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So I have been reading about the Chelish queen and I wonder, just how old is she anyway? In the Companion she is described as "immature, spoiled, and demanding." Meanwhile in the Campaign setting she is described as a "petulant child ruler." So how old is she? My group is going to be meeting her in afuture adventure and I want to have a good idea how to describe her to them.
I'd peg her at 16. Which means for now she's also jailbait.
She in her early-to-mid-twenties.
I'd peg her at 16. Which means for now she's also jailbait.
Royalty is immune to our silly laws and mores. I mean look at how the Targaryens live if you want an extreme example.
I'd peg her at 16. Which means for now she's also jailbait.
Uh, no. Our Glorious Majestix fornicates when she wants and with whom she wants. Even if she was "just" 16 (an age at which you're considered adult, anyway), she is above petty laws.
Of course, she sends whoever she likes to jail. If that whoever is very lucky.
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Uh, no. Our Glorious Majestix fornicates when she wants and with whom she wants. Even if she was "just" 16 (an age at which you're considered adult, anyway), she is above petty laws.Of course, she sends whoever she likes to jail. If that whoever is very lucky.
I am the new mage is in town with designs on receiving such glorious treatment from the Majestix of Cheliax. If she likes jail cells, I know I will not fault her for that. As long I am her bait...
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I am the new mage is in town with designs on receiving such glorious treatment
Well, how many hippies have you killed lately? And with hippies I mean those enemies of Cheliax.
Special treatment goes to the top ranking slayers only. "Face that launched a thousand ships" my ass. The rivers shall run red - red is the colour of luv! }>
Abrogail..since the demise of Queen Ileosa definitely top of the hot evil Queen charts
Aaah, Ileosa. There's someone bound for speedy promotion to Erinyes, or no one ever will.
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I am the new mage is in town with designs on receiving such glorious treatmentWell, how many hippies have you killed lately? And with hippies I mean those enemies of Cheliax.
Special treatment goes to the top ranking slayers only. "Face that launched a thousand ships" my ass. The rivers shall run red - red is the colour of luv! }>
lol
I got to wonder if abrogail II has a consort or anyone she has the eye for. Yes, I know she is she young but still, I would wager she is probably considered an adult if needing experience in leadership.
Creative Director
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Well true her pitfiend couselor is a little bit of challenge, but it would make a great Adventure Path to bring about the downfall of devil empire of Cheliax
While this would indeed make a compelling adventure path... it's not one we're ever likely to do. At least not anytime soon. We don't really want to "break" any of our nations so that they obsolete what's in the campaign setting hardcover, and don't want to cause any huge changes to regions until we're absolutely sure we've played out all the possibilities for gaming in that region. And the chances of playing out the possibilities are honestly pretty slim for all of our nations.
I got to wonder if abrogail II has a consort or anyone she has the eye for. Yes, I know she is she young but still, I would wager she is probably considered an adult if needing experience in leadership.Yes, she likes bald, tattooed chelaxian dwarves... but don't tell anyone! ;P
But ... who doesn't? ;D
Well true her pitfiend couselor is a little bit of challenge, but it would make a great Adventure Path to bring about the downfall of devil empire of CheliaxWhile this would indeed make a compelling adventure path... it's not one we're ever likely to do. At least not anytime soon. We don't really want to "break" any of our nations so that they obsolete what's in the campaign setting hardcover, and don't want to cause any huge changes to regions until we're absolutely sure we've played out all the possibilities for gaming in that region. And the chances of playing out the possibilities are honestly pretty slim for all of our nations.
I still say, that this is the #1 reason for a Homebrew setting. :)
I'd peg her at 16. Which means for now she's also jailbait.
Not in Sweden. (Though I don't know anyone above the age of 20 who'd be interested in a 16-year-old).
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While this would indeed make a compelling adventure path... it's not one we're ever likely to do. At least not anytime soon. We don't really want to "break" any of our nations so that they obsolete what's in the campaign setting hardcover, and don't want to cause any huge changes to regions until we're absolutely sure we've played out all the possibilities for gaming in that region. And the chances of playing out the possibilities are honestly pretty slim for all of our nations.
While I understand, and even agree to a certain extent with this outlook, I do think that if you take it as an absolute rule it could lead to things getting a little predictable. I do like the idea that there won't be world shaking events every few months, but if we know there's no chance of anything changing there's not really a great deal of tension.
Of course, you've avoided the problem so far by focusing on small scale stories, so I guess you know what you're doing.
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Well true her pitfiend couselor is a little bit of challenge, but it would make a great Adventure Path to bring about the downfall of devil empire of CheliaxWhile this would indeed make a compelling adventure path... it's not one we're ever likely to do. At least not anytime soon. We don't really want to "break" any of our nations so that they obsolete what's in the campaign setting hardcover, and don't want to cause any huge changes to regions until we're absolutely sure we've played out all the possibilities for gaming in that region. And the chances of playing out the possibilities are honestly pretty slim for all of our nations.
