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So, the way I see it, the rules for both Pathfinder and 3.5 say you can't make a familiar out of your animal companion, but neither of which state that you can't make an animal companion out of your familiar... I haven't found anything in the rules of either system that states an animal companion has to be an unmodified creature.
Now I have a house rule that states Barbarians and Sorcerers are "wild" classes, and as such must be picked as your first class if you're going to multiclass as one of them. This leads to my question:
If you are a Sorcerer first and have a familiar, and then take a level in Druid with an animal companion, since originally the familiar wasn't modified before becoming a familiar, would it then be acceptable to make your familiar an animal companion AFTER its already your familiar thus becoming a familiar animal companion?

tejón RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |

With some added emphasis:
A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.
First bolded bit pretty much throws this idea out the door; magical beasts can't be animal companions. A RAW weasel might point out that it's only a magical beast for the purpose of effects, and argue that "being an animal companion" isn't an effect; so let's refer to the last sentence. It doesn't say "an animal companion cannot be selected as a familiar." Rather, it clearly states that no creature can ever be both at once.

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With some added emphasis:
PRD wrote:A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.First bolded bit pretty much throws this idea out the door; magical beasts can't be animal companions. A RAW weasel might point out that it's only a magical beast for the purpose of effects, and argue that "being an animal companion" isn't an effect; so let's refer to the last sentence. It doesn't say "an animal companion cannot be selected as a familiar." Rather, it clearly states that no creature can ever be both at once.
No, it states that an animal companion cannot function as a familiar, it does not state that a familiar cannot function as an animal companion. The above statement is implying that if it is a companion it cannot then be chosen as a familiar. It does not, however, state that once it's a familiar, it can't be chosen as an animal companion once you take your first level in Druid if you started out as the class that gave you access to the familiar, because the Druid class abilities would then superscede the first class's abilities.

Abraham spalding |

Regardless of order it cannot have both animal companion status and familiar status at the same time. At the point it is an animal companion it cannot be a familiar. So once you select it as an animal companion -- regardless of what it was first, it no longer qualifies to be a familiar.
Finally:
"A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar."
Since Animal Companions may not be Magical Beasts, a familiar cannot be an animal companion, and an animal companion cannot be a familiar.
It is sealed on both ends.

tejón RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |

No, it states that an animal companion cannot function as a familiar, it does not state that a familiar cannot function as an animal companion.
No, it does not state that "an animal companion cannot function as a familiar."
It states that "an animal companion cannot also function as a familiar."
Words matter. These are different sentences, with different meanings. The first describes potential; the second prohibits simultaneity. A thumbtack cannot function as a sewing needle, but a sewing needle can function as a thumbtack; that is the argument you are making, one of description. But it's entirely irrelevant. A needle which is currently sticking a piece of paper to the wall cannot also be used to stitch a hole in your pants.

concerro |

Kaspar Copper 223 wrote:No, it states that an animal companion cannot function as a familiar, it does not state that a familiar cannot function as an animal companion.No, it does not state that "an animal companion cannot function as a familiar."
It states that "an animal companion cannot also function as a familiar."
Words matter. These are different sentences, with different meanings. The first describes potential; the second prohibits simultaneity. A thumbtack cannot function as a sewing needle, but a sewing needle can function as a thumbtack; that is the argument you are making, one of description. But it's entirely irrelevant. A needle which is currently sticking a piece of paper to the wall cannot also be used to stitch a hole in your pants.
Are you arguing semantics?

The Grandfather |

Regardless of order it cannot have both animal companion status and familiar status at the same time. At the point it is an animal companion it cannot be a familiar. So once you select it as an animal companion -- regardless of what it was first, it no longer qualifies to be a familiar.
Finally:
"A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar."
Since Animal Companions may not be Magical Beasts, a familiar cannot be an animal companion, and an animal companion cannot be a familiar.
It is sealed on both ends.
I agree, that a familiar and a companion cannot be the same creature.
An interesting thing just popped up in that quote:
"A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar."
So if for any reason a player could convince the GM to allow a familiar and an animal companion to be the same creature, it would not benefit from improvements to Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats granted by the animal companion ability. It would retain the stats of a normal animal and eventually gain the devotion ability.
Basically, more is in this case less and the players would have succeeded in creating the ultimately nerfed animal companion.