Use on any creature = self?


Rules Questions


When you're dealing with a character's abilities that allow him to lend benefit to another creature (wizard divination school "diviner's fortune," for example: "touch any creature"), can you also use it on the character himself?

Dark Archive

Brian Brus wrote:
When you're dealing with a character's abilities that allow him to lend benefit to another creature (wizard divination school "diviner's fortune," for example: "touch any creature"), can you also use it on the character himself?

He might have to touch himself, but what happens in the dungeon stays in the dungeon.


:-) Set, I was thinking the same thing.
But seriously: Yes?

Dark Archive

Brian Brus wrote:

:-) Set, I was thinking the same thing.

But seriously: Yes?

As far as I know, using spells as precedent, any effect that you can cast on someone else, you can cast on yourself, unless it *specifically says you can't.* (Which is pretty rare.)


Is he a creature? Can he touch himself? If the answer to both of those questions is yes then he can use it on the creature he touched, namely himself.


Possible exceptions?

Breath of Life? Where does the breath go? Well, I guess if he's really talented he could in effect be doing a form of Raise Dead there. But I think that might require a fairly exceptional escape artist check.

The only thing I could imagine a caster being able to cast upon someone else but not himself would fall into one of the following categories:

a) the effect of the spell is solely for correcting a condition in which he is unable to cast

b) a spell whose intent to affect the target in some way that puts the caster in a dominant position.

To clarify, you can't put yourself under a geis of some sort in order to prevent or oppose being under someone else's geis. Likewise, you can't auto-confirm will saves in this manner. "I put a geis on myself that specifically tells me to walk across a red-hot nail bed." You'd still have to do a will save to keep the geis in effect.


Takamonk wrote:

Possible exceptions?

Breath of Life? Where does the breath go? Well, I guess if he's really talented he could in effect be doing a form of Raise Dead there. But I think that might require a fairly exceptional escape artist check.

You can't cast spells when you are dead... or unconscious, otherwise sure :) Maybe a half orc at -5 HP? Die hard feat?

The Exchange

Paladin specifically says he can lay hands on him self, as a swift action.

Laying on other people takes longer.


Normally, there aren't any that are specifically worded as to prevent you from attempting to cast on yourself, but there are a few that won't work as intended.

Breath of Life - You can use it on yourself, oddly enough, but since you can't cast while dead, all it does is heal you.

Raise Dead (and any similar spell) - You can't cast while dead, unless you take a Ghost Template. In which case, you can't cast spells with material components (if I remember correctly).

XXX Person - If you play a non-humanoid character, these spells won't work on you at all.

Charm person/Geas/etc - If you need to be better friends with yourself, I guess there's nothing wrong with a little magical paxil. Likewise, because you're already presumably in control over your actions, these shouldn't affect you. Likewise, if you're partially capable of controlling yourself, you can't use these spells to counteract the controlling force over you. The special exception, I suppose, would be if you had multiple personalities. I would allow a mage personality to cast charm person on his rogue personality. This would be a very awkward way of playing a multiclass character, but I'd give them props for attempting it.

Dream - Spell requires you to be sleeping (which isn't the same as unconscious, but might as well be). I'm hoping there aren't too many evoker narcoleptics casting in their sleep.

Stabilize - I guess if you're a half-orc, maybe...

Status - I guess you could, but what's the point? Just look at your character sheet.

Helping Hand - Want to find yourself?

Remove Blindness/Deafness - Yeah, you can cast this on yourself, but you suffer the failure chance of doing so

Imbue with Spell Ability - Use a spell to transfer your spell abilities to yourself

Banishment - there was a thread about using this spell on yourself to banish yourself back to your home plane

Refuge - Well, I guess its target is an item, but you can't use your own item to teleport to yourself

Discern Location (debatable) - I guess if you're lost, using this spell would be of great use, but I wouldn't think that you should be able to scry yourself.

Remove paralysis - Except to remove the slow effect

Atonement - Because if you need to atone, you can't cast the spell

Soul Bind - because you'd be dead already

I'm sure there are plenty more, but I think you get the idea of the general gist of what's going on.

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