Riding Dogs v. Wolves on the summon monster list


Rules Questions


I was looking this over and I can't quite figure it out. Is there a particular reason wolves are considered significantly superior to riding dogs for purposes of summoning spells? The only difference between them I can discern is that the wolf is a bit faster and has 1 point higher AC, but on the other hand the riding dog has a higher attack bonus and deals more damage, not to mention has a higher chance to trip the target. Otherwise, they're identical in virtually every way.

Am I missing something? Did anyone notice any similar oddities about the summoning lists? Any insight would be appreciated.

Scarab Sages

Because wolves are awesome.


what he said

damn straight


I would venture a guess that it's because Wolves get an automatic trip attempt with every bite.


Sean FitzSimon wrote:
I would venture a guess that it's because Wolves get an automatic trip attempt with every bite.

That and they are awesome

Paizo Employee Creative Director

That is indeed a little strange.

The riding dog ended up being a little more powerful and the wolf a little less powerful than we'd expected, and while we probably should have caught the fact that these two similar creatures are more or less close to being identical (and thus should probably be equal CRs).

I suspect that the way we'll solve this is eventually errataing the riding dog's CR up to 1. And that more or less works since there's really not that much statistically different between a wolf and a really big dog like a riding dog.

But that said... wolves ARE pretty awesome.


see, J.J. knows what he's talking about


You know whats even MORE awesome? BIGGER wolves. With SPIKES! And, like, bony protrusions!

Haha, j/k :P


Thanks James. :) Would riders then also get errata'd up to Summon Monster II then? Perhaps replaced with a normal dog? I'm playing a summoner at the moment and have another person playing one in a game I'm DMing, so I appreciate the clarification.

And to clarify to another poster (I didn't think to reply to your post and can't remember your name now, my apologies), riding dogs also get the free trip attempt.


Khalarak wrote:

Thanks James. :) Would riders then also get errata'd up to Summon Monster II then? Perhaps replaced with a normal dog? I'm playing a summoner at the moment and have another person playing one in a game I'm DMing, so I appreciate the clarification.

And to clarify to another poster (I didn't think to reply to your post and can't remember your name now, my apologies), riding dogs also get the free trip attempt.

It's cool. And yeah, I think I realized that after posting. I'm gonna go with the cool factor, then. I just don't think a poodle is gonna inspire the same fear as a feral wolf.


James Jacobs wrote:

That is indeed a little strange.

The riding dog ended up being a little more powerful and the wolf a little less powerful than we'd expected, and while we probably should have caught the fact that these two similar creatures are more or less close to being identical (and thus should probably be equal CRs).

I suspect that the way we'll solve this is eventually errataing the riding dog's CR up to 1. And that more or less works since there's really not that much statistically different between a wolf and a really big dog like a riding dog.

But that said... wolves ARE pretty awesome.

I treat the wolf as a subset of the dog in my house rules for Druid animal companions. The wolf gets two "feats" (+10 move, trip) and the dog, if of an adventurer-quality breed, gets those or two different feats (and you can shift STR, DEX, CON around a little).

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
But that said... wolves ARE pretty awesome.

Yes, they are.


Sean FitzSimon wrote:
Khalarak wrote:

Thanks James. :) Would riders then also get errata'd up to Summon Monster II then? Perhaps replaced with a normal dog? I'm playing a summoner at the moment and have another person playing one in a game I'm DMing, so I appreciate the clarification.

And to clarify to another poster (I didn't think to reply to your post and can't remember your name now, my apologies), riding dogs also get the free trip attempt.

It's cool. And yeah, I think I realized that after posting. I'm gonna go with the cool factor, then. I just don't think a poodle is gonna inspire the same fear as a feral wolf.

True, but what about a mastiff? A wolfhound? A husky? A St. Bernard? :P Mastiffs in particular are terrifying animals.


