digital games -
And, an > actual scientific paper < .
"The findings suggest one reason women play fewer games than men is because they are required to fulfill more obligatory activities, leaving them less available leisure time, which in turn makes them less likely to “make” time for games."
|
I think this is true. Partly, though, on a personal level, my lack of free time was by choice - I wanted to graduate Magna Cum Laude, so I put in those hours studying while the boys spent time playing Mario Cart. I got the degree I wanted, with honors, and I don't regret not knowing how to play Mario Cart.
That was an interesting paper, although I wish they had been a little more precise as to exactly what qualifies as "non-leisure time". The only description I saw in the paper was that it included time spent at a paying job and time spent doing homework. But that can't mean that everything else is "leisure time", because the average window of leisure time was something like 1h 20min.
Just a thought, but it's probably more of an issue of different social groupings.
Watching my brother and sister grow up (twins make excellent case studies ;) my brother's friends often gamed as a unit - whether it was at-home video games, heading out to the Chinatown arcade, or playing D&D at school. My sister's friends all had different one-on-one interests - watching TV, doing homework, hanging out in Times Sq., and of course the perennial IM'ing while talking on the phone.
Both equally prioritized spending time with their friends, but pairs of girl-friends have different activities at their disposal than a gaggle of 4-5 guy-buddies, or even one guy alone. I've known *a lot* of geek guys who spent considerable lonely childhood afternoons/evenings/weekends vegging out on TV and video games (PC or console, depending on wealth & generation...). Lonely geek girls seem to have spent the time reading books or writing fanfic/drawing fanart...
Sociology studies on geek culture never seem to have a large/diverse enough sample pool to consider different axes than what they're looking at specifically (like neighborhood/race/class/family size/etc.). 267 Midwestern undergrads is a pretty small size (even for sociology), and probably not very broad.
That was an interesting paper, although I wish they had been a little more precise as to exactly what qualifies as "non-leisure time". The only description I saw in the paper was that it included time spent at a paying job and time spent doing homework. But that can't mean that everything else is "leisure time", because the average window of leisure time was something like 1h 20min.
I certainly can't answer to all of this but, as I recall from my Psych of Woman course and text, women, in general, spend significantly more hours per day involved in housework so that eats up spare time**. Furthermore woman are generally more responsible to other family members. The most interesting example of this that I can recall was the finding that elderly parents are generally the responsibility of the youngest female child. Obviously exceptions abound but in general it seems to be the case.
**Interesting reading in the text as the author was inscenced at the findings. For her it was not so bad that woman did more housework, what drove her banana's was that woman in couples seemed to somehow rationalize the work disparity by emphasizing those things that the male did do, especially things he did that she had difficulty with - this tends to be stuff like lifting heavy loads, reaching things in high places and opening stuck jars. The reverse was not the case - the males were usually perfectly aware that the female partner was doing more work and did not rationalize the disparity.
Obviously for the males out there it behooves you to work on those wrist muscles because it would seem the ability to open the stuck jam jar can be traded in for six loads of laundry. Its also worth noting that this number is falling, women still do more house work then men but the numbers are not as disparate as they were in our parents generation.
I certainly can't answer to all of this but, as I recall from my Psych of Woman course and text, women in general spend significantly more hours per day involved in housework so that eats up spare time*. Furthermore woman are generally more responsible to other family members.
I'm not doubting the conclusions of the paper. But note that it's talking about female college students, not women in general, so taking care of other family members is probably less of an issue.
I guess what I'm wondering is this: Suppose college student A cooks dinner every night and college student B buys takeout food instead. Does dinner-cooking count as a "leisure time" activity or not? Does it matter if student A enjoys cooking?
I certainly can't answer to all of this but, as I recall from my Psych of Woman course and text, women in general spend significantly more hours per day involved in housework so that eats up spare time*. Furthermore woman are generally more responsible to other family members.I'm not doubting the conclusions of the paper. But note that it's talking about female college students, not women in general, so taking care of other family members is probably less of an issue.
I guess what I'm wondering is this: Suppose college student A cooks dinner every night and college student B buys takeout food instead. Does dinner-cooking count as a "leisure time" activity or not? Does it matter if student A enjoys cooking?
The method section tells us that the students filled out a survey that asked them questions along the lines of 'How much leisure time do you have? etc.. Hence leisure time is defined by the participants themselves.
