
Ardenup |
Hi. My gaming group has been steadily switching/multiclassing out thier old 3.5 char to PF characters.
The cleric became a Cleric 8(war, good domain)/Crus1/Warb1/RKV10 (take 8th level last and the War domain weapon mastery effectively lets you take Martial study for ANY TOB Manuvere you qualify for. Nice.
The Warblade/MO9 stayed the same
We have a fighter20
Fighter10/Rogue10
Crusader20
I waited to change my Warmage/Sandshaper to a Wiz or Sorc 20.
Normally I prefer sorcerers because you can freely cast any spell you know. However I checked both Wiz/sor's classes and noticed the school abilities- It seems the conjurer/transmuter school powers are far better than all others.
Just my opinion, but it seems that the benefits of free extend summons, a ray that ignores SR and free teleports are far more useful in and out of combat than most of the other school powers. Mostly because most of the other classes have either 'touch' offensive powers (which means you gotta close with a target-ouch)
or their rays are subject to SR- evokers is force damage but doesn't do much (normal ray is 1d6+1/2levels = 10d6+6 at 20, force ray is no hit but only does 1d4+10 at lvl 20) hope I'm reading this right.
Dimensional steps is a confusing read- you get 30ft per level range but can only take it in 5ft steps? Still useful.
Transmuters is also great +5 to any physical ability can't be ignored (especially if you change shape alot). Telekintic fist is pretty good (you can puch ghosts with it) and free shapeshifts.
I kinda thought the rest were...meh. This is only for a straight wiz 20 I might add. The build I am considering is actually an Illusionist or enchanter since I'm building a Gish. Aura of Despiar is nice for melee and Gtr Invis for free is good for BC at the start of a fight.
So... very unsure what to take here. I usually like to focus on damage/BC can conjuration offers both
Was looking at Fighter2/
Focused Specialist Wiz8 (illusionist -for free invis or conjurer- better spells and longer summons or enchanter -save or sucks and aura)/
EK10
Focus on wielding a scimitar and buckler with improved crit/critical feats for melle. Still gets (Away from books) 4 9th level castings per day (3 have to be school).
Bonded Item vs familiar is har here too (normally it go item but since I'd have BAB 16 or 17, my familiar would to, making me have an effective melee buddy (Improved Familiar feat of course- hippogriff is nice). Do familiars/animal companions get feats in PF.
Ideas?
The reason I bring this up is Conjuration and Transmutation were pretty conclusively the better school in 3.5 (mostly due to lack of spell range in all the books) is this still the case.

meatrace |

Well transmutation is definitely weaker, mainly because of the breaking up of Polymorph, but it's still a very strong school.
My character is now a Diviner (switched from Universal when we translated to PF Final) and I quite like it, though it might not suit a more combat oriented character's taste. Always being able to act on a surprise round is freaking hot though and every rogue should dip a lvl in Diviner IMO.
If you are multiclassed so you can buff yourself in combat then transmuter isn't bad, if you want to be able to throw up a quick battlefield control spell before wading into combat then conjurer, etc. It's all good. Remember though that abilities like the bonus to stats from Transmuter IIRC only scale with your WIZARD level, not if you multiclass.