Khalarak wrote:

I was looking this over and I can't quite figure it out. Is there a particular reason wolves are considered significantly superior to riding dogs for purposes of summoning spells? The only difference between them I can discern is that the wolf is a bit faster and has 1 point higher AC, but on the other hand the riding dog has a higher attack bonus and deals more damage, not to mention has a higher chance to trip the target. Otherwise, they're identical in virtually every way.

Am I missing something? Did anyone notice any similar oddities about the summoning lists? Any insight would be appreciated.

Riding dogs are more powerful than wolves in 3.5 also. You just combat train them and you have a wolf with more strength. That being said in 3.5 wolves could get large, which is silly to think of a wolf bigger than a human :) My mother is a veterinarian and the biggest dog I've ever seen was 250 pounds and it was a mentally ill st bernard that couldn't walk so it got super fat(not making fun of the dog but illustrating the sillyness of a dog as a large creature). especially when there are already dire wolves to fill that role.


Khalarak wrote:
Sean FitzSimon wrote:
Khalarak wrote:

Thanks James. :) Would riders then also get errata'd up to Summon Monster II then? Perhaps replaced with a normal dog? I'm playing a summoner at the moment and have another person playing one in a game I'm DMing, so I appreciate the clarification.

And to clarify to another poster (I didn't think to reply to your post and can't remember your name now, my apologies), riding dogs also get the free trip attempt.

It's cool. And yeah, I think I realized that after posting. I'm gonna go with the cool factor, then. I just don't think a poodle is gonna inspire the same fear as a feral wolf.
True, but what about a mastiff? A wolfhound? A husky? A St. Bernard? :P Mastiffs in particular are terrifying animals.

I so want a mastiff.. but my house is much too small, heck my yard is too small for a dog the size of a pony..


grasshopper_ea wrote:
That being said in 3.5 wolves could get large, which is silly to think of a wolf bigger than a human :)

No, no it isn't. Wolf/husky hybrids are already bigger than humans (not bigger enough to be a Large creature, but bigger). A true 100% wolf pack alpha could easily be enough larger than that to warrant a size increase. My aunt-in-law raises ... I think they're 90% wolf, but I could have the percentage wrong ... some large % wolf/husky hybrids. They are MASSIVE. Bigger than any dog I've ever met, and I've known great danes, mastiffs, and huskies.


There is Large(tall) and Large(long). Wolves bigger than Medium are Large(awesome).


I do believe that I like the direction of this thread. ^.^

Liberty's Edge

There actually a few mix ups in Summon Monster as I see it.

eg. The drone ant (CR 3) and the soldier ant (CR 2) appear to be on the wrong summon monster lists.

Sovereign Court

Zurai wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
That being said in 3.5 wolves could get large, which is silly to think of a wolf bigger than a human :)
No, no it isn't. Wolf/husky hybrids are already bigger than humans (not bigger enough to be a Large creature, but bigger). A true 100% wolf pack alpha could easily be enough larger than that to warrant a size increase. My aunt-in-law raises ... I think they're 90% wolf, but I could have the percentage wrong ... some large % wolf/husky hybrids. They are MASSIVE. Bigger than any dog I've ever met, and I've known great danes, mastiffs, and huskies.

I'm familiar with those creatures, they are huge, but they aren't what I'd consider large size, I'd consider a Liger large size (for those who don't know Ligers are lion/tiger mixed breeds there are also Tions, it depends on which parent is the Lion, if a male lion breeds with a female tiger then a gene in lions that causes them to grow to massive sizes doesn't get the countergene from the female lion to cap the growth and Ligers get humoungous, much bigger than the mastif/wolf hybrids which I'm not denying are big, but not big enough to me to qualify for large size) What's rediculous to me, is that wolves start medium size and go to large which isn't at all common in real life, but gator start small and get to medium where in much more common circumstances gator get huge and would also easily be considered large size. I even tried to get that changed in the Beta, but apparently fantasy wolves beat real world gators.


