Well, I failed to sell it. My group has been enjoying the insurgency angle of CoT so far and has come up with some interesting angles that have kept me adapting but tonight things went South.
The problem in a nutshell is that the party's view is that they should be active, not re-active. Volunteering for a play wherein unknown people threaten them in unknown ways in front of an unknown audience is a poor plan. Worse, they might get into a play that they might survive and that might get them invited to the mayor's house and that they might then be able to search the place and might find some clues and keys that might get them into Delvehaven which might help them solve the mystery of the Shadowbeats. Too many "mights".
The party is lukewarm at best about alternate entry to the mayor's home, while some discussion did happen. It looks like CoT#26 is going to be skipped entirely.
Thing is, in the one-off I ran while waiting for this module to arrive, the party bagged themselves a Shadowgarm. Now they think they have an angle on the Shadowbeats and are comfortable that they can at least entertain going up against them head-to-head. The current plan is to start following Shadowbeasts to try and figure out where they're coming from. While I can start unleashing more and more potent shadow creatures, revealing that Shadowgarms are but the least of Westcrown's problems, I've got absolutely zero idea how to tie any of this back into the adventure path's canonical plot.
Maybe it's time to punch out of the AP and go completely solo, but it feels really early. Any suggestions how to curl the edges back in to get somewhere that future plot will intersect with would be appreciated.
There are few unknowns as to who does exactly what to whom in the play - have they perused the script of the play as a handout? The persons whacking on them are part of the play itself.
If the play doesn't suit your style, the idea is to attempt to attend the after-party, which is when the "meat" of #26 takes place. I would highly recommend that they consider that angle of approach. Maybe they surreptitiously aid the other NPCs of the "Children of Westcrown" from behind curtains / beneath the stage (in various cut outs) in surviving the rigors of the "live ammo play" rather than directly performing the play. While this would shorten the sections of Chapter 2 pertaining to all but performing the play, it would retain it as an element where they participate in a pro-active manner. And, while they are covertly attempting to keep various NPCs alive throughout the play, they can attempt to get a good look at the various persons in the audience that will come up at a later point.
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Man that sorta sucks I'm really looking forward to running this part of the adventure for my players (so excited it I'm making it part of my CotCT campaign lol).
Still the important information about the Shadow Beasts is found at the Mayor's after party. So basically you need a way for them to get in. Since the entire house, the time-line of the party and guest list is detailed for you all you really need is to get the PCs interested in getting to the party.
Your options:
1) The party can attempt subterfuge and disguise themselves as caterers, entertainers, waiters or even distant nobility (from Egorian perhaps). They will still need to massage the party to try and learn where the entrance is to the Asmodean Knot, the difference is how they go about it. (Talking with other servants, eavesdropping on nobility, or impressing guests) It's important that they learn about the weird phenomena going on in the mansion.
2) If the PCs do decide to track the source of the Shadowbeasts, they'll find themselves at the old Pathfinder lodge. The one that is tightly locked and warded against intrusion. The key they'll learn (after some research) is somewhere within the Mansion.
If you read the outline from the first installment, you'll see that the shadowbeasts are linked with the PF lodge, and the overarching plot.
Cut the play, instead have them investigate and hunt shadowbeasts, finding out that the Lodge has some resonance for them.
Get them to about the right level, then have the mayor decide to invite them to his party, to claim affiliation with these great slayers of shadowbeasts, which is a pretty solid political move, and gets your players where but you and they should want to be.
As usual, our ever-resourceful posters have come up with some very good ideas. If these don't suit, come back again and I'll get my thinking cap on for you as well.
Rich
Who says that they have to act in the play? Have them be techies, stage illusionists, fight instructors, and stage managers. That meets all of their objections: access without risk, control over their fate (via coaching rather than doing) and if they fail, all they've wasted is a week. They can always go back to following the shadow beasts. They're not going anywhere.
And, if you want a second crack at it, have the play fail spectacularly without them and have a command performance demanded by the mayor. And if the second play is not satisfactory, the theater impressario dies. Voila! A second chance to run the same adventure while still allowing the players to follow their dead end.