The method section tells us that the students filled out a survey that asked them questions along the lines of 'How much leisure time do you have? etc.. Hence leisure time is defined by the participants themselves.
I wonder how my wife would fill it out: does "complaining about husband's leisure time" count as "leisure time"?
;-) (just kidding, honey...)
|
That was an interesting paper, although I wish they had been a little more precise as to exactly what qualifies as "non-leisure time". The only description I saw in the paper was that it included time spent at a paying job and time spent doing homework. But that can't mean that everything else is "leisure time", because the average window of leisure time was something like 1h 20min.I certainly can't answer to all of this but, as I recall from my Psych of Woman course and text, women, in general, spend significantly more hours per day involved in housework so that eats up spare time**. Furthermore woman are generally more responsible to other family members. The most interesting example of this that I can recall was the finding that elderly parents are generally the responsibility of the youngest female child. Obviously exceptions abound but in general it seems to be the case.
**Interesting reading in the text as the author was inscenced at the findings. For her it was not so bad that woman did more housework, what drove her banana's was that woman in couples seemed to somehow rationalize the work disparity by emphasizing those things that the male did do, especially things he did that she had difficulty with - this tends to be stuff like lifting heavy loads, reaching things in high places and opening stuck jars. The reverse was not the case - the males were usually perfectly aware that the female partner was doing more work and did not rationalize the disparity.
Obviously for the males out there it behooves you to work on those wrist muscles because it would seem the ability to open the stuck jam jar can be traded in for six loads of laundry. Its also worth noting that this number is falling, women still do more house work then men but the numbers are not as disparate as they were in our parents generation.
Where do you find these women?
*gets back to doing laundry, vacuuming and scrubbing the kitchen floor...*
|
|
digital games -
And, an > actual scientific paper < .
"The findings suggest one reason women play fewer games than men is because they are required to fulfill more obligatory activities, leaving them less available leisure time, which in turn makes them less likely to “make” time for games."
Two reasons spring to mind;
(1) Men a faster learners and thus end up having more spare time.
(2) Men take more short cuts and are happier with OK rather than perfect.
If I had to pick one (based on personal experience) it would be reason #2.
S.
Man, I don't check the boards for a few months and this is the first thread I find, awesome!
I just started a 40/week office job for the first time in my life. I'm a 22 year old woman who loves gaming of various types and other geekery. With the new job, plus all the things that need to get done once I am home from work, my gaming schedule has been drastically cut. No more computer games (other than click-point puzzle games), gaming maybe once a week, no more DMing, no more T.V., etc. Is this a personal choice? Yes and no. If I wanted to be exhausted for work everyday, I could have the same amount of gameage in my life. But, I'd rather be awake at work, so I read more (gets me nice and sleeepy) and game less. My boyfriend, on the other hand, is playing MORE computer/video games now that I'm around less. Why? Is this a trend of modern male and female geeks? Or is it just us?
I think that it's just a matter of choices-girls would game more if they didn't focus on other parts of their lives, which I guess translates into free time. But would we really? I think if I had more free time, say I only work 4 days a week or even 3, I'd still only game sporactically. But would another girl make the same choices? It's hard to say.
This thread is neat.
(2) Men take more short cuts and are happier with OK rather than perfect.
Well I've certainly, on average, found this. In general, on those rare occasions when I vacuum I'm not going to sweat small details like a dust bunny so large it preys on small children.
If there is a woman in my life then, in general, her idea of well done vacuuming is a little more...er...refined then mine. That said I can do the whole apartment in 25 minutes. Takes her around twice that. Thats 25 extra minutes of gaming time, and what are the chances of a small child showing up? Pretty slim I figure so predatory dust bunny's are not such a problem. I can have a live and let live attitude toward them.
That's it. Somebody needs to stat up a predatory dust bunny.
Aberration, construct, or magical beast?
Free time? What free time?
I'm too busy gaming! (Or writing about gaming, or drawing things related to gaming...)
|
|
(2) Men take more short cuts and are happier with OK rather than perfect.Well I've certainly, on average, found this. In general, on those rare occasions when I vacuum I'm not going to sweat small details like a dust bunny so large it preys on small children.
You shouldn't worry.
As the parent of a small child, I can tell you that they prey on dust. Also fluff, crumbs, dirt, small stones - actually pretty much anything on the floor that can be tried before a watchful parent can snatch it them from their grasp. Any food being eaten by another is also fair game and must be tried, no matter how hot/sour/spicy and will be consumed with a response of 'yum', often with contorted reddening face beaded with sweat in the case of 'spicy'.
