azhrei_fje |
So one of my players has decided to multiclass. And not to be outdone by a mere mortal somewhere in the multiverse, he has a Bbn2/Mnk2/Sor1/DD3. :)
Questions:
1. Pretty clear that the monk's flurry doesn't work with the claws/bite due to the wording of the flurry. (Just verifying.)
2. The Blood of Dragons DD feature says that DD levels stack with Sorceror levels for the purposes of obtaining bloodline powers. Do they also stack for the purposes of DCs (such as the Breath Weapon DC of 10 + 1/2 sor level + Cha modifier) or other level-dependent effects (like the damage dice for the breath weapon)?
3. The bloodline provides a natural armor bonus of +1 at levels 3, 9, and 15 based on sorceror levels + DD levels. The DD also provides a natural armor bonus of +1 at levels 1, 4, and 7 based on just DD levels. Does this mean that the above build has a natural armor bonus of +2 because the DD is at level 3 and the Sor is at level 1+3? I want to verify that the DD levels count twice.
4. What is the damage of the DD bite attack? For most creatures with a claw damage of 1d4 I'd expect a bite of 1d6...
Thanks!
ElyasRavenwood |
Azhrei_fje,
1) I just read the text on page 57 and 58 of the Pathfinder book and I do believe you are correct. Natural attacks and flurry of blows do not stack.
2) On page 381 the text says that sorcerer levels and dragon disciple levels stack in regards to “powers gained from that bloodline”. The text specifically separates out the bonus spells a sorcerer gets from his bloodline and states that he only gets them if he has a spell slot of the appropriate level. I would hazard a guess that you would use the staggered spell progression of a dragon disciple to determine at what level a character would then gain access to his bonus spells from his bloodline. For example, a character must be at least 5 level before becoming a dragon disciple at 6 level. Sorcerers get their 3rd level spells at 6 level. A sorcerer/ Dragon disciple 5/1 would have to wait for 7 level to get access to 3rd level spells because that is when the dragon disciple gets a “+1 caster level” and becomes a 6 level spell caster then he would get his bonus 3rd level bloodline spell.
I don’t see in the text where they go into any detail about whether the levels stack concerning the DCs and damage dice of breath weapons. However, I would interpret “ powers gained from that blood line” to include the level dependent variables. This keeps the powers viable as you advance in level. The designers have taken care to slow the spell progression, and I think if they wanted the other things restricted they would have specifically mentioned it. I know a weak and rambling argument but there we are.
3) Based on what I said earlier, I would say yes.
4) Again I think you are right on the mark. For the damage of a DD’s bite attack I would refer to page 302 of the Pathfinder Bestiary. The damage of a medium creature’s natural bite attack would be 1d6.
I see a possible alignment restriction with your player’s class combination. Barbarians can be of any non-lawful alignment. Monks must be of a lawful alignment. The text does say, that monks who become non lawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all of their previously accumulated monk abilities. I haven’t found any similar restriction about the barbarian in the Pathfinder rulebook, although I think there was one in 3.5. I think the barbarian lost his abilities if he became lawful.
I hope this helps.
LazarX |
Azhrei_fje,
I see a possible alignment restriction with your player’s class combination. Barbarians can be of any non-lawful alignment. Monks must be of a lawful alignment. The text does...
Monk/Barbarian is a typical cheese combination, especially since for it to actually work, Monk levels have to be taken before Barbarian ones.
Lanx |
I see a possible alignment restriction with your player’s class combination. Barbarians can be of any non-lawful alignment. Monks must be of a lawful alignment. The text does say, that monks who become non lawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all of their previously accumulated monk abilities. I haven’t found any similar restriction about the barbarian in the Pathfinder rulebook, although I think there was one in 3.5. I think the barbarian lost his abilities if he became lawful.
Even in Pathfinder the barbarian has to be of any nonlawful alignment (p. 31), but the text about ex-barbarians from 3.5 is gone. So I think, becoming lawful he cannot progress any further as barbarian, but he does not loose his powers.
The Grandfather |
So one of my players has decided to multiclass. And not to be outdone by a mere mortal somewhere in the multiverse, he has a Bbn2/Mnk2/Sor1/DD3. :)
Why any GM would allow this combnation is beyond me; I hope the player has a VERY good explanation.
