exactly what is the Bard supposed to be doing? How is the Bard going to be a class that fills a meaningful role in the party? What role do you fill?
I hear the following comments often: "The Bard is good at what he does.", or "The Bard is an excellent 5th party member". The first comment of course leads to the question "Exactly what does he do? Are...
Why exactly should a half-elf bard not make use of having two favored classes?
What is the best first feat to choose for a controller bard build?
I looked at weapon focus and Exotic weapon proficiency, but at first level you cannot have them because your BAB is 0.
Improved Initiative is always good, if not great.
Thanks Ironic. I looked at it and probably should have taken it, but got scared and took dodge. I am all about trying to get great with the whip or net like everyone recommends, but they are missing that a bard has no BAB at 1st level.
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Sounds all nice.
So with harminc spell and lingering performance i can perform 4 rounds at the cost of one? 1. round start, 2. cast spell, 3. +4. lingering performance?And what about concussice spell?
I have one free feat and im thinking if i should give up combat reflexes and/or dazzling display perhaps.
Remember Lingering Performance ends as soon as you start a new one.
EDIT:Remember the Lingering Performance ends as soon as you start a new one.
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This is great advice. I have never played bard before. Half-elf bard. I decided to give it a try. My character has a controller role, but I am having troble resisting the urge to grab combat feats. I am tempted to multiclass with fighter as I have two favored classes. I am looking to craft constructs at later levls to use as minions. Does this sound feasible? @Magikot, I like the spring attack tree as well.
does extra performance come in handy?
Does the scorpion whip work just like the whip when it comes to feats? Can i poison it or apply sleeping potion to it?
So, has the guide been updated to include all the new spells/archetypes/options that can be taken now or no? Will it ever be updated?
Writer: No. And probably not, as far as I know.
I plan on doing that eventually though.
Who recommended avoiding combat feats, anyways?
Writer: No. And probably not, as far as I know.
I plan on doing that eventually though.
oh, okay : /
Kool, looking forward to it.
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For fun, I checked the average CMD of 19 CR 5 creatures. Most of these were iconic creatures, like trolls and elementals. I didn't keep track of the names, since this was a quick and dirty thing.
The average CMD of those is 25.6. Round down for 25.
At level 5, the bard will have BAB +3. With inspire courage up, that's another +2.
Using the stat spread that Treantmonk recommended for the controller, we can assume about 16 strength. That's another +3. We can also assume a +1 whip, for another +1.
At this point, we probably have Improved Trip. That's another +2. Maybe weapon focus too, for another +1. So a total of...
3 (BAB) + 2 (IC) + 3 (strength) + 1 (enhancement) +2 (IT) + 1 (WF) = +12.
You'll need to roll a 13 or higher to trip the average monstrous enemy at this level, giving you a 40% chance of success, after devoting all of your feats to it. You'll trip the mooks of this level easily enough, but will have difficulty with monsters.
Against 0 HD creatures with class levels, you're looking at something around a target 22-23 CMD for full BAB classes, 15-20 for 3/4ths BAB classes, and 12-15 for 1/2 BAB classes.
So your chances are *much* better against most class leveled enemies. But still s%$~e against monsters and it's a 50%/50% for full BAB classes (aka: the ones who are most likely to be up in the melee).
Then at 7th level, you get Dazzling Display, letting you do a full-round action to intimidate your enemies. Which is great, until level 8. When you get the same deal, except it's a move action. And there's no save (even though Dazzling Display is basically auto-success, Dirge of Doom is auto-success). However, it is true that Dazzling Display will work with Inspire Courage, which is a pretty sweet deal.
Then at level 11, you may as well give up on tripping enemies with any frequency because half of them should be flying, and the other half have such high CMDs that a 3/4ths has little chance of succeeding. We're talking low 30s to low 40s as CMDs, if they can even be tripped.
So until convinced otherwise, I cannot really recommend the controller, as presented by Treantmonk, bard. Circumstances special to your game can change this, of course. Will you mostly or only be facing humanoids with class levels and 0 HD? Well then it's a decent decision. Are you going to be ending before level 11? Then it's not a horrible decision.
Does it fit your character? Then it's a great decision.
Lingering Performance is nice for the normal bard once you no longer need an expensive action to start it again. Until then, it's quite a pain if combat is taking longer than 3 rounds and you need to use Inspire Courage. That's assuming "turning on, then off". If you let the performance go for a round or two, then it's more useful, since if combat is routinely taking longer than 4-5 rounds, you have greater issues than bardic performance saving :)
Extra Performance always works well, but obviously there are better feat choices.
If you are an archaeologist, Lingering Performance should be your first feat.
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3 (BAB) + 2 (IC) + 3 (strength) + 1 (enhancement) +2 (IT) + 1 (WF) = +12.
Ehm, you forgot, the whip or any other weapon with the trip ability gives you another +2 on trip. Also if you are planning to make a controller take heirloom weapon for another +2 trip.
Makes +16 and you only need a 9. Looks different doesnt it?
With greater trip you stay viable.
Also the society field guide dueling weapon property gives you any weapon enhancement bonus doubled on top of the bonus. With +1 that makes already +3 and its only a +1 enhancement. Best for such a build.
If you take weapon finesse and only bump DEX you are more focused.