Sadly, everything discussed here came up at the table.
They're lukewarm at best about the uncertainty surrounding the mayor's manor. Even if I route several followed Shadowbeats back to Delvehaven, I'm probably going to have a hard sell getting them back to the idea that they need the keys.
We discussed everything from being crew on the play to the party creating their own competing play that they can control to sneaking in at the mayor's place as caterers. They're aware that a woman claiming to be a Pathfinder claims that there might be keys and information in the mayor's place. It's just too... tenuous for them to stick their necks out.
I think what I need is something more concrete for them to unearth that links their investigations back. Some way for them to independently come to believe that a raid on the Asmodean Knot is their best course of action.
It's not that the player is opposed to the material as written. It's that two of the four PCs are, and two are ambivalent.
Thanks for the input so far though guys.
Sadly, everything discussed here came up at the table.
They're lukewarm at best about the uncertainty surrounding the mayor's manor. Even if I route several followed Shadowbeats back to Delvehaven, I'm probably going to have a hard sell getting them back to the idea that they need the keys.
We discussed everything from being crew on the play to the party creating their own competing play that they can control to sneaking in at the mayor's place as caterers. They're aware that a woman claiming to be a Pathfinder claims that there might be keys and information in the mayor's place. It's just too... tenuous for them to stick their necks out.
I think what I need is something more concrete for them to unearth that links their investigations back. Some way for them to independently come to believe that a raid on the Asmodean Knot is their best course of action.
It's not that the player is opposed to the material as written. It's that two of the four PCs are, and two are ambivalent.
Thanks for the input so far though guys.
Then make it personal. Have some nebulous sort shadowing them (with obscene stealth capability) whilst they are doing there thing with the shadow critters, run up, poke one or more with a needle ... and leave. After each character has been "blood drawn", see if anyone can make the DC 25 or 30+ Knowledge checks to realize that perhaps some one is going to use the blood for horrible magics ... and it's up to them to track the culprit down before the next new moon. As it so happens, their sleuthing efforts lead them to the mayor's manor on the night of a major shindig, with all kinds of major players on the political scene of Westcrown in attendance. The shadowy culprit leads them on a chase into the bowels of the manor ... and thus to the rest of the mayhem and violence awaiting them in this Chapter...
Creative Director
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One option, although it does mean waiting a bit longer, is to smile and nod and proceed as your players wish. The third adventure, "What Lies in Dust," can work fine without going on this adventure, but if the PCs start it without the hints and keys and clues that playing "The Sixfold Trial" provides, it's gonna be a lot tougher.
My advice, then, is to go ahead and either run a side adventure for the PCs that doesn't have much to do with the plot of the AP (perhaps one of the three suggested adventures in "Bastards of Erebus") and then, once you have a copy of "What Lies in Dust" handy, you can run the PCs attempt to explore Delvehaven.
If they luck out and kick ass and finish that adventure... good for them! But if they find the place to simply be more dangerous and tough than they expected and need more XP and gear and clues, by that point you can weave into the story the fact that those exact clues exist in the Mayor's manor, at which point a DIFFERENT gala event at the Mayor's house leaves him and the staff drunk and distracted so the PCs can sneak in there to look around.
But in the end, if you have PCs who are just too timid to go on adventures... that might be a symptom of an entirely different problem. It might help to just point-blank ask the players WHY they're afraid to go on adventures; if the reason's something like "We always feel tricked into going on adventures that are too tough with not enough reward," or "We don't like roleplaying and just want to kill things," then you know how to fix things so that they're more fun for them.
Thing is, in the one-off I ran while waiting for this module to arrive, the party bagged themselves a Shadowgarm. Now they think they have an angle on the Shadowbeats and are comfortable that they can at least entertain going up against them head-to-head. The current plan is to start following Shadowbeasts to try and figure out where they're coming from. While I can start unleashing more and more potent shadow creatures, revealing that Shadowgarms are but the least of Westcrown's problems, I've got absolutely zero idea how to tie any of this back into the adventure path's canonical plot.
