Say, has anyone done anything by way of converting lupins (the wolf-folks from Dragon #325 or the Best of Dragon Compendium Volume 1) to the current set of rules? They are probably my favorite non-core race, even if I use them in somewhat oddball ways (i\.e., attempted cures for PCs infected with lycanthropy that only sorta work result in lupin-dom) and if anyone has done anything with them I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks all.
Firstly: what should their Stat modifiers be?
Should they get the 'usual' PC-race ones, a +2 to two characteristics (being wolfish, I'd go with Constitution and Wisdom) and a -2 to another (Charisma?), or should it be handled the way it is for humans, half-elves, and half-orcs, with just one +2 to any characteristic?
Firstly: what should their Stat modifiers be?
Should they get the 'usual' PC-race ones, a +2 to two characteristics (being wolfish, I'd go with Constitution and Wisdom) and a -2 to another (Charisma?), or should it be handled the way it is for humans, half-elves, and half-orcs, with just one +2 to any characteristic?
As you point out, only humans and the half-breed races get +2 to any one ability score. All the other unique races get 2 +2s and 1 -2. By that standard, PFRPG versions of other half-breed races, such as muls or half-giants, would also receive +2 to any one stat. Lupin, however, are not (if I recall correctly) half-breeds; they are a wholly unique race, who just happen to look like anthropomorphic wolves. Therefore, I would guess that they would get the +2,+2, -2 array.
If memory serves, however, they had a level adjustment, but I think it was just a +1. If so, and assuming I were to allow them as PCs in my campaign, with the way the standard core races have been buffed in PFRPG, I would probably just drop the level adjustment and use them as is.
*Now I wish I weren't at work, so I'd have access to my Dragon Compendium.*
I can't find my mag, but do not think they had an LA, but they had alot of goodes I really don't think they needed any power up as they had a lot. Will find my mag and take a look see
No level adjustment on Lupin. No stat adjustments from base in 3.5 either.
- Medium Monstrous Humanoid
- 30 ft speed
- Darkvision
- Acute Sense of Smell: Wis check to track certain races by scent, +5 on Spot checks to match appearance with scent vs Disguise checks, Wis check to detect inviz creatures by scent, +2 Survival to follow tracks
- -2 saving throws vs. odor-based attacks (stinking cloud, etc.)
- +2 Ride, Always have Ride as a class skill
- +1 attack vs werewolves
- +2 Listen
- Auto languages: Common, Lupin
- Favored: Ranger
<python voice>WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE BLOODY LUPINS</python voice>
:D
Humm if thats the write up them I might go with
- Medium Monstrous Humanoid
- 30 ft speed
- Darkvision
- Acute Sense of Smell: +5 on perception checks to match appearance with scent vs Disguise checks, Wis check to detect inviz creatures by scent, +2 Survival to follow tracks.
- -2 saving throws vs. odor-based attacks (stinking cloud, etc.)
- +2 Ride, Always have Ride as a class skill
- +1 attack vs werewolves
- +2 perception
- Auto languages: Common, Lupin
- Favored: Ranger
Humm if thats the write up them I might go with
- Medium Monstrous Humanoid
- 30 ft speed
- Darkvision
- Acute Sense of Smell: +5 on perception checks to match appearance with scent vs Disguise checks, Wis check to detect inviz creatures by scent, +2 Survival to follow tracks.
- -2 saving throws vs. odor-based attacks (stinking cloud, etc.)
- +2 Ride, Always have Ride as a class skill
- +1 attack vs werewolves
- +2 perception
- Auto languages: Common, Lupin
- Favored: Ranger
This breaks the mold in a couple of ways. First, there's no stat modifier(s) listed. All pathfinder races have some modification beyond just whatever was rolled or point-bought. Second, no pathfinder race has a Favored Class already picked for them. The player gets to choose one at 1st level (or two if you're a half-elf), and it does not necessarily have to be the class you chose (though it'd usually be silly to do otherwise).
Yeah I forgot to delete the favored class. If I had to assign them state mods I would prob go +2 con,-2Int,+2 cha as they tend to be tough, and savage, with strong personality's and sense of self. Now you could also got +2 con,+2 wis with a -2 Int however that gives them even higher numbers with any skill based off wis, which they have in spades.
I could also see them gaining +2 to dex or even str in place of con, but con seems to fit better to me. Or you could go -2 wis as they make up for that very easy with acute sense. So I would not do it as it is no penalty if they make it up really
So I would do
+2 Con,-2 Int, +2 Cha
- Medium Monstrous Humanoid
- 30 ft speed
- Darkvision
- Acute Sense of Smell: +5 on perception checks to match appearance with scent vs Disguise checks, Wis check to detect inviz creatures by scent, +2 Survival to follow tracks.
- -2 saving throws vs. odor-based attacks (stinking cloud, etc.)
