RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Speaking of Housecat vs Commoner...
Have you read the 3.5 Monster Manual errata? Most monsters had their Weapon Finesse racial feat taken away or changed.
I'm pretty sure house cats had their Weapon Finesse taken away... so now they attack using STR, I think, though you may want to look that errata file up
Commoner wins
Have you checked the free download of the Pathfinder Bestiary preview?
Again, I suggest, more firmly this time, you familiarize yourself with the rules of the game before you critique them.
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Yes, I was right about cats and Finesse...
page 1 of MM3.5 Errata.... Cats had their Weapon Finesse changed to Stealthy
W00t COMMONER BABY!
I promise I'm not actively working against you, I was looking it up myself. But anyway, it says the Weapon Finesse becomes a bonus feat and Stealthy becomes the HD feat. Which is stupid. Killer housecats, bleh.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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1) I have never believed CHA determines what you looked like unless you wanted it to.
2) Go housecat! Show those casters who's boss!
1) Neither have I, thus including Wolverine who isn't going to win any beauty prizes in the comic books, and Illyana, who would. ;-)
2) in 3.x, my psychic warrior was owned by a skeletal housecat due to a) bad dice rolls and b) bad tactics on my part.
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A 1st level Half-Orc sorcerer, in Pathfinder, is really really powerful.
.... have up to a 20 CHA since Pathfinder Half-Orcs can have a 20 CHA at first level and thus a +5 ability modifier to Intimidate....
Which is why I went to using point buy in my campaigns. You might have a 20 Cha, but with only 20 points to spend, everything else is going to be prttey much average or below.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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By the by, I think the whole problem of "low CHA score means you are ugly" is something that hearkens back to earlier, more light-hearted editions of Gygaxian whimsy :))
Obviously, charisma is a quality of leadership whereby one influences others by manipulation of the popular imagination... why should this have anything to do with your looks?
Timur the Lame? Napoleon Bonaparte, Joan of Arc? Jesus of Nazareth?
None of these people were famously beautiful, but charismatic, yes
That would be a flawed assumption, as the 1e AD&D DMG lists Hitler as a specific example of an 18 charisma.
Which is why I went to using point buy in my campaigns. You might have a 20 Cha, but with only 20 points to spend, everything else is going to be prttey much average or below.A 1st level Half-Orc sorcerer, in Pathfinder, is really really powerful.
.... have up to a 20 CHA since Pathfinder Half-Orcs can have a 20 CHA at first level and thus a +5 ability modifier to Intimidate....
Here's a more reasonable example, a cleric I made for a PbP game:
male human barbarian 1/cleric (Gorum) 4
STR..18 ( 7 pts)
DEX..10 ( 0 pts)
CON..14 ( 5 pts)
INT...8 (-2 pts)
WIS..14 ( 5 pts)
CHA..14 ( 5 pts)
Feats:
Weapon Focus (greatsword) [human]
Intimidating Prowess [1st]
Selective Channeling [3rd]
Dazzling Display [5th]
Racial and Class Abilities:
Glory domain = touch grants +4 to one Cha skill check made in the next 3 rounds, 1/hour
Strength domain = touch grants +2 to one melee attack or Str check made in the next 3 rounds, 1/day
Skills
Armor Check Penalty: -5
Acrobatics -1 [1 rank, +3 class, +0 dex, -5 acp]
Intimidate +14 [5 ranks, +3 class, +2 cha, +4 str]
Knowledge (religion) +0 [1 rank, +3 class, -1 int]
Perception +15 [5 ranks, +3 class, +2 wis, +5 item (eyes of the eagle)]
So he spent two feats on improving Intimidate (Dazzling Display and Intimidating Prowess). In return he has a +14 Intimidate check, +4 if he casts his Enlarge Person domain spell, +4 if he uses his Glory domain ability (usable once/hour; only really useful out of combat). I found it useful enough as a mass debuff that's usable at will (remember that being shaken gives -2 to saves). YMMV.
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Are you saying Hitler wasn't sexy?
Let's look at why Hitler was sexy (still a completely hate-filled buffoon, but sexy nonetheless)
Power is sexy... that is why Donald Trump is orange and he still gets laid
He had classically rugged Semitic good looks thanks mainly to his Jewish mother's heritage.
He had a very unique mustache indicative of a sense of style... Style is sexy.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Hitler looked like a toad.
a rogue can't take Weapon Finesse until 3rd level simply because of the BAB requisite.
A rogue can take Weapon Finesse at first level.
I'd suggest reading the Feats chapter.
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If you know something I don't, Zurai, please share, I'd love a rogue with weapon finesse at 1st level
I'd suggest reading the Feats chapter in addition to all the rest of the rules you've apparently not read, from the posts in this thread.
I'll save you the effort this time (though I would repeat Zurai's advice in general): Weapon Finesse in Pathfinder does not have a BAB requirement.
Weird forum glitch.
Just tell him Weapon Finesse no longer requires a +1 BAB Zurai. No need to get snarky.
