Giants affected by Hold Person, etc.

[Werecorpse]

I understand the logic for giants being a sub class of humanoid but they have suffered a fairly significant change by being classed as humanoids in the spells that can effect them. They will as a rule have weak will saves such that now 0 level daze becomes an excellent option against an ogre, hold person stuffs most other giants. Sure they can now enlarge person but I was hoping in the bestiary the subtype of giant would get some sort of resistance against this type of magic - to me a stone giant being taken down by a hold person just seems wrong.

Giants seem less mystical now- just big people.

certainly the RotRL becomes a lot more tame.

how do people feel about this change?

[The Grandfather]

Werecorpse wrote:

I understand the logic for giants being a sub class of humanoid but they have suffered a fairly significant change by being classed as humanoids in the spells that can effect them. They will as a rule have weak will saves such that now 0 level daze becomes an excellent option against an ogre, hold person stuffs most other giants. Sure they can now enlarge person but I was hoping in the bestiary the subtype of giant would get some sort of resistance against this type of magic - to me a stone giant being taken down by a hold person just seems wrong.

Giants seem less mystical now- just big people.

certainly the RotRL becomes a lot more tame.

how do people feel about this change?

I suspect that is why ogres and most giants now have the Iron Will feat.

In general I like this change. I have always seen giants as "big people", albeit with strange powers.
I think giants are still very dangerous and although they now have new weaknesses they also gain new options (as you yourself mention).
I am currently running a RotRL campaign and do not foresee any real impact of this change in type.
I think the added feats and the new selectin of feats available to classed giants, like the Kreeg ogres, will provide a huge chalenge for players.

[Charles Evans 25]

Yikes! That was fixed fast. (The thread title).

[Mannimark]

There's a reason why old school D&D *never* allowed Hold Person to affect giants, and that reason is it makes them pathetically easy to kill.

Giants now need to roam around in large groups and stone the cleric to death as their first act at the onset of every battle.

[cranewings]

Just don't let it work on them. If you think it is stupid, that makes it stupid for your game. Don't be a slave to RAW. Just tell the players that giants aren't persons and aren't subject to those spells. The caster is NOT nerfed by this. Not all casters bother with hold person. They can just cast something else.

[Quandary]

now giants need class levels.

[Quantum Steve]

now giants need potions of enlarge person.

[Ashiel]

Werecorpse wrote:

I understand the logic for giants being a sub class of humanoid but they have suffered a fairly significant change by being classed as humanoids in the spells that can effect them. They will as a rule have weak will saves such that now 0 level daze becomes an excellent option against an ogre, hold person stuffs most other giants. Sure they can now enlarge person but I was hoping in the bestiary the subtype of giant would get some sort of resistance against this type of magic - to me a stone giant being taken down by a hold person just seems wrong.

Giants seem less mystical now- just big people.

certainly the RotRL becomes a lot more tame.

how do people feel about this change?

That's not really a nerf. I mean, Giants are also legal targets for enlarge person, which is easily the biggest buff any single monster received in the entire game. Ogre + 50 gp = super ogre.