Undead Army Attacks Exag!

[MrFish]

I'm trying to come up with a series of attacks/events for a general campaign event: (and would appreciate suggestions.) What I'd ultimately like are elements that would suggest a gathering force large for attempting to assault the city, trying to get in. The pcs have an investigative mission to do involving the pyramids but I want this as a major distraction.

1. Exag is being occupied by the pcs. (for those aware it is being set in my undead war campaign and is a path along the way of the 'Rescue the Queen' adventure.

2. The city is much as described in Dungeon, but now add on about 1,200 troops including:
- 1 8th level warrior/4th aristocrat (Senior Cavalry Commander)
- 12 5th level warrior/3rd level aristocrats (Infantry and Cav commanders)
- 11 3/3 warrior/priests
- 2 6th level sorcerors
- 120 3rd level fighters (ncos)
- 40 4th level fighters (heavily armoured two handed swordsmen)
- 120 heavy cavalry (40 2/2 warrior aristocrat, 80 2nd level warriors)
- 100 1st level barbarians (mounted infantry)(3 4th level, 1 6th level)
- 400 pikemen (1st level)
- 200 crossbowmen (1st level)
- 100 halberdiers (2nd level)
- 30 1st level, 20 2nd level, 5 3rd level, 4 4th level, 1 5th level rangers. (60 altogether)

3. Perrenland embassy has become an allied Trade Envoy setup, but is basically the same.

4. Green Welcome element removed entirely.

5. Yak-Folk are changed to being part of the wererat cult in my game. (So for example Banfar has a cane with a cat's skull instead of a rat's skull for flavour)

[BenS]

MrFish wrote:

I'm trying to come up with a series of attacks/events for a general campaign event: (and would appreciate suggestions.) What I'd ultimately like are elements that would suggest a gathering force large for attempting to assault the city, trying to get in. The pcs have an investigative mission to do involving the pyramids but I want this as a major distraction.

1. Exag is being occupied by the pcs. (for those aware it is being set in my undead war campaign and is a path along the way of the 'Rescue the Queen' adventure.

2. The city is much as described in Dungeon, but now add on about 1,200 troops including:

3. Perrenland embassy has become an allied Trade Envoy setup, but is basically the same.

4. Green Welcome element removed entirely.

5. Yak-Folk are changed to being part of the wererat cult in my game. (So for example Banfar has a cane with a cat's skull instead of a rat's skull for flavour)

I don't have any real suggestions, but partly b/c I'm confused as to what's going on here. Are the 1200 troops the undead invaders? Or defenders to fight them off? In either case, what about those sweet, high-level "doomsday" options the Cult of the Crafters has by sacrificing the high priestess (elemental rampage, I'm looking at you)?

Just a few days ago I wrote up something about the Ethergaunts (Fiend Folio) returning to the Prime plane after their 10,000 year absence. I made Exag one of their former bases on Oerth. This may or may not give you some ideas (i.e., they attempt to reclaim it by force).

[MrFish]

Sorry, those troops are the pcs' army.

So in your scenario are the Crafters really Ethergaunts?

[Rezdave]

MrFish wrote:

2. The city ... [will] now add on about 1,200 troops including:

Spoiler:

- 1 8th level warrior/4th aristocrat (Senior Cavalry Commander)
- 12 5th level warrior/3rd level aristocrats (Infantry and Cav commanders)
- 11 3/3 warrior/priests
- 2 6th level sorcerors
- 120 3rd level fighters (ncos)
- 40 4th level fighters (heavily armoured two handed swordsmen)
- 120 heavy cavalry (40 2/2 warrior aristocrat, 80 2nd level warriors)
- 100 1st level barbarians (mounted infantry)(3 4th level, 1 6th level)
- 400 pikemen (1st level)
- 200 crossbowmen (1st level)
- 100 halberdiers (2nd level)
- 30 1st level, 20 2nd level, 5 3rd level, 4 4th level, 1 5th level rangers. (60 altogether)

So ... just for fun I put your PCs' army into my mass-combat spreadsheet. Turns out the Assault on Exag is an EL 26.74 encounter.

