I am quite fond of 3.5, Pathfinder, and similar systems, but the nature of magic in these systems has never sat well with me. I don't like the idea that, at high levels, I either have to be a caster or decked out in enchanted gear in order to survive. Pathfinder addresses this to a degree by adjusting encounter difficulty for mundane gear, but this still doesn't overcome the problem of overpowered high-end casting. All attempts to make casting prohibitive (material costs, limited uses per day, etc.) are circumvented by clever players and end up breaking the game. This is my attempt to address the issue with an alternative approach. This is a very rough concept at this point and is essentially a mod of 3.5, but with time and playtesting it will hopefully evolve into something in its own right. Here we go:
Classes are divided into 4 types.
- Pure Melee (fighter, barbarian, rogue)
- Hybrid Melee (paladin, ranger, monk)
- Bardic Caster (seer, warden, shaman)
- True Caster (wizard, cleric, druid)
Pure Melees can not cast any spells or other magic. They do receive Combats; for the 3.5 conversion, these are a group of combat-themed spells (such as True Strike, Dimension Door, and Tenser's Transformation) that are used as extraordinary abilities. Pure Melees have full progression in these Combats (meaning they ultimately end up with 9th-level Combats, like a 3.5 wizard would have 9th-level spells). In addition to Combats, each class has unique features, such as a fighter's ability to accumulate knowledge of gear and tactics like a wizard's spellbook or a barbarian's ability to use grappled enemies as weapons or even live shields.
Hybrid Melees receive 4th-level Combats from a Pure Melee class of choice and 4th-level spells from a predetermined spell list (paladin:cleric, ranger:druid, monk:wizard). They also have special class features (such as a paladin's smite or a ranger's animal companion) and can sacrifice spell slots to use higher-level Combats. Hybrid Melees do not 'cast' in the traditional sense. They can activate magic items that cast spells or spell-like abilities as if they were casting the spell themselves, the number of charges/uses per day limited by their own spells per day rather than the item. Items with a constant effect occupy a number of slots appropriate for the effect's power for as long as they are worn/active.
Bardic Casters receive 8th-level spells from 2 lists (seer:wizard/cleric, warden:wizard/druid, shaman:cleric/druid), but their casting is likewise unconventional. Bardic Casters randomly draw spells, as if from a deck of cards, and apply them to items as if they were enchanting the item with the Spell Storing enhancement (except that, instead of having only 1 charge, the item's charges are dependent on the caster's available spells per day). A Bardic Caster doesn't have to cast the drawn spell immediately; the spell can be suspended until it is ready to be enchanted or cast directly, as normal. Bardic Casters gain the ability to suspend multiple spells at a time as they level, necessary for combining enchantment effects, and useful for versatility in combat. Bardic Casters can select two of the following class features: perform, lore, and observation (this last ability allows them to gain temporary proficiency with weapons and armor upon observation of a proficient character, allowing them to wade into battle as magic-heavy Hybrid Melees).
True Casters are rare and tend to keep themselves hidden (and with good reason, as you'll see below). Wizards, Clerics, and Druids can cast either their capstone spell-like ability or 9th-level spells each day; they must choose which at the first casting of the day(Wizard:Wish, Cleric:Miracle, Druid: Polymorph [Any]). They can enchant objects in a manner similar to a Bardic Caster, but in addition to costing the wielder spell slots as usual, the enchantment only has a limited number of charges equal to the number of spell slots the True Caster expends to enchant the item. The wielder can not cast the spell more times than it has charges (which do not refresh per day; to add additional charges, the True Caster must expend extra spell slots), even if the wielder has extra spell slots available. Furthermore, the True Caster loses both the spell cast and the spell slots expended until he/she decides to disenchant the item or it is destroyed (at which point the True Caster's expended spell slots and ability to cast the spell are restored). Here's what makes being a True Caster so dangerous: if the True Caster dies while an item is enchanted with his/her spells, the enchantment becomes permanent and its charges refresh per day. This gives treasure hunters all kinds of incentive to kill True Casters and cash in on their enchanted items, and likewise makes True Casters very paranoid about enchanting items to begin with. A True Caster may enchant an item with his/her capstone spell-like ability, but the item has only one charge and the process of enchantment kills the caster (if the caster is returned to life, the item is automatically disenchanted).