Like James said, waiting for What Lies in Dust should give you a lot of ideas. If you are dealing with cocky players though who think they have the shadow beast threat in the bag there are ample opportunities to show them that all of Westcrown avoids the dark for a reason - in fact, Pathfinder #29's Bestiary is all about that (sadly that's still a few months off). In the short term, shadow mastiffs (from the Bonus Bestiary) and a few swarms of your typical shadows might send them running for the light. Check out that picture of the shadowed streets in the Westcrown article in PF #25, and remember that not everything that happens in the dark occurs as a set, level-appropriate encounter. A few dozen glowing eyes might just make them rethink the severity of Westcrown's plight.
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There's also another potential option: if your players are showing interest in supporting or even joining the resistance, you might "tweak" the hooks (and, possinly, the play) a bit. Maybe one of the members of the resistance approaches them and suggests that completing the play would be to their advantage, i.e. when the word spreads that it was played succesfully, it will make the commoners feel that despite oppression, they can stand up to the ruling caste? Maybe someone even rewrote parts of it; perhaps even one of the people close to the mayor (i.e. the PCs are handed the rewritten script, instead of the original one; adjust the adventure a bit to reflect this)? Maybe a known playwright (who is secretly part of the resistance) did it, and the PCs save him from the shadow beasts, and he offers them a chance to make history by acting out the play? Or, what if Janiven or Arael had a hand in it, and it is one of the reasons which drew the Order's attention to them?
Anyway, if I were in your shoes, I'd definitely play up the role of the resistance in this one.
(note: I don't have this adventure yet, so I don't know which sort of hooks or how much "railroading" it has, other than the PCs are supposed to be cast members in the play, and it takes place after the mayor's dinner)
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There's also another potential option: if your players are showing interest in supporting or even joining the resistance, you might "tweak" the hooks (and, possinly, the play) a bit. Maybe one of the members of the resistance approaches them and suggests that completing the play would be to their advantage, i.e. when the word spreads that it was played succesfully, it will make the commoners feel that despite oppression, they can stand up to the ruling caste? Maybe someone even rewrote parts of it; perhaps even one of the people close to the mayor (i.e. the PCs are handed the rewritten script, instead of the original one; adjust the adventure a bit to reflect this)? Maybe a known playwright (who is secretly part of the resistance) did it, and the PCs save him from the shadow beasts, and he offers them a chance to make history by acting out the play? Or, what if Janiven or Arael had a hand in it, and it is one of the reasons which drew the Order's attention to them?
Anyway, if I were in your shoes, I'd definitely play up the role of the resistance in this one.
(note: I don't have this adventure yet, so I don't know which sort of hooks or how much "railroading" it has, other than the PCs are supposed to be cast members in the play, and it takes place after the mayor's dinner)
The play at its core is about an honest man fighting against people in power. Performing it is akin to showing "V for Vendetta" in Mussolini's Italy, if your players are seeking the whole rebellion vs. the evil empire strategy then performing the 6 trials successfully will not just endear them to the mayor, but also to the people as well (hence the Fame points for successfully performing the play). So rather than selling the play as a means to getting into the Mansion, sell it as a method of sewing further hope among the people.
As Prince Hamlet would tell you: "The play's the thing."
There are rewards for performing the play beyond just a mayoral invitation.
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Or if you want to play mean:
Some of the Children of Westcrown see this as THEIR opportunity to make a difference if the PCs won't. Choose a handful of them to audition for the play (something the PCs will guess is beyond their capacity but not their own). Or if this fails to spring the PCs into action, have the Children perform the play with the players playing each of the parts anyway but each handling an NPC. When their NPCs are dead or dying, it might help the players differentiate between what it is to be a hero and what it is to be only occasionally "heroic".
I don't really like shaming the PCs into action but if they are completely paralyzed by the unknown, then they are not really the heroic types that Westcrown is crying out for. As James says, perhaps this conservative caution is a product of something else that's going on.