Allows you to take a bow vs flying creatures and not be completely useless. (a whip and lunge can give you 20' reach in the air too, tripping ones wings)
On top of that stack agile maneuvers (not needed with weapon finesse) with furys fall. Double your DEX for trips and high DEX for AC sounds good.
Ehm, you forgot, the whip or any other weapon with the trip ability gives you another +2 on trip. Also if you are planning to make a controller take heirloom weapon for another +2 trip.
Trip weapons do not grant +2 to trip attempts. You're thinking of Disarm or Sunder weapon properties.
I hope I made it clear enough that I was speaking of the version Treantmonk posted.
Also, you cannot trip flying creatures. Explicitly.
Perhaps you can spend even more resources to perpetually play catch up, Chasing down bonuses from multiple disparate splatbooks. I'm sure you can push back the point when tripping becomes useless.
Ehm, you forgot, the whip or any other weapon with the trip ability gives you another +2 on trip. Also if you are planning to make a controller take heirloom weapon for another +2 trip.Trip weapons do not grant +2 to trip attempts. You're thinking of Disarm or Sunder weapon properties.
I hope I made it clear enough that I was speaking of the version Treantmonk posted.
Also, you cannot trip flying creatures. Explicitly.
Perhaps you can spend even more resources to perpetually play catch up, Chasing down bonuses from multiple disparate splatbooks. I'm sure you can push back the point when tripping becomes useless.
So at higher levels, the whip will be useless and I will have wasted feats?
Initially, I had planned on a lvl of pirate to go indy on the flyers and just shoot them, but GM said no firearms. Probably wise.
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Right. I shouldnt write so much out of memory at this time.
Of course level 12+ things change.
But then disarming and tripping a horned devil is pretty fun and possible.
I did it with my ninja. CMD 44.
Weapon Finesse +2 dueling field guide whip=+6, +5 DEX mod, weapon focus +1, heirloom weapon+2, improved and greater trip +4, halfling(+1 hit/-1CMB negate each other with weapon finesse and a trip weapon).
BAB is 8 at level 12 (ninja 10/monk 2). Makes trip +26.
Ok i rolled pretty good, but its possible on an 18 and the foe is CR 16.
And i could have had furys fall for another +5.
You could take 3 levels of Lore Warden, but thats the only other boosting ability i know. Probably not worth it all. For bards its different anyway and i would do different stuff with a bard i think.
Who recommended avoiding combat feats, anyways?
No one. I like more combat, but am trying to play controller role and worry that multiclassing to grab more combat feats will hurt spells and bard abilities.
At some point, yes. Magikot's build above probably will work, but you're looking at spending almost every single resource you have on making it work. And it's still completely negated by a flying creature. Or this line from trip combat maneuver:
You can only trip an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you.
I suppose you could try to get a permanent Enlarge Person cast on you, and hope to dear god that you never are hit by Dispel Magic. Or you could ask your friend the wizard to cast Enlarge Person on you, eating up his first turn.
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@galahad
Lore Warden is a great 2-3 level splash. Since we started talking about the whip tripping bard I thought of a build for one. Any bard level after 1 can be replaced with a third level of Lore Warden for another +2 to CMB for even more tripping.
Human
20 point buy - Str 9, Dex 20, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 7, Cha 14
Traits: Heirloom Weapon (Whip, +2 to trips), Reactionary
Level 1 Bard 1: Lingering Performance, Agile Maneuvers
Level 2 Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (Whip)
Level 3 Fighter 2: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Whip Mastery
Level 4 Bard 2: Dex +1
Level 5 Bard 3: Combat Reflexes
Level 7 Bard 5: Improved Whip Mastery
Level 8 Bard 6: Dex +1
Level 9 Bard 7: Greater Trip
Level 11 Bard 9: Fury's Fall
Level 12 Bard 10: Dex +1
Level 13 Bard 11: Weapon Finesse (Whip)
Level 15 Bard 13: Discordant Voice
Level 16 Bard 14: Dex +1
Level 17 Bard 15: Dazzling Display
Level 19 Bard 17: Shattered Defenses
Level 20 Bard 18: Dex +1With a +6 Dex belt and a +5 dex tome this will grant us a 36 dex. Use a +5 Deuling-FG Whip (Agile too if you like) and - assuming my math and understanding of the rules is correct - you have a CMB when you trip somewhere in the low 70s, 3 trips on your turn and 19 attacks of opportunity per round. Each trip you make provokes a damaging attack from you (which is why Agile is good), then when they stand up they provoke again letting you trip them again followed by another damaging attack because they provoke for falling down. You can easily keep 3 enemies out of the fight almost indefinitely this way.
This was helpful, thanks. I may rethink my attributes as well. right now, STR 12, INT 13, DEX 14, CON 11 Wis 10 CHA 17 should I change them? DEX 20 would give me higher armor class, whole reason I took dodge, but like spring attack tree. I liked having a bit of strength, but maybe pool all into dex?
A wand of enlarge person would work, too, wouldn't it?
It's also kind of strange that Bard is one of the few (only?) arcane caster classes without enlarge person. I wonder if that was explicitly to deter trip builds?
Also, shouldn't my CHA be higher than 14?
For a non-caster bard, I usually recommend a starting Cha of 14. You won't be casting too many spells that require saving throws, so you don't need a high Cha.