This system strives to give Pure Melees the advantage of using purely extraordinary abilities, allowing them to operate in antimagic fields and other situations that render magic users helpless (or at the very least, complicate things for them). It also strives to allow players to play True Casters, but at a steep price that genuinely requires a lot of intelligence, wisdom, and charisma on the player's part to stay alive.
A number of special factors help add flavor to the class and enforce role-playing to a degree. For example, a wizard has to be VERY clever to safely cast Wish on a daily basis without suffering some fairly serious consequences, so there will be no such thing as a dull-witted wizard player. A cleric's Miracle has a percent chance of success based on whether the requested action falls within the deity's portfolio and within the cleric's chosen domains, giving them incentive to stick to their deity's strengths and tactics both in combat and out. A druid's spells vary in effect based on the environment in which they are being cast (a blizzard in a jungle is much weaker than a fireball near a volcano, for example). The power of a paladin's smite depends on the difference between his alignment and his target's, giving the paladin incentive to hunt down those opposed to his ideals (a paladin in this system is not necessarily lawful good). The effectiveness of a bardic caster's perform abilities are tied to his/her fame as well as the size of the audience, giving the performer incentive to be a loud, attention-craving show-off in the spirit of a real bard. These are just a few ways in which game mechanics help 'force' role-play.
This is a broad overview of the system; please let me know what you think. I understand that this is rather vague, and I would be more than happy to answer any questions regarding specific classes, system mechanics, etc.
Yay!!! More feedback post coma.
Hmm, I'm honestly not sure how I feel about the total overhaul of magic. I can definitely see some advantages, but I'm rather fond of how things work right now.
Overall, I definitely approve of this and think it would serve well in a published world.
I agree that it's not for everyone, but rather an alternative to those who have issues with magic in D&D being overpowered at the high end of the game. I've always thought that paladins casting fireballs from wands was a bit out of line for the class, much less barbarians who can't spell 'magic' being able to handle the flow of mana in the dozen or so enchanted items in their possession by the time they hit epic levels.
Also, the True Casters must be given a reason to keep their identities hidden, leading to the secretive and dangerous nature of magic in the world. If they had no reason to be hidden, everyone would simply learn magic. In this system, only the most powerful True Casters dare reveal themselves (or initiates under the protection of said casters, such as at an academy of magic, sheltered from the outside world).
The death of a True Caster and its relation to enchantments (especially its spell-like ability) is very important in relation to the creation of the Beryl worlds; the original 'gods' that forged the worlds actually sacrificed themselves to make their enchantments permanent. This is also the mechanic that keeps currently existing deities from simply killing each other off (there is no such thing as true physical immortality, even among true gods, as their bodies are subject to the laws of nature like the rest of creation). If a god were to die, all enchantments under its control (blessings upon powerful followers, magic influencing the world, etc.) would become permanent, and result in a bunch of very pissed-off followers hunting down whatever was responsible for the death of their deity. This leads gods to be wiser and more creative in the ways they keep their opponents' power in check.
SAAj wrote: I agree that it's not for everyone, but rather an alternative to those who have issues with magic in D&D being overpowered at the high end of the game. I've always thought that paladins casting fireballs from wands was a bit out of line for the class, much less barbarians who can't spell 'magic' being able to handle the flow of mana in the dozen or so enchanted items in their possession by the time they hit epic levels. Hmmm... not to sound snarky, but Fireball is not on the paladin spell list, and Wand of Fireballs is, to my knowledge, a spell trigger item, isn't it? Besides, you don't need to "handle mana flows" in items; the magic is already in them, and items like Rings of Protection and Belt of Physical Perfection function automatically when worn (without any concentration or effort). I'm not sure which kind of items you're referring to?
Asgetrion wrote: SAAj wrote: I agree that it's not for everyone, but rather an alternative to those who have issues with magic in D&D being overpowered at the high end of the game. I've always thought that paladins casting fireballs from wands was a bit out of line for the class, much less barbarians who can't spell 'magic' being able to handle the flow of mana in the dozen or so enchanted items in their possession by the time they hit epic levels. Hmmm... not to sound snarky, but Fireball is not on the paladin spell list, and Wand of Fireballs is, to my knowledge, a spell trigger item, isn't it? Besides, you don't need to "handle mana flows" in items; the magic is already in them, and items like Rings of Protection and Belt of Physical Perfection function automatically when worn (without any concentration or effort). I'm not sure which kind of items you're referring to?
