|
I've been DMing for quite a few years, but I lost interest a while ago and stopped near the end of the Savage Tide adventure path. Our rules were a muddle of 3.5, houserules, and the Pathfinder beta and there was only one or two players that could be depended on to show up. I just got tired of doing a lot of work to get the game ready and never having any fun(such is the nature of high-level adventures, I am told).
Anyway, some friends I made through my local comic store got interested in gaming and convinced me to run a few things for them. I started out small, kept it exclusively Pathfinder core rules, and we all had some fun. I talked the group into playing through Savage Tide, which I was anxious to try again since I had so much fun for the first half of the adventure path and wanted to see how much Pathfinder rules would improve the second half.
The first session started off rough, with most of them not taking anything seriously at first, but then that magical moment came where they started to get into it and think like characters. The second session was a blast. These guys, who had until recently thought of Dungeons and Dragons as kind of dorky were now talking about their characters outside of the game, planning their background...it was awesome.
Last night was the third session and things went...off.
The rogue character, who had previously found and kept some gold for himself, become a huge obstacle for the rest of the group. A particular obstacle in the first chapter of the adventure required a combination that only the rogue possessed and he decided to pretend he didn't have it. Things went downhill from there, with half the players trying to solve an unsolvable puzzle and the other half plotting to kill anyone who got in the way of robbing the family vault of the woman who hired them--including the woman that hired them.
I tried to explain what the consequences would be if they kept refusing to work together as a group, as well as what would happen if they did things that were blatantly evil in a civilized city, and they took things down a notch, didn't go chaotic evil.
I'm worried that the damage is done and the players that got a taste of evil and enjoyed it aren't going to have any fun now that they've toned their antics down, while the players that weren't interested in robbing everyone blind and killing the witnesses are going to have trouble trusting the rest of the group. I've seen these sort of things happen with more experienced groups, but these are new players. I don't know if they have the maturity yet to push past these kind of issues.
Has anyone else ever dealt with new players that went a little overboard with their characters? I feel like they haven't quite gotten that this is a cooperative game about pooling resources to achieve larger objectives. I honestly don't know if I want to keep running games for them if all they want to do is play an "evil" campaign. I definitely don't want to run that and half of the group doesn't want to, either.
Will they grow into their roles as they gain more experience gaming? Will they eventually figure out that collecting as much gold as possible isn't the point of the game? That playing some sort of evil, wish-fulfillment type of rogue wears thin and irritates the hell out of other players?
Sigh.
It sounds like a mixture of people getting a little over-excited and the a group that hasn't yet realised that rpgs are not wargames as such, but an exercise in collaborative storytelling.
As the GM, and official provider of the fun for the group, you are well within your rights to say "OK, if you want to play evil pcs, that's fine, but I don't want to run that kind of game."
If you can contact your players before the next session, discuss this with them. Get all of this in the open before you play. Dice rolling makes the emotions run high. Help them to see that player v GM is not the objective and playing it your way opens the door to a much better experience for everyone - including the stab-happy contingent.
|
Hey guys.
It's the hamartia of D&D. Some gamers want one kind of style and others prefer another. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a group that plays "evil" PCs or "DM vs PCs" if they like it -- it just won't work if one or more of the gamers don't like it. D&D has tons of different play atmospheres & styles. They're all equally legit. It's a rare and precious thing when all agree.
'Course, in this stuation, you're the DM and that makes it even more dynamic cuz you're different.
Are THEY enjoying the game?!!
Here's what I suggest: at the beginning of next session talk about what you want a little, what's fun for you and why you're not having fun.
'Course, with a group of gamers coming to a session for some ludicrous R&R, starting with that can be damn hard. Once you guys hit the table and start munching and opening books and joking and having 4 funny conversations simultaneously, well, do what you normally do to start (set minis or draw out the area on the mat or whatever).
Then when they're starting to pay attention (not 100%, 'course, cuz you'll be there all night) tell them, in a low-key voice, you aren't having fun anymore and that it may be the last session.
When they give you the worried looks and shut-up, change your tone to pleasant: "Hey,it's no biggie, there's lots of gaming styles out there; some groups have the DMvPC mentatlity and some don't. For me, I can't stand it. I'm just hoping we can figure out what we all kinda want... 'Cuz I do wanna play, just not like this."
Then talk and listen.
Hope this helps, good luck.
-W. E. Ray
PS: SPOILERS: I've done an amazing job not learning anything about STAP in the hope that I can find a good DM to run it for me. (I seem to always be the DM.) So, sorry, I can't read much of your posts, anything refering to STAP.
Ow - I'll definitely pop back in here later today to take a longer crack at this.
Short version - since there are all new players at the table (from the sound of things), and I am presuming that you know them away from the table as well, try to talk this out prior to your next session, ideally with getting the whole group together at a place like Five Guys or any similar, decent but not-expensive burger-n-fry joint (or Dennies, or IHOP or anything similar). The get together can help the group bond a bit, and it's not "at the table", which for some can really mess things up but for most (in my experience) helps set aside the "game started to suck quick" association with doing this at the 'game table'.
Good luck!
You could suggest for those that want an evil campaign and/or PC vs. GM campaign, one of them could run the game. Playing god is fun until the weight of responsibility comes crushing down upon your shoulders. The new perspective often makes unruly players more cooperative.
I'd say run them through a few sidequests to work out how you can adapt to their style if they can't adapt to yours.
Remember its a game for everyone to enjoy so if they'd rather play an evil campaign go ahead give them what they want!
Personally I'd throw in an npc who has a personal grudge against that rogue having suffered from his antics prior to the game start and have the rogue eventually learn he has a nemesis who has decided to make things nasty for him maybe even informing the group of some of the things he has pulled off where it can be explained off as him apparently working for the opposition!
Have they given you their character backgrounds?
|
Since they are new players, I would avoid being too heavy-handed (at first, anyway). With veteran players, if you start laying down the law, they tend to straighten up their acts because they want to keep playing. New players have less of an investment, and may be more inclined to walk away.
I would just talk to them about their expectations of the game, and what the pitfalls tend to be when players are playing evil, or otherwise incompatible, characters. Perhaps suggest that, since they are new to the game, things will run more smoothly if they take a more heroic approach, so that they can really see what the game has to offer.
Of course, if that's not getting anywhere, or if the players insist upon being disruptive despite your efforts, then the other suggestions upthread may be necessary.
Cleared out a bunch of random hyperbole. Posts were caught in the crossfire.
|
|
Cleared out a bunch of random hyperbole. Posts were caught in the crossfire.
I must have missed that, but thank you. I think.
To everyone else, I appreciate all the advice and guidance. I haven't been able to play since the session in question, but the players involved have all expressed regret for things going so far. The rogue seems to be the biggest problem and he admits to feeling bad the next day for plotting the death of his employer over a little extra gold. I don't think these guys are ready for an evil game. They want to be evil but they lack the stomach for actual evil consequences to their actions(even healing wounded foes rather than killing them, in most cases).
We're working out the dynamic for the next game, but the core players mostly want a smaller group until they can handle the distractions and I proposed adding a fourth player who's an experienced gamer. We'll see what they say, but the three of them have agreed to split treasure equally and not shaft each other(except when the rogue can skim a little off the top for himself, which I told him is much more acceptable as long as the rest get SOMETHING, period). Rogues aren't that hard to incorporate into a group as long as the group understands they're likely to keep a little extra for themselves.
The biggest problem was the rogue trying to keep everything for himself and the group devolving into chaos as they tried to resolve that as players without knowing it as characters.