I made the following assumptions:

Spoiler:

All of the defenders are Trained soldiers, and the Warrior-Priests, Sorcerers and Heavy Swordsmen are Specialists

None of the soldiers are hardened combat veterans

The Commanders are neither inept nor particularly exceptional, just normally capable

The Senior Commander and the Aristocrat Commanders are all Mounted

Pikemen, Crossbowmen and Halberdiers are all Warrior-classed, as are all other unspecified units

Most units have ordinary equipment for their type; the Commanders (being Warriors rather than Fighters) do not have particularly exceptional equipment; the equipment for the spellcasters is better than other units but not exceptional

The Rangers operate outside the city as scouts, skirmishers and ambushers

The city wall offers the defenders some protection, but are not optimized for defending against a siege with crenellations, towers and so forth; there are no interior city walls, wards, bailies or similar defensive subdivisions

Note that changing these assumptions impacts the force-multipliers accordingly.

FWIW,

Rez

[MrFish]

Thanks very much for the help!

[Larry Lichman]

What about 10,000 zombies at the gates? The restless dead may have been brought back due to a rift in the negative material plane at the nearest battlefield. Now, these zombies are trying to return "home" after their hard fought campaign (that probably occured 5-10 years ago)...

[Rezdave]

Larry Lichman wrote:

What about 10,000 zombies at the gates?

That would be an EL 26.58 encounter, so a very balanced fight for the defenders.

Some people will say that even 10,000 CR 1/2 creatures are no match for a party of 8th+ level PCs or an army of 1,200 behind city walls, but I beg to differ. Here's some suggestions to make such a fight interesting:

Zombies don't need siege towers, but will simply pile themselves into a mount and climb over one another to scale the walls. Whether they're ambulatory or not doesn't matter so much

Make generous use of Swarm/Mob attack rules (Check SCAP for Mob rules)

Zombies will Grapple opponents to the ground and then swarm and rip them apart

Zombies attack en masse and make generous use of Aid Another

Get creative with your application of Circumstance Bonuses to make any Mooks dangerous

Zombies never need to rest, and can assault the walls day and night, eventually wearing down and fatiguing/exhausting defenders

Pikemen and crossbowmen who have shortswords (which really are stabbing weapons) or daggers as their back-ups are almost worthless against Zombies, thus effectively removing them from the fight; same for Archer-Rangers to a certain degree

&c., &c., &c.

Much of this and even more ideas about making mooks dangerous was discussed recently in a thread about a mid-level party taking over the world or rendering armies obsolete. I think it was yours, so you probably have read all this already.

Rez

P.S. A single necromancer, magic item or artifact raising slain soldiers nightly to replenish the Zombie Horde while the defenders are unable to replenish their troops in less than 15-18 year cycles ... ouch

[MrFish]

Thanks Rezdave, very good points so far. I like the idea of a huge army of zombies backed by one or a few more spellcasters who remain hidden. How would the pcs be able to detect what's going on?

Perhaps then what I need to figure out is not so much the big large scale battle encounters--I might have those reported at first to the pcs via npc runners or lower level spellcasters or the like--but rather as the wall breaches or other problems while the pcs are trying to organize things and also do the actual adventure in the area.

[BenS]

MrFish wrote:

Sorry, those troops are the pcs' army.

So in your scenario are the Crafters really Ethergaunts?

Yes. The pyramids & gone-for-millennia angles work perfectly.

Sounds like you have things well in hand, thanks to Rezdave, one of the unsung heroes on these boards. I've never known how to handle mass combat. Hopefully Paizo addresses that in the near future!

[Rezdave]

MrFish wrote:

a huge army of zombies backed by one or a few more spellcasters who remain hidden. How would the pcs be able to detect what's going on?

"Mindless undead" can be programmed to act according to simple instructions. Thus, coordinated attacks by "mindless" zombies are possible. What will tip their hat that someone else is behind the zombie horde is when the zombies react to the actions of the defenders.