Zurai wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
That being said in 3.5 wolves could get large, which is silly to think of a wolf bigger than a human :)
No, no it isn't. Wolf/husky hybrids are already bigger than humans (not bigger enough to be a Large creature, but bigger). A true 100% wolf pack alpha could easily be enough larger than that to warrant a size increase. My aunt-in-law raises ... I think they're 90% wolf, but I could have the percentage wrong ... some large % wolf/husky hybrids. They are MASSIVE. Bigger than any dog I've ever met, and I've known great danes, mastiffs, and huskies.

I couldn't find a size on wolf husky, but I found this

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21009427-1702,00.html

claiming the "largest wolf ever" had been shot and weighed 80 kg, which is about 170 Lbs.. bigger than small humans, I am larger than that dog and I'm not a littler person, but I'm far from the biggest guy around. Heck, probably half of the men I know are bigger than that dog. That is "the largest ever" according tot he article, and claims that most hunters never saw one over 50kg which would be just alittle over 100 lbs..


lastknightleft wrote:
Zurai wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
That being said in 3.5 wolves could get large, which is silly to think of a wolf bigger than a human :)
No, no it isn't. Wolf/husky hybrids are already bigger than humans (not bigger enough to be a Large creature, but bigger). A true 100% wolf pack alpha could easily be enough larger than that to warrant a size increase. My aunt-in-law raises ... I think they're 90% wolf, but I could have the percentage wrong ... some large % wolf/husky hybrids. They are MASSIVE. Bigger than any dog I've ever met, and I've known great danes, mastiffs, and huskies.
I'm familiar with those creatures, they are huge, but they aren't what I'd consider large size, I'd consider a Liger large size (for those who don't know Ligers are lion/tiger mixed breeds there are also Tions, it depends on which parent is the Lion, if a male lion breeds with a female tiger then a gene in lions that causes them to grow to massive sizes doesn't get the countergene from the female lion to cap the growth and Ligers get humoungous, much bigger than the mastif/wolf hybrids which I'm not denying are big, but not big enough to me to qualify for large size) What's rediculous to me, is that wolves start medium size and go to large which isn't at all common in real life, but gator start small and get to medium where in much more common circumstances gator get huge and would also easily be considered large size. I even tried to get that changed in the Beta, but apparently fantasy wolves beat real world gators.

It's a liger... it's like my favorite animal...

Sovereign Court

grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Zurai wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
That being said in 3.5 wolves could get large, which is silly to think of a wolf bigger than a human :)
No, no it isn't. Wolf/husky hybrids are already bigger than humans (not bigger enough to be a Large creature, but bigger). A true 100% wolf pack alpha could easily be enough larger than that to warrant a size increase. My aunt-in-law raises ... I think they're 90% wolf, but I could have the percentage wrong ... some large % wolf/husky hybrids. They are MASSIVE. Bigger than any dog I've ever met, and I've known great danes, mastiffs, and huskies.
I'm familiar with those creatures, they are huge, but they aren't what I'd consider large size, I'd consider a Liger large size (for those who don't know Ligers are lion/tiger mixed breeds there are also Tions, it depends on which parent is the Lion, if a male lion breeds with a female tiger then a gene in lions that causes them to grow to massive sizes doesn't get the countergene from the female lion to cap the growth and Ligers get humoungous, much bigger than the mastif/wolf hybrids which I'm not denying are big, but not big enough to me to qualify for large size) What's rediculous to me, is that wolves start medium size and go to large which isn't at all common in real life, but gator start small and get to medium where in much more common circumstances gator get huge and would also easily be considered large size. I even tried to get that changed in the Beta, but apparently fantasy wolves beat real world gators.
It's a liger... it's like my favorite animal...

Yeah and then tions are just the sad smaller then a normal lion crossbreed when the lion is a mother instead.

Edit: Oh wait, napolean dynamite refrence, disregard this statement.