As long as there is a major 'event' once every three years or so I'd be happy. Either a war starting or ending, a nation being conquered, changeover in rulers.
For example, a great thing for Kingmaker would to have the 'best ending' be one where the PCs unite the River Kingdoms into a single nation and then have a single nation there canonically. Golarion is desperate for a Camelot.
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Well the problem with AP's like that is you start adding a active history. Which as time goes on builds up more and more and more. Making older books wrong, meaning new books with new version of things has to come out. Plus it makes it harder for new people to pick it up and jump in. That was the big trap FR fell into, i liked early FR but the more they did and changed the less interested I was.
But we can build on the past :) asiding from wondering if Abrogail has a consort or something along that line, I am also wondering if there is a list of leaders of Cheliex, ie the family tree of house thrune.
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Plus it allows to world to feel alive, and though it can be daunting to new players, it will also help keep players in to see what happens next.
There were always complaints about the 'metaplot' of the old white wolf stuff. Then they got rid of it, and most people still play the older setting because it was more interesting.
Well some canon and change is good so long as it is done slowly and in moderation. Campaign worlds need to change and evolve slowly over time, and open new mysteries and doors and new stories and adventure paths can be created. I can actually visiualize a series of small and seemingly unrelated adventure plots happening in Cheliax and over the course of several years evolving and spanning into something alot bigger like the downnfall of House Thrune, and Cheliax then caught up in a war of Succession.
There is also this to consider: Social Inertia. Once a particular rule is established in a region for more than two or three generations, it becomes so entrenched as to defy all but the most widespread civil war, which is usually not won entirely by either side. Old grudges die hard and defeat, either from within or without, leads to vengeance - usually the patient kind that sneaks up after a few years. Only a very carefully orchestrated campaign by dozens of agents acting in concert after years of laying groundwork can hope to overthrow an otherwise stable and well defended realm without decimating the population or the land. Few such coups have succeeded for long in large countries.
One notable example is the Russian revolution, which was executed with stunning speed only after years of careful plotting and arousing the will of the populace. And even that revolution ultimately failed with the fall of the Berlin Wall.
In some respects, societal changes are like geological changes. They can happen in a number of ways: Cataclysm/Impact (rocks fall, everyone dies), Upheaval (foundations are broken, the shape of the land is altered, many die), and Erosion (evolutionary, gradual change over a long period, seldom noticed in the short term, tolerable casualties).
Cataclysm and Upheaval are frequently overt plot-devices, like the spell plague, and are often poorly received as contrived and destructive.
Erosion is the mode of change that is best tolerated and most likely to foster significant and sustainable change in the long run.
In the example of Cheliax, one might begin a long term campaign of undermining the workings of the empire from within, with a tipping point that comes not as a revolution, but a natural next step. This can take a very long time, and even in the end it may only be partially successful.
War is expensive. Conquest even more so. Revolution is the most costly endeavor of all, for it pits brothers against each other.
When contemplating saving Cheliax from the diabolists, consider very well the long term cost and effects. Work out the consequences not of success, but of failure. Seriously consider the worse that could happen - because it very well might come to pass.
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Well considering I detest spoiled nobility I would just shave her bald and drag her into the streets and show the people all her shame. (An old punishment akin to tar and feathering that was used on unfaithful women)
The problem witht his spiled nobility is that she has Hell itself as a thrall. Might be a bit hard to shave her while a legion of devils (inclusing really powerful ones) trying to show you completely new and very innovative punishments for little punks who lay hand on their mistress.
I got to wonder if abrogail II has a consort or anyone she has the eye for. Yes, I know she is she young but still, I would wager she is probably considered an adult if needing experience in leadership.
Translation:
"Hey, Abby, are you seeing anyone?"
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Yes, she likes bald, tattooed chelaxian dwarves
Raw, pickled, in a stew...
I'd peg her at 16. Which means for now she's also jailbait.Not in Sweden. (Though I don't know anyone above the age of 20 who'd be interested in a 16-year-old).
I do.
Meaning I do know someone, not I do have interest in 16-year-olds.
While I understand, and even agree to a certain extent with this outlook, I do think that if you take it as an absolute rule it could lead to things getting a little predictable.
Well, look at it like this: They don't have to do world-shattering events in order to tell great stories (as you have noted yourself)
Also, there's always the possibility of preventing big events. The canon basically assumes that the heroes from those APs were successful (or don't go into that), but that doesn't mean that your version of Golarion cannot drown in blood if your heroes mess up.
Fun things that can happen in the Adventure Paths:
Plus, if the heroes don't stop the Denizens of Leng from freeing Mhar, you have a nether entity the size of a mountain with power to match loose on the continent. And that has bad news written all over it!
Even if they defeat her, they might fail to prevent the resurrection of Kazavon. A great blue dragon that is basically the Chosen of Zon-Kuthon and intent on causing suffering cannot be good for your average fantasy world.
On other words: Fun times!
My impression from the Campaign Setting is that the decaying and byzantine regime in Taldor is riper for drastic upheaval (possibly including a military venture with Taldan armies invading adjacent Galt in an effort to relive imperial glories) than Cheliax.