Basically, zombies start the battle with the initiative. Defenders react, launch a counter-attack and take the initiative. Once the zombies begin to react to rapidly-changing circumstances and attempt to reclaim the initiative then it should be clear that something else is controlling them.

MrFish wrote:

not so much the big large scale battle encounters ... but rather as the wall breaches or other problems while the pcs are trying to organize things and also do the actual adventure in the area.

Exactly. I ran a war scenario some time ago (for which I developed my mass-combat system ... more details in other archived posts) that basically used that method.

First, I put the PCs on the "War Council" for the local nobleman, then the Players spent a session OOC acting as the entire Council and designing a strategy and war plan based upon what intelligence they had. I then took their strategic war plan away from them in the ensuing sessions. Most of the war and battles were run "off-stage" while the PCs engaged in Special Operations and Behind-the-Lines stuff.

A couple times the PCs were involved in peripheral battles, such as holding a flank against escaping giants while the main force pushed through the enemy camp, or rushing after a group of scouts that had spotted a hidden strike force. In another instance they were involved in a secondary assault on an enemy line-of-resistance and led one of three siege units trying to create and then exploit a breach (NPC champions led the other two), giving them command of both artillery and infantry units.

In the climactic battle, they found themselves following the mainline infantry across the battlefield. Their line-infantry had cleared the enemy masses from the field and the PCs then rushed the fortified manor-house believed to be the enemy headquarters and final hold-out.

In general, only the battle involving the PCs was diced. Everything else around them was narrated in tempo to the IC play. Because of my automated mass-combat resolution system, I knew how the battle was going to turn out before it began, and so regardless of the PCs actions knew whether they were going to be on the winning or losing side and by how much (in a very few cases they actually were in a position to be the deciding factor in a battle). Sometimes they would rampage through their enemies, other times they would be barely holding out or even headed to victory in their small portion of the field, but see the flanking units around them crumble and collapse and so lead a hasty but organized retreat of their forces lest they and their troops become surrounded or overrun.

BenS wrote:

thanks to Rezdave, one of the unsung heroes on these boards

Thanks for lifting your voice. You just made my night, Ben. I even called my GF over to read this.

BenS wrote:

I've never known how to handle mass combat. Hopefully Paizo addresses that in the near future!

James, Jason, Eric, Lisa ... If any of you are lurking on this thread I'd be happy to discuss my system with you.

Cheers to all,

Rez

[MrFish]

You certainly are an unsung hero--you have often given me excellent and well thought out advice that has been very helpful!

I may have a few more powerful undead, seemingly indistinguishable from the horde around them issuing commands or using spells. Perhaps I would have two 'shifts'--a nocturnal and a diurnal one...

One thing I definitely intend to do is to depict people being either dragged away dying/wounded or else dead...to fuel the undead army. That was a very creepy and good idea.

I would appreciate it if anyone else has any ideas for actual battle encounters.

[Saern]

How about making the fog of war literal? You mention having a day and night shift for the undead leadership. Of course, some of the most powerful undead (particularly vampires and several nasty incorporeals) are limited to environments without direct sunlight. What if the undead have a mage/doohickey which can create a thick fog over the whole field, thus allowing even the vampires to remain active in the day hours? The PCs' mission would obviously be to find the origin of this fog and destroy it, thus forcing the undead to either fall into the shifts pattern above (in which their strongest leadership is only out at night) or to stop their attack completely during the daytime (which would negate a lot of the "untiring" advantage of their troops).

[Blake Ryan]

Gooday

Perhaps there are several zombie teams

one team could be digging a tunnel under the city to come up into the main castle/fort (dogs would start barking and give people a chance to stop this)

one team could be taking out light sources and priests (priests could have a vision to warn people)

one team could be grabbing people and taking them back to the necromancer to use for flesh golems (rescue opportunity here)

one team could be digging pits on the roads to slow down reinforcements for the town

if you want abit of drama, perhaps one of the necromancers henchmen wanted revenge on the town, but once all the enmasse killing started he wanted out and gives some crucial info to the pcs.