I know in my games, wolves and gators are being houseruled to reflect their real world equivalents. I'm still bugged that I have to houserule it though.


grasshopper_ea wrote:

I couldn't find a size on wolf husky, but I found this

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21009427-1702,00.html

claiming the "largest wolf ever" had been shot and weighed 80 kg, which is about 170 Lbs.. bigger than small humans, I am larger than that dog and I'm not a littler person, but I'm far from the biggest guy around. Heck, probably half of the men I know are bigger than that dog. That is "the largest ever" according tot he article, and claims that most hunters never saw one over 50kg which would be just alittle over 100 lbs..

That's gray wolves. There are larger wolf breeds out there. Also, weight is hardly everything. There are large (and larger) creatures in the game that have no mass at all.


Zurai wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:

I couldn't find a size on wolf husky, but I found this

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21009427-1702,00.html

claiming the "largest wolf ever" had been shot and weighed 80 kg, which is about 170 Lbs.. bigger than small humans, I am larger than that dog and I'm not a littler person, but I'm far from the biggest guy around. Heck, probably half of the men I know are bigger than that dog. That is "the largest ever" according tot he article, and claims that most hunters never saw one over 50kg which would be just alittle over 100 lbs..

That's gray wolves. There are larger wolf breeds out there. Also, weight is hardly everything. There are large (and larger) creatures in the game that have no mass at all.

What breeds are they because I want to look this up. If there's a wolf bigger than me I want to know about it because I want to live in alaska someday and I need to know what size gun to buy.

edit: for the polar bears I'm thinking of a 30/30 elephant rifle and a helecopter.. and yes I know they're endangered but if one's trying to eat me I will deal with the consequences after it's dead.


You don't have to worry about them in Alaska. The biggest wolf native to the Americas is the grey/timber wolf. The biggest surviving wolf variety I'm aware of is the tundra wolf, but they're only found in Eurasia and Asia.

EDIT: Actually, you don't have to worry about wolves at all. Wolves do not attack humans, as a rule of thumb. That's all a smear campaign by ranchers, who hate wolves because wolves think penned cattle are a buffet. You're far more likely to be attacked by some of the herbivores native to the far north than you are to be attacked by wolves.


Zurai wrote:
You don't have to worry about them in Alaska. The biggest wolf native to the Americas is the grey/timber wolf. The biggest surviving wolf variety I'm aware of is the tundra wolf, but they're only found in Eurasia and Asia.

According to Wikipedia, those wolves "can attain a body length of 2 meters (7 feet) and usually an average weight of 45-57 kilograms (100-125 pounds)". A 7-foot tall human is not size Large.


hogarth wrote:
Zurai wrote:
You don't have to worry about them in Alaska. The biggest wolf native to the Americas is the grey/timber wolf. The biggest surviving wolf variety I'm aware of is the tundra wolf, but they're only found in Eurasia and Asia.
According to Wikipedia, those wolves "can attain a body length of 2 meters (7 feet) and usually an average weight of 45-57 kilograms (100-125 pounds)". A 7-foot tall human is not size Large.

Horses are only 7 feet long and are size Large. Also, you conveniently edited out the mention of 100kg tundra wolves, which would presumably be just a little bigger than the average 7 feet long for 50kg tundra wolves.


Zurai wrote:

You don't have to worry about them in Alaska. The biggest wolf native to the Americas is the grey/timber wolf. The biggest surviving wolf variety I'm aware of is the tundra wolf, but they're only found in Eurasia and Asia.

EDIT: Actually, you don't have to worry about wolves at all. Wolves do not attack humans, as a rule of thumb. That's all a smear campaign by ranchers, who hate wolves because wolves think penned cattle are a buffet. You're far more likely to be attacked by some of the herbivores native to the far north than you are to be attacked by wolves.

From wikipedia

The largest one is the Tundra Wolf. They can attain a body length of 2 meters (7 feet) and usually an average weight of 45-57 kilograms (100-125 pounds), though there are some unconfirmed reports of animals reaching weights of 100 kilograms (220 pounds).