Ardenup |
Well, I think I've decided (require feedback) to remain a Warmage but rebuild my feat selection to fit PF
Reasons
Group factors: There are nine of us
Scout's:
1 Fighter/Rogue (Flanker, Sneak Attack DD)
1 Beguiler/JPM (Save or die or become a slave, in combat healer)
Melee:
1 Warblade/MO9 (charger, damage dealer)
1 Crusader, (lockdown tripper, in combat healer)
1 Cleric/RKV, (charger, buffer, healer)
1 Paladin, (Damage dealer, backup healer)
1 Fighter, (Tripper, Bull Rusher, AOO damage focused)
Caster:
1 Psion/Gish -Homebrew Psionic JPM type class (Blaster)
1 Warmage/Sandshaper/IOSV (Summoner/Blaster)
Group tactics:
The Beguiler handles save or die and the Psion does the blasting with save or die as well(usually empowered energy missiles or psychotic break).
6 of us already have SOME healing ability- Generally the Crusader and Beguiler/JPM handles in combat healing and the Cleric and Paladin sort it out after combat.
Because the Paladin and Crusader's abilties tend to have very short ranges we to bunch up alot (they tend to swarm, flank and lockdown enemies) The Warblade and Cleric charge about the palce heedless charging anyone we can't pin down.
The fighter tends to bulldoze loose enemies towards the paladin and crusader. The Fighter/Rogue Flanks with anyone he can and lays the sneak attack smack.
All bar me are at least decent warriors so we don't get caught out.
Having so much overlapping healing helps when players can't make it or if the party has to split (I often throw that at them)
Me- I tend to handle Battlefield Control and Summoning. We tend to run big battles. We are currently playing Rise of the Rune lords and I generally double enemy fodder or harder minions and level up enemy NPC's to bump the encounter level to suit such a large party.
Beacuse we swarm/bunch up alot
We get hit with area spells a fair bit (we mitigate that with ALOT or healing and buffing)
What I'd like to do I rebuild my
Warmage/Sandshaper/IOSV (Big spell selection and hard to hit but sucky melee.)
I'm not sure but thinking (We all use Flaws by the way)Human
1 War1 Armoured Mage (light), Warmage Edge, 1st-Spl Fcs Abj, H- Spl Fcs Evo, Still Spell, Gtr Spell Fcs: Evo
2 War2
3 War3 Advanced Learning (Persistant Blade), Gtr Spl Fcs Abj
4 War4
5 War5 Sculpt Spell
6 War6 Eclectic Learning (Invisibility)
7 War7 Sudden Empower, Touchstone
8 War8 Armoured Mage (Medium)
9 Sandshaper1 Desert Insight, Dust Magic, Sandshape, Skill Fcs: Spellcraft
10 War9
11 IOSV1 Warding 1/day, Unimpeachable Abj, Red veil, Empower Spell
12 IOSV2 Unanswerable Strike +2, Orange Veil
13 IOSV3 Warding 2/day, Yellow veil, Rapid Metamagic
14 IOSV4 Reactive Warding, Green Veil
15 Arch1 Mastery of Shaping, Residual Metamagic
16 IOSV5 Warding 3/day, Blue Veil
17 IOSV6 Unanswerable Strike +4, Double Warding, Indigo Veil, Summon Elemental
18 IOSV7 Kaleidoscopic Doom, Violet veil, Warding 4/day
19 Arch2 Mastery of Elements, Heighten Spell
20 Arch3 Arcane Reach
Primarily I play as a summoner/blaster. Didn't bother with Augment summoning as most creatures are plenty tough anyway. Alot of my conjuration spells which create effects don't allow saves.
Usual tactics
Rd1- B/C spell
Rd2- Summon
Rd3- Shaped DD spell
Subsequent rounds if very dependent on the rest of the party. I try to focus on immobilising opponents by throwing cretures at them. Beyond that I don't get too involved in battle planning.
2 reasons:1. I'm DM so playing a straight Summon/Blaster who hangs at the rear stops me from unconsciously ruining the plot (I discourage powerful divination magic for this reason)
2. Being DM involves enough work, by having a fixed (admittedly) large spell list and rapid metamagic means I have very little to keep track of reguarding spell preparation.
I think this will do. any combos that could be better?
I thought hard about going Focused Specialist but think I need a simpler build.