"Subtle" and "not at all subtle" had already been tried and ignored.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Are you saying Hitler wasn't sexy?
Let's look at why Hitler was sexy (still a completely hate-filled buffoon, but sexy nonetheless)
Power is sexy... that is why Donald Trump is orange and he still gets laid
He had classically rugged Semitic good looks thanks mainly to his Jewish mother's heritage.
He had a very unique mustache indicative of a sense of style... Style is sexy.
Have we passed from debate to trolling now?
LoreKeeper pretty much summed up what I was going to say on the matter. Yes, you can intimidate several people, you just have to do it one by one.
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As others have mentioned, if a standard Intimidate action can intimidate multiple foes, then there is absolutely no point in taking Dazzling Display so you can do the same thing as a full-round action.
That right there logically means that they did not mean intimidate to affect multiple foes. If you willfully ignore that feat, and disregard some of the text for the Intimidate skill, then I don't think anything short of errata or a post from Jason will convince you.
I never did understand people who are willing to jump through hoops and ignore parts of the rules to convince themselves of something.
On the other hand, I do believe that Intimidate stacks with itself, but you have to do it one standard action at a time, for one target at a time, and as mentioned, you have to beat the DC by at least 10 to get them running away from you.
If you don't know about a core feat in Pathfinder, I advise you to read the feat in the game system you're talking about.
As to the Ugly guy with a high Cha Arguement... Wolverine is a short hairy guy with 6 knives. Illyana is a slender teenaged girl with a glowing sword. When written correctly they're scary as heck.
Now, your hypothetical super-orc has spent his feat, 1/3-1/2 of his skill points, his only feat, and the majority of his stat points to do this trick. So our scary half-orc has 20(18+2) 10, 10, 10, 10, 8.
So lets put him in a dungeon.
He has between 5-7 hit points and 1-3 skill points. One of those skill points was spent on intimidate, so we'll put one in spellcraft.
Now let's pull out the commoner's bane, the housecat. (all rolls are assumed to be 10)
Housecat is likely to go first. Fortunately the fact that the 1/2 orc didn't see him coming (+14 steath vs 0 perception) since his 10 dex means he's not at a disadvantage for being flat footed.
1/2 orc loses hhis AoA and would likely miss (bab 0, str 10. needs a 14 or higher) Cat hits with all three attacks (bab +4 vs AC 10 means a 6 or higher) does 3 points of damage.
Normal round starts, cat wins initative mauls again for 3 points. half-orc is likely at 0 or less, but we'll say he's at 0.
1/2 orc goes to intimidate/cast/do something, makes the roll, so now the cat is -2 to hit. But wait, the cat gets an AoA if the half orc tried to intimidate, hits for 1 point. even if he has 7 HP he's down to 0 HP.
Round three the cat finished him off.
That's a CR 1/4 housecat.
2 Goblins should kill him almost as dead (+6 init vs +0 init) If they charge, they just need a 7 to hit, and do 2.5 points of damage on average. Even if he demoralizes them both (flawed reading of intimidate) the half orc draws AoA unless he 5' steps and the goblins still need an 11 after the demoralizing.
one Skeleton will eviscerate him. He'll likely miss with disrupt undead (+0 BAB, remember?) and it can't be demoralized.
Is...
I agree the housecat should sneak up on him, but I think in the surprise round it can only hit him once as a standard. Also, shouldn't the cat get a +8 to stealth for tiny? Maybe this is Garfield the cat
Edit: Do skeletal housecats get pounce?
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Course they gave em back Weapon Finesse :)) they took away the prerequisite for it in Pathfinder.
Still don't understand how the 1 hit die cat is listed with 3 feats... Scent, Stealthy, and Weapon Finesse
Well, scent isn't a feat. As for the other 2, animals and monsters typically get bonus feats that support their natural abilities(racial bonus feats), which is different from the feat gained 1st level or 1 HD. It's no different than calling it Improved Grab and making it an extraordinary ability(Improved Unarmed Strike) or letting a 2nd level ranger take TWF without meeting the prereq.
PS, Matthew, why is it okay for Gary Gygax to say that Hitler had an 18 CHA and it's trolling if I say Hitler was sexy?
Gygax said it offline, and for that matter, before Godwin laid down the law. :)
Ugly people often have poor charisma, due to resentment and self-esteem issues; beautiful people often have high charisma because they have no problem getting attention and joining social circles. That's where the association of charisma with appearance comes from, but there are plenty of exceptions on both sides.
If you want to have even more fun with fear, take a necromancer and give him the Fearsome Necromancy feat from Complete Mage: Everything you hit with a necromancy effect is Shaken even if it makes its save.
Admittedly it does say that it doesn't stack with other fear effects, but since Pathfinder has changed things, it might, and it's still pretty darn useful regardless, especially if you have someone ready to do a Dazzling Display next.
Except for those few, strange house cats that happen to like water.
Use the awaken spell! Then you can make the players paranoid because they think(and are correct in doing so) the cats are planning and cleverly trying to kill them.