Couple (well, trio) of quick questions


Rules Questions


My players wizard can hear but not see two spellcasters casting a spell, according to pathfinder skills he must SEE, according to 3.5 he must SEE or HEAR? I believe its a -5 for not seeing or for not hearing in 3.5, does a similar rule exist in pathfinder?

Is it possible to take weapon focus(melee touch) or (ranged touch) and weapon spec etc? Or are they _weapon_ only in pathfinder?

Sneak attack has been discussed in a similar vein, so I wont ask, except to ask has it been confirmed by devs that SA is useable with "attacks from within 30ft" (weaponlike spell etc)

Final question.. What does multiattack do for animal companions or other monsters with three primary attacks? I believe the druid AC gets it for free at some level or another.


vikhik wrote:
My players wizard can hear but not see two spellcasters casting a spell, according to pathfinder skills he must SEE, according to 3.5 he must SEE or HEAR? I believe its a -5 for not seeing or for not hearing in 3.5, does a similar rule exist in pathfinder?

From PRD (Magic):

"Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell."

A Fireball, for example, can be 'thrown blindly', but a Magic Missile cannot.

vikhik wrote:
Is it possible to take weapon focus(melee touch) or (ranged touch) and weapon spec etc? Or are they _weapon_ only in pathfinder?

From PRD (Feats):

"Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat."

A ray is included in the description, and is resolved as a ranged touch attack. A melee touch is not precisely an 'unarmed strike', but I wouldn't see any problem allowing a creature who has 'Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)' to apply it to a melee touch, too. (after all, a creature can take 'Weapon Focus (Bite)', even though a Bite is not a 'weapon', but a 'weapon-like' attack - a Natural Attack, in fact - ; and, since a Touch Attack "that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.", is a 'weapon-like' attack for me...)

vikhik wrote:
Sneak attack has been discussed in a similar vein, so I wont ask, except to ask has it been confirmed by devs that SA is useable with "attacks from within 30ft" (weaponlike spell etc)

From PRD (Classes-> Rogue):

"Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet."

So, yes.

vikhik wrote:
Final question.. What does multiattack do for animal companions or other monsters with three primary attacks? I believe the druid AC gets it for free at some level or another.

From PRD (Classes->Druid):

"Multiattack: An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with one of its natural weapons, albeit at a –5 penalty."

On creatures with three or more Natural Attacks, Multiattack lessen the penalties to secondary Natural Attacks from -5 to -2.
For example, a Horse with a Full Attack of "Bite +12, 2 Hooves +7", with the feat would have "Bite +12, 2 Hooves +10".
We would have to wait the Bestiary to have a clear idea of which attacks are considered primary Natural Attacks and which are secondary Natural Attacks, though (primary strike always at full BaB, secondary attacks strike always at BaB -5, with Multiattack at BaB -2).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So far it seems that claw/bite attacks are both primary (a change from 3.5, where bite was considered primary and claw secondary).


The Wraith wrote:
vikhik wrote:
My players wizard can hear but not see two spellcasters casting a spell, according to pathfinder skills he must SEE, according to 3.5 he must SEE or HEAR? I believe its a -5 for not seeing or for not hearing in 3.5, does a similar rule exist in pathfinder?

From PRD (Magic):

"Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell."

A Fireball, for example, can be 'thrown blindly', but a Magic Missile cannot.

I think he's talking about identifying a spell using the Spellcraft skill.

A -5 penalty sounds reasonable for not being able to see, IMO.


Sorry I was unclear - dming at the same time - I mean does to _identify_ a spell, does a wizard need to:

1. both see and hear the spell cast
2. just see or hear
3. just see

Secondly, I understand the book *implies* sneak attacks with spells with attack rolls are legitimate, but there were arguments for and against.. was there any dev(or nethys, he's almost a dev imo :P) response as to whether a spell can be used to sneak attack with. Mainly I care about the melee and ranged touch stuff, so thanks for clearing that up. Is there any way to properly weapon focus(melee touch spells?)

Thirdly, cat bite/claw/claw gets no benefit from multiattack.. this seems poorly thought out...


If it involves an attack roll, you can get bonus damage from sneak attack with it.

An Acid Splash might only do 1d3 damage, but how much damage is it going to do if you aim it right into your opponents eye?


Jabor wrote:

If it involves an attack roll, you can get bonus damage from sneak attack with it.

An Acid Splash might only do 1d3 damage, but how much damage is it going to do if you aim it right into your opponents eye?

+1. It's been FAQ'd.


vikhik wrote:
Is it possible to take weapon focus(melee touch) or (ranged touch) and weapon spec etc? Or are they _weapon_ only in pathfinder?

While considered armed with a touch range spell, a touch spell itself is not considered "weapon-like" enough to qualify as a weapon. Apparently a ray is considered "weapon-like" enough, and taking Weapon Focus (scimitar) would give you a +1 bonus when using flame blade.

"Clarification" here


So to sum up. Yes, minus five sounds perfectly reasonable and yes you can use weapon focus for ray. I do it all the time when I play a blaster wizard.

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