Is Color Spray Overpowered?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Scarab Sages

I like that idea for Spell Mastery, but then I would consider opening it up for other casters as well. Wizards get an extra oomph, but the casting time benefit is useful to all.


I don't think I've ever hit more than two bad guys with a 15' cone as long as I've been playing 3.X D&D. I must be playing with the wrong DMs. :-)

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Set wrote:
Shape Spell would be significantly less good than Scult Spell, which more than doubles the area of some spells!

Are you kidding?! The Archmage gets an ability which is a pale shadow of this in exchange for permanently losing a 6th-level spell slot. A larger area is peanuts compared to control over which squares are affected!

I honestly don't know how to price something this good. My initial guess would be +3... shaped maximized fireball seems roughly equivalent to the new meteor swarm, balancing utility against power. Could be up or down by 1, though... it's the kind of thing I'd playtest extensively before making any decisions!

Kirth Gersen wrote:
at high levels, familiars can perform your somatic components for you

Danger, Will Robinson! I almost did this, but then one of my players pointed out that Still Spell becomes nigh upon useless. :) I went with a different angle, which saw play this week:

Spoiler:
Once per day, starting at level 1, your familiar can cast a spell for you. Both of you must spend the action, either of you can provide any of the components, but the familiar is considered the caster for all other purposes. It can share a spell or designate you as the toucher with the relevant familiar abilities; also, it can (and you can't) concentrate to control a spell it has cast. Range limit equals empathic link. To counterbalance, if your empathic link is broken for any reason (including the familiar being unconscious or dead) you suffer the same penalties as a wizard who has lost his bonded item.

tejón wrote:
Danger, Will Robinson! I almost did this, but I went with a different angle, which saw play this week: ** spoiler omitted **

Ooh, yeah! I like that: some limiting factor might indeed be in order. Lemme look at it some more. Thanks for the heads-up!

Scarab Sages

hogarth wrote:
I don't think I've ever hit more than two bad guys with a 15' cone as long as I've been playing 3.X D&D. I must be playing with the wrong DMs. :-)

No, you just have to slaughter more innocent villagers. ;)

By the way Tejon, I love the idea of familiars concentrating on spells for the caster. Even without your other ideas, that is a solid enough bonus for a wizard/sorcerer to actually want a familiar.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Kirth: Just to explain reasoning, the 1/day hard limit is to match the bonded item. That gives you an extra max-level spell slot which allows spontaneous casting from your entire book; the familiar gives you the ability to be in two places at once or act when restrained, which seems like a pretty good trade. Stuff that was added after seeing it in play this weekend included the assertion that both of you spend the action, the penalty whenever your empathic link is down (originally it was only if the familiar dies), and the decision that since the familiar is the caster it is also solely responsible for concentration. (It would also make spell penetration rolls using its own ability score.)

Jal Dorak wrote:
By the way Tejon, I love the idea of familiars concentrating on spells for the caster. Even without your other ideas, that is a solid enough bonus for a wizard/sorcerer to actually want a familiar.

My version only lets the familiar concentrate when it was the caster, which can only happen once per day... the ability to pass concentration back and forth for any spell would be pretty strong, beyond a feat IMO. The only precedent for it is solicit psicrystal from the XPH, which was a 3rd-level power.

Definitely a cool idea, and definitely should be implemented somehow, but definitely not at will for free. :)

Edit @Abraham below - if it wasn't clear, my version also consumes the prepared spell or spell slot.


tejón wrote:
Jal Dorak wrote:
By the way Tejon, I love the idea of familiars concentrating on spells for the caster. Even without your other ideas, that is a solid enough bonus for a wizard/sorcerer to actually want a familiar.

My version only lets the familiar concentrate when it was the caster, which can only happen once per day... the ability to pass concentration back and forth for any spell would be pretty strong, beyond a feat IMO. The only precedent for it is solicit psicrystal from the XPH, which was a 3rd-level power.

Definitely a cool idea, and definitely should be implemented somehow, but definitely not at will for free. :)

There was something else that did it too, but I can't remember where. It may have been in the epic book, and was a feat. I know there is a feat in the PHB 2 that allows a familiar to cast spells for you, but it eats up your spell slots, and is limited by the familiar's intelligence. I'll have to look and see if there is anything else I seem to think there was, but I can't remember specifically.

Dark Archive

tejón wrote:
Set wrote:
Shape Spell would be significantly less good than Scult Spell, which more than doubles the area of some spells!
Are you kidding?! The Archmage gets an ability which is a pale shadow of this in exchange for permanently losing a 6th-level spell slot.

If the Archmage ability sucks compared to Sculpt Spell, a +1 metamagic, that's the Archmages problem.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Set wrote:
If the Archmage ability sucks compared to Sculpt Spell, a +1 metamagic, that's the Archmages problem.

No, it's better than Sculpt Spell. It sucks compared to your proposed Shape Spell, which is so much better than Sculpt Spell that I don't know how to clarify my point any further.

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