Agreed. Cheliax might be in decline, but they still have the power of Hell at their beck and call.
Taldor has nothing but stories about "the good old days" and riches. Riches are only good as long no one realises that instead of taking your money as payment, they can just try to take your money by force.
And should the current Padishah Emperor of Kelesh kick off (which could be any day now, the man's not exactly a youth), the new one could look more favourably on a Quadiran invasion of Taldor - that or Quadira could exploit the confusion of all sorts of nobles and hairs fighting over the throne and "forget" that they're not supposed to invade.
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Well, look at it like this: They don't have to do world-shattering events in order to tell great stories (as you have noted yourself)
Yeah, I'm not too worried since they've been doing a great job so far. It could be more of an issue with the upcoming novels, but I personally hope that they use the format of character based stories which can go either way rather than larger issues where it's a foregone conclusion that the heroes succeed.
Agreed. Cheliax might be in decline, but they still have the power of Hell at their beck and call.
Taldor has nothing but stories about "the good old days" and riches. Riches are only good as long no one realises that instead of taking your money as payment, they can just try to take your money by force.
And should the current Padishah Emperor of Kelesh kick off (which could be any day now, the man's not exactly a youth), the new one could look more favourably on a Quadiran invasion of Taldor - that or Quadira could exploit the confusion of all sorts of nobles and hairs fighting over the throne and "forget" that they're not supposed to invade.
Nonsense! The Qadirans can rattle their sabres as much as they like, but we can smell their cowardice from as far as Oppara.
She has hell as a thrall or does hell have her as thrall and she doesnt know it yet...I mean she has bought a VIP pass for Lemurehood should she ever suffer an accident....Besides this spoiled nobility needs to be taken down a peg or two...I think she might make a very fetching lemure...
Nah, I think she'd be a much better Imp, that way she can be taken as a familiar!
Nonsense! The Qadirans can rattle their sabres as much as they like, but we can smell their cowardice from as far as Oppara.
Uhm... that's not the Quadirans. And it's not cowardice. You really should take a look at your slums some day.
Nah, I think she'd be a much better Imp, that way she can be taken as a familiar!
I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't guaranteed instant Erinyes status in her contract.
It's like stock options, except... hell!
(Here's a hint: it's that silly hat you're wearing...)
Hat? What hat? That's not a hat.
The more I read about Cheliax and the way it functions, the more I like it.
My own current plans involve a mini-campaign involving a couple of demons who decide to use the opera to spread a bit of chaos in devil territory. I actually did some reading on the history of the opera (and operatic forms) and found it had some interesting developmental twists. For example - you could easily copy some of the real world intrigue of German and Italian opera into the Cheliax/Andoran conflict. Not to mention the theme of using Opera to convey political messages and/or themes - which also happened in the real world often enough.
So I was thinking of starting with real world conflicts from the world of opera, adding in some Hellknights from the Order of the Rack, a demon sorceress weaving some chaos magic into the sheet music of a new opera, and the players caught in the middle.
sorry about the slightly off topic rant. I just find the whole history of Cheliax fascinating. There's so much material there to play with, it's hard not to be excited about it.
I'm not too worried since they've been doing a great job so far. It could be more of an issue with the upcoming novels,
Not to get too far off topic, but I'm really hoping that any novels will explore events in Golarion history rather than current canon-changing events.
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Uhm... that's not the Quadirans. And it's not cowardice. You really should take a look at your slums some day.
*cough* harrumph! While I can assure you that there's a witty and biting retort just waiting on my lips, I wouldn't want to derail the thread... consider yourself very lucky mister!
I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't guaranteed instant Erinyes status in her contract.
It's like stock options, except... hell!
I'm sure that's what she thinks too.
The more I read about Cheliax and the way it functions, the more I like it.
My own current plans involve a mini-campaign involving a couple of demons who decide to use the opera to spread a bit of chaos in devil territory. I actually did some reading on the history of the opera (and operatic forms) and found it had some interesting developmental twists. For example - you could easily copy some of the real world intrigue of German and Italian opera into the Cheliax/Andoran conflict. Not to mention the theme of using Opera to convey political messages and/or themes - which also happened in the real world often enough.
So I was thinking of starting with real world conflicts from the world of opera, adding in some Hellknights from the Order of the Rack, a demon sorceress weaving some chaos magic into the sheet music of a new opera, and the players caught in the middle.
sorry about the slightly off topic rant. I just find the whole history of Cheliax fascinating. There's so much material there to play with, it's hard not to be excited about it.
I agree, when I first read about Cheliax I dismissed it as just another devil worshipping nation no different than the thousands that have come before, but the more I read the more depth I notice. I particularly like the way they've convinced themselves it is hell that serves them. And on the operatic note, you're right - I think that most operas in the real world have had political overtones, I'm not sure how long a demon sponsored opera would last in Cheliax - but it would certainly cause a stir.
Why are you talking about some hairless female. It is clear that you should be talking about me, your king.