- +2 Ride, Always have Ride as a class skill
- +1 attack vs werewolves
- +2 perception
- Auto languages: Common, Lupin
Yeah I forgot to delete the favored class. If I had to assign them state mods I would prob go +2 con,-2Int,+2 cha as they tend to be tough, and savage, with strong personality's and sense of self. Now you could also got +2 con,+2 wis with a -2 Int however that gives them even higher numbers with any skill based off wis, which they have in spades.
I could also see them gaining +2 to dex or even str in place of con, but con seems to fit better to me. Or you could go -2 wis as they make up for that very easy with acute sense. So I would not do it as it is no penalty if they make it up really
So I would do
+2 Con,-2 Int, +2 Cha
- Medium Monstrous Humanoid
- 30 ft speed
- Darkvision
- Acute Sense of Smell: +5 on perception checks to match appearance with scent vs Disguise checks, Wis check to detect inviz creatures by scent, +2 Survival to follow tracks.
- -2 saving throws vs. odor-based attacks (stinking cloud, etc.)
- +2 Ride, Always have Ride as a class skill
- +1 attack vs werewolves
- +2 perception
- Auto languages: Common, Lupin
I'd consider replacing the Acute Sense of smell thing and the penalty to saves vs odor with just the plain old Scent ability. For simplicity's sake, rather than introducing new mechanics for a single race.
In 3.5 having Ride always available as a class skill was important, since cross-class skill ranks were so expensive. It's not nearly as much as a concern now, so I'd consider dropping it. That way you've now got the +2 to two skills (Perception & Ride) that is common to many races as well.
The racial attack bonus, if you opened it up to lycanthropes or to creatures with a shapechanger subtype (if such a thing exists in Pathfinder), it'd be more on par with what's given for other racial enemies. I realize that this probably has fluff reasons for being just werewolves (I'm not familiar with the race at all), but that would bring it mechanically more inline with what other races get.
You also need to specify what bonus languages are available to characters that start with a high INT.
Just wanted to say "thanks" to everyone here who's been chiming in with useful ideas.
As far as extra languages go... I'd go with Elvish, Gnoll, Fey, and possibly 1-2 other languages that are common in the wilderness of Golarion.
I'd consider replacing the Acute Sense of smell thing and the penalty to saves vs odor with just the plain old Scent ability. For simplicity's sake, rather than introducing new mechanics for a single race.
In 3.5 having Ride always available as a class skill was important, since cross-class skill ranks were so expensive. It's not nearly as much as a concern now, so I'd consider dropping it. That way you've now got the +2 to two skills (Perception & Ride) that is common to many races as well.
The racial attack bonus, if you opened it up to lycanthropes or to creatures with a shapechanger subtype (if such a thing exists in Pathfinder), it'd be more on par with what's given for other racial enemies. I realize that this probably has fluff reasons for being just werewolves (I'm not familiar with the race at all), but that would bring it mechanically more inline with what other races get.
yeah I was cheating and just going off what was listed above. Really when I used them I replaced werewolves with gnolls. You make amny good points however and changing it to shapeshifter subtype and with the secnt ablitys let me try this again with the feedback we have so far
Take 3
+2 Con,-2 Int, +2 Cha
- Medium Monstrous Humanoid
- 30 ft speed
- Dakvision
- Acute Sense of Smell: Lupins gain the scent ability .
This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.
A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.
The creature detects another creature's presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If the creature moves within 5 feet (1 square) of the scent's source, the creature can pinpoint the area that the source occupies, even if it cannot be seen.
A creature with the Survival skill and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Survival check to find or follow a track. A creature with the scent ability can attempt to follow tracks using Survival untrained. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry's odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Survival skill in regards to tracking. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.
Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.
Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.
False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.
- -2 saving throws vs. odor-based attacks (stinking cloud, etc.)
- +2 Ride,
- +1 attack vs creatures of the shapeshifter subtype
- +2 perception
- Auto languages: Common, Lupin. Lupin with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following:Elvish, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
Now myself I would change darkvison to low light as it seems to fit better
Second, no pathfinder race has a Favored Class already picked for them. The player gets to choose one at 1st level (or two if you're a half-elf), and it does not necessarily have to be the class you chose (though it'd usually be silly to do otherwise).
The Beta did have favored classes, but each race had at least two options (example, Half-Orcs could choose favored as either Barbarian or Druid, if I remember correctly). Was that changed after the Beta?
Second, no pathfinder race has a Favored Class already picked for them. The player gets to choose one at 1st level (or two if you're a half-elf), and it does not necessarily have to be the class you chose (though it'd usually be silly to do otherwise).The Beta did have favored classes, but each race had at least two options (example, Half-Orcs could choose favored as either Barbarian or Druid, if I remember correctly). Was that changed after the Beta?
Yup. When creating a character you just choose one class that's your favored class, and gain either +1 Hit Point or +1 Skill Point for every level in that class. Half-Elves are the exception, in that they get to choose two classes (still have to pick them at 1st level).