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I believe the language in the conjuration power means you can't teleport, for example, 33 Ft, but you can go 5ft, 10ft, 300ft, etc.
I think character concept is probably the most important part, followed by what you want to do with the character. Also, your opposition schools are almost more important than your specialty school.
But yea, conjurer and transmuter both are cool. Diviner is very fun for a most non-combat wizard or buffer (I'm playing one in Red Hand of Doom). Really, if you want to summon stuff, be a conjurer, if you want to morph stuff, be a transmuter.
-Drillboss

Ardenup |
Depends on your level- if you are first, don't, it won't last long enough to help.
SM get better as you level up. Generally Pick stuff that can grapple to hold stuff up, Cats to pounce for damage, High AC stuff for Meatshields. Some combine these roles- Most of the Summon Desert ally spells are great as they are constructs and ones like to Dire tortise have good AC's with Improved Grab.

tejón RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |

Dunno... even with only a single round of action at 1st level, there are some pretty good options. Trip attack from the riding dog is solid compared to many other first-level spells. Two options for poison are nothing to overlook. You can mount the pony and move 200, or just block a doorway for a round with it.
Summon the eagle, cast animate rope on the subsequent round and then get the eagle to carry the rope to a non-adjacent enemy, giving the "tie and knot" command as the eagle drops the rope onto the target. Two rounds, yes. Two spells, yes. You're done for the day, yes. But at that level even the BBEG is probably through once hogtied.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Given your party line up, I might suggest ... "Universalist."
If you do choose to specialize, and there are several 'knocks' against the "univeralist," keep in mind the second point - namely that your damage output is not going to be essential to your party's success. So go with the Transmutter option.

Majuba |

If you're starting out at 20th, an Abjurer is actually quite a nice specialist - and it's not hard to find an Abjuration spell at each level to fill your bonus slot. Energy immunity + Energy Absorption means good survival even against something like great wyrm dragon breath.
The cleric became a Cleric 8(war, good domain)/Crus1/Warb1/RKV10 (take 8th level last and the War domain weapon mastery effectively lets you take Martial study for ANY TOB Manuvere you qualify for. Nice.
No need to take the 8th level cleric last - "you can change the feat chosen each time you use this ability."

Dennis da Ogre |

Level 20? I find it hard to say no to diviner... sure the spell selection for bonus spells isn't the best but the +10 to Initiative and automatic 20 is pretty hard to beat at high levels where going first is so important. Add in a solid DEX and improved initiative (If you have get spell compendium you can throw in Nerve Skitter for a little insurance) and you can pretty much plan on going first every combat.

Ardenup |
The cleric became a Cleric 8(war, good domain)/Crus1/Warb1/RKV10 (take 8th level last and the War domain weapon mastery effectively lets you take Martial study for ANY TOB Manuvere you qualify for. Nice.
No need to take the 8th level cleric last - "you can change the feat chosen each time you use this ability."
True, not sure if I'd allow it though- taking cleric 8 at lvl 8 rather than 20 means martial study as your War domain combat feat (even with the ability to change it) would be initiatior level4 when you first learn it- only high enough for a second level manuvere. I wonder if it SHOULD work being able to swap a IL 4th feat for martial study at IL 16 or 17....?
It's my call as dm but, I dunno.
your opinions? This would be a very powerful ability for the level. Basically he'd be able to constantly reform a martial study feat whenever he liked.
The Eternal Blade got a similar ability.
By the way- we are NOT starting at 20 (I just get the group to give me a rough 20lvl run down on where they'd like to go. This lets me massage PF encounters to suit.
Universalist point is noted. Would need to be a good build to get me interested. Being a Spontaneous Caster with Rapid Metamagic involves less work. Maybe a straight sorc, with Arcane Bloodline?
Cheers.

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I would suggest that if you really want to give Pathfinder a good try out, try it without adding any of the WOTC splatbook stuff. They're not really balanced well together for the most part, and the Pathfinder base classes are no longer boring platforms whose sole purpose is to prepare you for a "sexier" PrC.
As to the original question, it really depends on what kind of wizard you want to play, what kind of personality. Different schools represent different mindsets of magic. Are you going to be showy, subtle, bookwormish, action oriented?, Are you looking to blend magic with something else such as roguery or archery? Each answer you can give can lead you down a different path to that question.