However, I can also understand that the PCs might just plain not like the spoonfed carrot approach - particularly for a connection that appears to them weak. Perhaps just strengthening the connection between success in the play and what they need to achieve is the best thing. Perhaps you can construct another reason for them to want to get into the mayor's household while at the same time making it obvious that unless you are invited, things are going to be very difficult there.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
First up, I really appreciate everyone's input. This is a great community. I'm going to reply to key points.
One option, although it does mean waiting a bit longer, is to smile and nod and proceed as your players wish. The third adventure, "What Lies in Dust," can work fine without going on this adventure, but if the PCs start it without the hints and keys and clues that playing "The Sixfold Trial" provides, it's gonna be a lot tougher.
I think I'm going to go this route. In general my group is very good and tend not to be threatened by much. Getting in over their heads may be an interesting and new experience.
But in the end, if you have PCs who are just too timid to go on adventures... that might be a symptom of an entirely different problem.
I want to clarify: these PCs aren't timid at all. Rather, they're smart. They're out to control the circumstances even if that's a risky business. The problem here ultimately is that an NPC the PCs don't know has come and strung a rather lengthy string of events that might be useful. From their perspective there's got to be a more productive way to risk their necks. So, really, it's not about timid, it's about the hooks not applying to this species of insurgent.
Like James said, waiting for What Lies in Dust should give you a lot of ideas. If you are dealing with cocky players though who think they have the shadow beast threat in the bag there are ample opportunities to show them that all of Westcrown avoids the dark for a reason - in fact, Pathfinder #29's Bestiary is all about that (sadly that's still a few months off). In the short term, shadow mastiffs (from the Bonus Bestiary) and a few swarms of your typical shadows might send them running for the light. Check out that picture of the shadowed streets in the Westcrown article in PF #25, and remember that not everything that happens in the dark occurs as a set, level-appropriate encounter. A few dozen glowing eyes might just make them rethink the severity of Westcrown's plight.
I think you're right. I think this may be an appropriate time to teach a lesson. The dottari are incompetent and the hellknights have their own agenda that doesn't involve the liberation of the people but... that doesn't mean that the challenges are something that is just beyond the abilities of a few people with a few PC/NPC class levels to cope with. Maybe the dottari are entirely out of their depth. I think it's time to make that clear.
There's also another potential option: if your players are showing interest in supporting or even joining the resistance, you might "tweak" the hooks (and, possinly, the play) a bit.
We discussed that to a great extent. The PCs are very much willing to support Arael's underground movement but they're doing it um... realistically. I've mentioned in another thread that my player is very fluent on modern military theory and current-generation warfare including insurgency/counter-insurgency issues. This isn't "plays a lot of Counterstrike", but rather "reads a lot of material on the topic". He's applying real-life methodology and technique to the fantasy world. It's keeping me hopping, I'll tell you.
If the PCs get involved with a play - which is on the table at some point - it'll be about delivering a message to the people of Westcrown. There's been some talk about guerrilla attacks, taking over plays in the middle of their performance to deliver a short and treasonous act then vanishing before the authorities can arrest them. That'll get talked about.
The biggest problem with the resistance is that the "main" PC knows how this has to go down. She's aware that they need more money and more strong arms behind them before they can openly start challenging the establishment. She's talking about setting up a shadow government, ready to assume legitimacy as the current one is toppled. She's talking about instituting a parallel set of laws (and courts!) that supplant the official set and are more fair, just, and sensible to the people of Westcrown. Unfortunately you can't just STOP obeying the absurd official laws because you don't like them. The dottari and hellknights will crack down on that in a big way. So... the Children need a larger, better-trained, better-funded structure before they can start to turn the hearts of the people. Make the tax man afraid to come around... that sort of thing.
Now you can see what I'm up against.
Some of the Children of Westcrown see this as THEIR opportunity to make a difference if the PCs won't. Choose a handful of them to audition for the play (something the PCs will guess is beyond their capacity but not their own). Or if this fails to spring the PCs into action, have the Children perform the play with the players playing each of the parts anyway but each handling an NPC. When their NPCs are dead or dying, it might help the players differentiate between what it is to be a hero and what it is to be only occasionally "heroic".