This wolf is a sub-species of the common Grey Wolf.

There are some slight misconceptions that the Russian Wolf is the largest. The Russian wolf is large by grey wolf standards, with an average weight of 55 kg and a range of 30-80 kg for males and an average of 45 kg and a range of 23-55 kg for females.

At 7 ft long(very tall human) averaging 100-125 lbs(very lean) I'm going to keep them in the medium category realistically. Even at 220 lbs many humans would weigh more, some will be taller, and comparing to a fantasy race like half-orcs(also medium) these would be proportionally a labrador to a half-orc.

As a side note.. I would be really emasculated to come home and be like "Hey honey, I saw this gigantic wolf today. It didn't try to eat me but a bull moose tried to kill me just for being in his territory(which I understand is likely). I fed it to the wolf"

Sovereign Court

Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*


lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*

I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.

Sovereign Court

grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*
I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.

Um why can a large wolf go into a dungeon but a large gator not?

Sovereign Court

lastknightleft wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*
I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.
Um why can a large wolf go into a dungeon but a large gator not?

Um...because gators don't like stairs - large or not?

:D

Sovereign Court

Jess Door wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*
I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.
Um why can a large wolf go into a dungeon but a large gator not?

Um...because gators don't like stairs - large or not?

:D

Then why can you take medium gators into the dungeon Aggh *head explodes* :D


lastknightleft wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*
I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.
Um why can a large wolf go into a dungeon but a large gator not?

I never said it couldn't. However I think you'll agree that the huge sized 3.5 giant crocodile companion is a bit of a neusance when he's trying to follow the halfling druid into his hovel :)


lastknightleft wrote:
Jess Door wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*
I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.
Um why can a large wolf go into a dungeon but a large gator not?

Um...because gators don't like stairs - large or not?

:D

Then why can you take medium gators into the dungeon Aggh *head explodes* :D

They're small enough to carry? That settles it.. I'm getting a lap gator. I'm going to breed a crocodile with a miniature poodle and get a crockadoodle

Sovereign Court

grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*
I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.
Um why can a large wolf go into a dungeon but a large gator not?
I never said it couldn't. However I think you'll agree that the huge sized 3.5 giant crocodile companion is a bit of a neusance when he's trying to follow the halfling druid into his hovel :)

Oh I wasn't saying get huge sized crocs, I'm saying they should get to large size, not huge, and I agree any huge size AnCo is an annoyance. But wolves go to large at 7th and gators go to medium, it should have been the opposite, gators go to large at 7th and wolves go to medium.

Sovereign Court

grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Jess Door wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Yeah I've seen photos of big wolves but I wouldn't peg them as large size animals, horses having grown up with and dealt with I don't doubt, but the pics I've seen of large wolfs and what I've heard of the wolf hybrids I wouldn't qualify as a large creature, Large wolves are solely the realm of Dire Wolves. However gators, I've seen in my real life gators as big as me, and I've seen photo's of gators as recently as 2000 that were 2-3 the size of any human and without a doubt a large size creature. Once again, its nothing more than fantasy wolves > real life aligators. More people want horse sized wolves than want real life sized aligators and so wolves go to large size at 7th whereas gators go to medium *rolls eyes*
I think they did that to the croc's so that animal companions could go in the dungeon with their druid. What you're talking about is realistic though.. As long as they have space to grow and enough food reptiles will grow their whole life. And they can live a really long time. Several that are pets outlive their owners.
Um why can a large wolf go into a dungeon but a large gator not?

Um...because gators don't like stairs - large or not?

:D

Then why can you take medium gators into the dungeon Aggh *head explodes* :D
They're small enough to carry? That settles it.. I'm getting a lap gator. I'm going to breed a crocodile with a miniature poodle and get a crockadoodle

That's small size not medium and that explanation works for a small croc, but a medium croc usually takes 4 people to lift, so I can't see a party taking a medium croc in Aghh *second head explodes*

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