[Krome]

Rezdave wrote:

Exactly. I ran a war scenario some time ago (for which I developed my mass-combat system ... more details in other archived posts) that basically used that method.

Well, I'll be darned if I can find it. Care to provide a link or just post some info? :)

and I really like what you have done so far wit this.

[Rezdave]

Krome wrote:

Well, I'll be darned if I can find it. Care to provide a link or just post some info? :)

[tangent]

Spoiler:

Hey, Krome ... I liked your Quarterstaff posts. I wanted to say most of that stuff, from correcting the guy with the "staff in each hand" confusion to the dropping a weapon thing to other stuff, but have been busy all day.

For nearly a year I've had a terrible time searching archives, especially since Search by Poster functionality disappeared. Search generally doesn't work well, since I put in key-words I know I've used in old posts and don't get hits.

Drop me an email address and we can correspond privately. For the moment, my system remains proprietary, since I'm considering developing/licensing it commercially.

In the meantime, THIS is probably one of my earlier posts mentioning it. I'm having a lot of trouble finding others.

Grrr ... as I read it back now I can't believe I said "force-reduction" when I meant "force-depletion".

Anyway, I'll be happy to send you some info off-forum.

Best,

Rez

[/tangent]

[Krome]

:) Cool and thanks!

[e-mail]

[MrFish]

I like the idea of a literal fog of war, that's a clever one. One thing after another so I haven't gotten round to the actual adventure yet but there's been some preperatory discussions.

There are btw some troops in the army, about 300 or so, who are hardened veterans.

What we ran most recently was a brief adventure in which the pcs managed to win the allegiance of the Exagers and get access to the pyramids. Anyway at last reports the undead army is on its way so I need to do some more careful planning.

Does twilight cover the darkness/lack of sunlight rules for wights and wraiths and such?

[Rezdave]

MrFish wrote:

I like the idea of a literal fog of war, that's a clever one.

No disrespect to Saern, who often often posts great ideas, but Tolkien used that one in the Siege of Minas Tirith. I was tempted to mention it before, but never got around to posting.

Credit where credit's due ... and in this case it still remains a good suggestion from Saern.

MrFish wrote:

Does twilight cover the darkness/lack of sunlight rules for wights and wraiths and such?

As a DM you have the flexibility to make it do whatever you need.

Make the fog thicker, darker, whatever so that it achieve the basic narrative goals.

One thing that you need to remember, Fish, is that in an epic story line such as you're developing, you need to develop things from a narrative standpoint, and then work backwards into the rules to make them function.

Basically, approach things from the standpoint of yourself as an author outlining an epic fantasy novel. Where the PCs aren't directly involved, rules don't matter so don't bother yourself with them and just narrate the off-stage action to your Players.

Where the PCs are involved you'll need to follow the rules, but just remember that they are secondary. Determine what elements your story needs/wants from a dramatic and narrative standpoint, and then engineer the rules to achieve that effect.

Does "fog" hinder light enough to remove it as a hinderance to undead? Who cares. Make it "necromantically-enhanced super-thick fog" or the "smoke of hell" or whatever. Perhaps its a "Shroud of Damned Souls" that is some epic-level effect. The great thing is that you don't have to define it. It simply exists as a plot element. It's way beyond the ability of your PCs to cast, utilize or control so you don't need mechanics. Sure you can pretend like they exist, but never need to show your Players. The end result is the same ... undead can move about by day under the protection of an eternal gloom.

Oh, and not only does it block daylight, but it makes nights extra-dark. Sorry to all you moon- and star-goddess worshippers, but you're going to be having spell-trouble for a while. Sun-god folks too. And were-creatures won't be changing for a while ... mixed blessing as their unreleased rage builds up inside and they begin to go mad.

Have fun with it, and remain goal-oriented.

FWIW,

Rez

[Rezdave]

OT

Krome wrote:

:) Cool and thanks!

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