Sigh. Yeah. One of the PCs is selfless. The others would do their best to talk the NPCs out of being foolish. That's the way they see it. This play, and the deep unknown of messing with the mayor's home is a foolish waste of resources. They'd find a way of expressing that to the NPCs. As for truly faceless others, well, stupid is as stupid does. Arael already volunteered to fill any slot if only some of the PCs were willing to help Ghantasavos. "So are you going to be an actor to fill every role in every murderplay performed in Westcrown to prevent the innocent from doing in these plays?" The PCs would be more likely to burn the playhouses down to stop the practice of mortescci than to be shamed into performing. They're very practical that way.
I think what I'm going to do is follow the trend laid out by the Shadowgarm. Aberrations. The party can stalk some, which will be dangerous since four people pulling Stealth against a Perception is bound to fail eventually. Every hour, they pull a check. Roughly an hour before dawn, whatever they're following seeks and merges with a "puddle". The puddle slides over the ground unnaturally, and seeks the Pathfinder lodge where it seeps through the walls surrounding it, vanishing. And hour after nightfall, the process reverses as the beasts ooze out, spread through the city, then rise from their puddles.
I'll just have to set up the lodge as clearly not a place they want to mess with right now.
In the interim, the night shall be dangerous.
What about an early run-in with Sian Daemodus while they are chasing down some Shadowgarms? Sian is aware of the PCs at the start of the module, and might take it upon herself to do a little poking. Alternatively, her role could be broadened. Chammady and Ecardian Drovenge most likely desire additional confusion and cover in the coming months as they prepare for their betrayal. Increasing the level of shadow beasts to the point where the city's defenses are strained could prove to be very useful. To that end, Sian could also be tasked to try and figure out how to encourage more beasts to emerge from the old Pathfinder lodge.
Any such encounter would be bereft of information besides the fact that, how interesting, someone else seems to be poking around the same places, bur apparently for very different reasons. That may give the PCs the impetus to try and follow Sian (near impossible unless you pull some dice rolls), or, more likely, do some social networking to figure out who she is. Either way, news that she has been hired on in the mayor's house would be very interesting...
What about an early run-in with Sian Daemodus while they are chasing down some Shadowgarms? Sian is aware of the PCs at the start of the module...
Sigh. In my campaign, the Children are entirely underground. Virtually nobody knows about them. Arael, Janiven, Morrosino and the There Are Eleven Base Classes In The Core Rulebook Crew, and Gorvio's uncle Jacovo. Other than those folk, there are exactly two people who know anything meaningful. One is "Korg". Korg is a surviving Bastard who is currently working FOR the party because a} there was an interesting story twist I didn't want to reward with back-stabbing and b} he's rather afraid of the party. The other is Bluehood. She showed up on one of the PC's windowsill a couple days after they dropped off a Shadowgarm corpse as requested. She shared some info on what the things are, then vanished. It's a mystery how exactly she tracked down the PC and I was considering hinting that Bluehood and Ailyn Ghantasavos are one and the same but couldn't think of a twist that would make it worthwhile.
I may lean on that last nugget at some point here. If the PCs mess with a few more Shadowbeats, Bluehood could show up and drop that she's come to understand the beasts are originating within Delvehaven but that she can't get in. Maybe she should show off a badly burned limb to convey that there's real danger involved in just plowing into the Pathfinder lodge.
Given I know nothing about the defenses that are no doubt documented in CoT#27 I need to be careful. I figure to make things mutable, ever-changing. That way when I end up with canonical material it'll be easier to resume.
But anyway, thanks for the idea. It just won't work in my campaign. My players are treating this as an insurgent uprising, not as a mystery.
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I am glad I read this before trying to run this adventure. My PCs are notorious for derailing things like this. So I have added some sub-plots to allow them into the mayor's manor.
I must agree that the delivery and justifications for participating in the play are incredibly "thin" - "Anorexic" even, and would ruin the tenuous trust I have built between the Children of Westcrown and the group.
This is being a really gritty campaign and if the Children of Westcrown suggested this folly it would end any hope of them working with my PCs again.