I love my little insomniac devourer of free time.
I agree and disagree with the study. Back in college, several female friends of mine were always busy. They always said they never had any free time. When they weren't studying, they were on some committee to help this or volunteering to help that or ... etc. But the problem with that is is that they did not recognize what they were doing with their free time. Their "job" was to study. They filled what was actually their free time with things they "had" to do.
Same is true with older women IME. My mother almost never has time to do relax with my dad. She's always running to a church meeting or to going to a quilting convention or whatever. She always says she never has free time to spend with my dad and that she has things that she "has" to do. What she fails to recognize is that she has lots of free time and that she is choosing not to spend it with him.
So yes, I do agree that women are to busy to game as much as men. But I disagree that they lack free time.
Edit: Personally, I follow the Centari philosophy. "... we Centauri are always on duty. Duty to the Republic, to our houses, to one another. And so, we have made the practice of joy another duty. One that must be pursued as vigorously as the others." That's half the reason why I started game writing to begin with. (that and some extra money to buy game material.
I agree and disagree with the study. Back in college, several female friends of mine were always busy. They always said they never had any free time. When they weren't studying, they were on some committee to help this or volunteering to help that or ... etc. But the problem with that is is that they did not recognize what they were doing with their free time. Their "job" was to study. They filled what was actually their free time with things they "had" to do.
Same is true with older women IME. My mother almost never has time to do relax with my dad. She's always running to a church meeting or to going to a quilting convention or whatever. She always says she never has free time to spend with my dad and that she has things that she "has" to do. What she fails to recognize is that she has lots of free time and that she is choosing not to spend it with him.
So yes, I do agree that women are to busy to game as much as men. But I disagree that they lack free time.
Edit: Personally, I follow the Centari philosophy. "... we Centauri are always on duty. Duty to the Republic, to our houses, to one another. And so, we have made the practice of joy another duty. One that must be pursued as vigorously as the others." That's half the reason why I started game writing to begin with. (that and some extra money to buy game material.
My anecdotal evidence is pretty much in line with this. Reminds me of a cartoon I saw some months back in the paper were there was a middle aged woman in a classroom writing on the chalk board over and over again "I will not volunteer for another project, I will not volunteer for another project."
That said there is a similar stereotype for men - the suit that gets home at 8:30 every night and then works in his office from 10:00 until midnight. I know a very wealthy gentlemen that is just like this - its made him rich but, even though he is completely set for life he's unable to stop. He takes off 3 weeks a year and then gets back to the serous business of making more money even though he'll never find a way to spend it.
But in line with the study above it would seem that there are a lot more guys that then gals who choose to spend their leisure time pursuing leisure activities.
Here is more interesting background work: "Pool halls, chips, and war games: Women in the culture of computing" .
Wow, it is from 1985, were there even people way back then?
It is nice to see how attitudes have evolved in such a short time span.
Here is more interesting background work: "Pool halls, chips, and war games: Women in the culture of computing" .
Wow, it is from 1985, were there even people way back then?
Yes, and some of use even post on these boards.
As the parent of a small child, I can tell you that they prey on dust. Also fluff, crumbs, dirt, small stones - actually pretty much anything on the floor that can be tried before a watchful parent can snatch it them from their grasp. Any food being eaten by another is also fair game and must be tried, no matter how hot/sour/spicy and will be consumed with a response of 'yum', often with contorted reddening face beaded with sweat in the case of 'spicy'.
Oh, so you've met my youngest daugher, then?
Here is more interesting background work: "Pool halls, chips, and war games: Women in the culture of computing" .
Wow, it is from 1985, were there even people way back then?
It is nice to see how attitudes have evolved in such a short time span.
interesting but clearly dated.
Man, I don't check the boards for a few months and this is the first thread I find, awesome!
I just started a 40/week office job for the first time in my life. I'm a 22 year old woman who loves gaming of various types and other geekery. With the new job, plus all the things that need to get done once I am home from work, my gaming schedule has been drastically cut.