Questions:
1. Pretty clear that the monk's flurry doesn't work with the claws/bite due to the wording of the flurry. (Just verifying.)
That is correct.
2. The Blood of Dragons DD feature says that DD levels stack with Sorceror levels for the purposes of obtaining bloodline powers. Do they also stack for the purposes of DCs (such as the Breath Weapon DC of 10 + 1/2 sor level + Cha modifier) or other level-dependent effects (like the damage dice for the breath weapon)?
DD levels stack with Sorcerer levels for ALL bloodline powers and their level dependant characteristics.
Spells per level (the "stunted" progression, mentioned above) is only relevant towards spellcasting, spells known and spells per day.3. The bloodline provides a natural armor bonus of +1 at levels 3, 9, and 15 based on sorceror levels + DD levels. The DD also provides a natural armor bonus of +1 at levels 1, 4, and 7 based on just DD levels. Does this mean that the above build has a natural armor bonus of +2 because the DD is at level 3 and the Sor is at level 1+3? I want to verify that the DD levels count twice.
The DD natural armor description says: "...a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character’s existing natural armor (if any),...". This means the effects stack.
4. What is the damage of the DD bite attack? For most creatures with a claw damage of 1d4 I'd expect a bite of 1d6...
Thanks!
According to the PFB the bite damage of medium creatures is 1d6. If your character is medium sized his bite deals 1d6 dmg. This may vary according to size.
The Grandfather |
2) On page 381 the text says that sorcerer levels and dragon disciple levels stack in regards to “powers gained from that bloodline”. The text specifically separates out the bonus spells a sorcerer gets from his bloodline and states that he only gets them if he has a spell slot of the appropriate level. I would hazard a guess that you would use the staggered spell progression of a dragon disciple to determine at what level a character would then gain access to his bonus spells from his bloodline. For example, a character must be at least 5 level before becoming a dragon disciple at 6 level. Sorcerers get their 3rd level spells at 6 level. A sorcerer/ Dragon disciple 5/1 would have to wait for 7 level to get access to 3rd level spells because that is when the dragon disciple gets a “+1 caster level” and becomes a 6 level spell caster then he would get his bonus 3rd level bloodline spell.
As posted, I disagree.
All spellcasting is governed by the Spells per Day collumn in table 11-4. Blood of Dragons deals only with "the powers gained from his bloodline".I don’t see in the text where they go into any detail about whether the levels stack concerning the DCs and damage dice of breath weapons. However, I would interpret “ powers gained from that blood line” to include the level dependent variables. This keeps the powers viable as you advance in level. The designers have taken care to slow the spell progression, and I think if they wanted the other things restricted they would have specifically mentioned it. I know a weak and rambling argument but there we are.
I agree with that.
azhrei_fje |
Why any GM would allow this combnation is beyond me; I hope the player has a VERY good explanation.
This campaign started as a playtest of PF Beta and it's now a playtest of PF Final. As the alignment restrictions are in regard to L vs. C (and I don't have much problem with conflicts there; it's the G vs. E ones that really twist my nose) I have no problem with it.
The player asked about leveling up later in both Bbn and Mnk and I'm not inclined to deny it -- I truly expect the PC to be underpowered compared to the rest of the party. (The PC is 8th level and has a BAB of +5, but does receive that full BAB for the claws and bite. Otherwise, I don't see anything particularly out of whack with the combo. At least, not yet.)
azhrei_fje wrote:2. The Blood of Dragons DD feature says that DD levels stack with Sorceror levels for the purposes of obtaining bloodline powers. Do they also stack for the purposes of DCs (such as the Breath Weapon DC of 10 + 1/2 sor level + Cha modifier) or other level-dependent effects (like the damage dice for the breath weapon)?DD levels stack with Sorcerer levels for ALL bloodline powers and their level dependant characteristics.
Spells per level (the "stunted" progression, mentioned above) is only relevant towards spellcasting, spells known and spells per day.
So the idea of levels stacking to "obtain powers" is synonymous with levels stacking to determine the strength of those powers? My concern was that the stacking of levels was used to determine which powers the PC has access to, but that the levels don't stack to determine how strong those same powers actually are. And there is no quote RAW regarding it, hence my search for clarification. :)
Otherwise, it looks like everyone agrees on the other questions. Thanks everyone!