I was being a bit careless with my examples. Let's say a paladin wielding a flaming burst longsword, then. Paladins don't know the first thing about controlling elemental fire, and they shouldn't be able to handle such a weapon safely any more than a modern police officer should be able to handle a flamethrower. And even items that function automatically should not do so, in my opinion. If you're going to have a magical effect on you, someone should be paying the price for it (and not just in gold). A magical effect should cost either you or another character who casts it on you. Otherwise, pure melee characters with powerful 'free' magical enhancements simply have too much going for them.
SAAj wrote: Asgetrion wrote: SAAj wrote: I agree that it's not for everyone, but rather an alternative to those who have issues with magic in D&D being overpowered at the high end of the game. I've always thought that paladins casting fireballs from wands was a bit out of line for the class, much less barbarians who can't spell 'magic' being able to handle the flow of mana in the dozen or so enchanted items in their possession by the time they hit epic levels. Hmmm... not to sound snarky, but Fireball is not on the paladin spell list, and Wand of Fireballs is, to my knowledge, a spell trigger item, isn't it? Besides, you don't need to "handle mana flows" in items; the magic is already in them, and items like Rings of Protection and Belt of Physical Perfection function automatically when worn (without any concentration or effort). I'm not sure which kind of items you're referring to?
I was being a bit careless with my examples. Let's say a paladin wielding a flaming burst longsword, then. Paladins don't know the first thing about controlling elemental fire, and they shouldn't be able to handle such a weapon safely any more than a modern police officer should be able to handle a flamethrower. And even items that function automatically should not do so, in my opinion. If you're going to have a magical effect on you, someone should be paying the price for it (and not just in gold). A magical effect should cost either you or another character who casts it on you. Otherwise, pure melee characters with powerful 'free' magical enhancements simply have too much going for them. Magical weapons with special abilities don't work with "mental control"; enchantments are usually either automatically active (vorpal, keen, bane etc.) or command-word activated (flaming, flaming burst, cold, etc.). I don't see it being unfair or illogical (anybody capable of speech can utter the command word). Furthermore, in my experience "melee" classes are "inferior" to the spellcasting classes; pit any high-level 3E/PF RPG fighter or paladin against a flying high-level wizard/cleric/druid and see how it turns out.
Asgetrion wrote: SAAj wrote: Asgetrion wrote: SAAj wrote: I agree that it's not for everyone, but rather an alternative to those who have issues with magic in D&D being overpowered at the high end of the game. I've always thought that paladins casting fireballs from wands was a bit out of line for the class, much less barbarians who can't spell 'magic' being able to handle the flow of mana in the dozen or so enchanted items in their possession by the time they hit epic levels. Hmmm... not to sound snarky, but Fireball is not on the paladin spell list, and Wand of Fireballs is, to my knowledge, a spell trigger item, isn't it? Besides, you don't need to "handle mana flows" in items; the magic is already in them, and items like Rings of Protection and Belt of Physical Perfection function automatically when worn (without any concentration or effort). I'm not sure which kind of items you're referring to?
I was being a bit careless with my examples. Let's say a paladin wielding a flaming burst longsword, then. Paladins don't know the first thing about controlling elemental fire, and they shouldn't be able to handle such a weapon safely any more than a modern police officer should be able to handle a flamethrower. And even items that function automatically should not do so, in my opinion. If you're going to have a magical effect on you, someone should be paying the price for it (and not just in gold). A magical effect should cost either you or another character who casts it on you. Otherwise, pure melee characters with powerful 'free' magical enhancements simply have too much going for them. Magical weapons with special abilities don't work with "mental control"; enchantments are usually either automatically active (vorpal, keen, bane etc.) or command-word activated (flaming, flaming burst, cold, etc.). I don't see it being unfair or illogical (anybody capable of speech can utter the command word). Furthermore, in my experience "melee" classes are "inferior" to the spellcasting classes;... Melee classes, by default, are inferior at the high end, which is why they tend to be decked out with all kinds of magic enhancements to even the odds a bit. This is what I have a problem with, and what my revised magic system strives to address. As for enhancements like Keen, these are only 'magical' because D&D lacks more precise definitions of the difference between fine craftsmanship and true magic. The only examples of craft-based special features I can think of are modular weapons that can be disassembled, elvencraft bows that double as quarterstaves, and stow-away wand chambers. Were it better defined, Keen and similar enhancements would not be magical. Something requiring a command word, especially a complex magic effect, is no different than pulling the trigger on a gun, and I believe that unless a character is trained for it, that should not come easily.
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