Yeux! Glad to see you're doing well. Got kinda worried when you vanished for a few months, but I chalked it up to the economy and suchlike. Drop by the chat if you get a chance. We miss you. :)
To my wife, chores are an excuse to putter around and put her brain on hold. She does not do them with a goal in mind; she does them just to be doing them. I've seen her sweep the bathroom floor, then pick up a dirty rug, dumping kitty litter all over said floor, and then sweep the floor again -- without any sign of frustration, or that there might conceivably be a more efficient order of operations. Because the end (a swept floor) means very little to her compared to the means. Indeed, sweeping twice instead of once ironically makes her feel like she was more productive that day, because she did more housework!
At the end of the day, does she do a lot more housework than me? Almost certainly. But does it really need to take up anywhere near as much time as she spends at it? Not hardly.
To my wife, chores are an excuse to putter around and put her brain on hold. She does not do them with a goal in mind; she does them just to be doing them. I've seen her sweep the bathroom floor, then pick up a dirty rug, dumping kitty litter all over said floor, and then sweep the floor again -- without any sign of frustration, or that there might conceivably be a more efficient order of operations. Because the end (a swept floor) means very little to her compared to the means. Indeed, sweeping twice instead of once ironically makes her feel like she was more productive that day, because she did more housework! At the end of the day, does she do a lot more housework than me? Almost certainly. But does it really need to take up anywhere near as much time as she spends at it? Not hardly.
My wife is similar in this respect. She cleans when angry or upset, to busy herself. She gets into the "zone" and I know to either help or disapear (usually to my credit I help, until i get in her way in which case I retreat...). We play mmos together and D&D, and I can certainly attest to the fact that she has just as much "game time" available as me, but 65-75% of the time I plug away grinding levels or discovering stuff on an MMO, she chooses to knit, read, or watch tv/reality junk. She then tends to complain that she wants to play, but just flat doesn't... It is kind of mindboggling. In the end, I think she plays enough for her own tastes, but playes the part of not getting enough game time for my sake. "I wish I had time to game with you, you go ahead I'll play when this show ends." Which I know better, but overall I just want her to be doing something she enjoys, while I get time to play something Tabletop or console... or the Star Wars MMO coming out, I've been drooling over since it was annouced :P
We play mmos together and D&D, and I can certainly attest to the fact that she has just as much "game time" available as me
My wife won't play D&D, because it cuts into her valuable Facebook time.
I think the obvious conclusion of this research is that game companies need only market to males.
Director of Brand Strategy
|
The idea that women have less time for themselves is not a new one. It is explored quite thoroughly in the book The Second Shift. The book details how a number of case studies found that while both men and women have day jobs, that housework is typically the unspoken responsibility of wives and mothers. The result is that men have more time for leisure, while childcare, cooking, cleaning, etc occupy most of women's off-hours. Whether that means that women game less or watch less sports or go fishing less or whatever, it's a residual of our patriarchal society.
|
Oh, so you've met my youngest daugher, then?As the parent of a small child, I can tell you that they prey on dust. Also fluff, crumbs, dirt, small stones - actually pretty much anything on the floor that can be tried before a watchful parent can snatch it them from their grasp. Any food being eaten by another is also fair game and must be tried, no matter how hot/sour/spicy and will be consumed with a response of 'yum', often with contorted reddening face beaded with sweat in the case of 'spicy'.
HAHA reminds me of a friend's daughter, she took a chip and had some fo the hot salsa we had out while gaming...scraped her tongue off with her fingers and went back in for more...she did that like 6 times...hilarious!!!
The idea that women have less time for themselves is not a new one. It is explored quite thoroughly in the book The Second Shift. The book details how a number of case studies found that while both men and women have day jobs, that housework is typically the unspoken responsibility of wives and mothers.
I don't doubt that, but note that the study in question referred to female college students -- wives and mothers are probably in the small minority of that segment.
|
|
At the end of the day, does she do a lot more housework than me? Almost certainly. But does it really need to take up anywhere near as much time as she spends at it? Not hardly.
Sounds like the technology argument in Jurassic Park - sure, dishwashers save us a lot of effort, but we just find something else to clean or make more dirty dishes to fill the time they save, and in the end it all comes out in the wash so to speak.
Technology isn't a time-saver, it's a labour saver. There's a distinct difference.
|
|
We play mmos together and D&D, and I can certainly attest to the fact that she has just as much "game time" available as meMy wife won't play D&D, because it cuts into her valuable Facebook time.
At least she doesn't play D&D while ON Facebook, and doesn't take a bunch of evocation spells to a heist...
At least she doesn't play D&D while ON Facebook, and doesn't take a bunch of evocation spells to a heist...
Don't get me started!