Not sure that my PCs will attempt it, but what happens if the Crown is taken from Ileosa? Does she keep on fighting?
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Spoiler:Did anybody else have PCs that tried to "save" Ileosa from the crown? The adventure kind of hints and Sabina thinks, that Ileosa maybe wasn't that bad - that it is the crown that corrupted her.Not sure that my PCs will attempt it, but what happens if the Crown is taken from Ileosa? Does she keep on fighting?
I wondered about this too.
Its not like the fangs actually took control of her, they just gave the urge. It didn't change her alignment at all (that I can tell anyway).
Oh, and can you change the name of the thread so it doesn't spoiler so much, please?
Crud, sorry for the spoiler. I don't see a way to change it. Moderator? Maybe just change the title to "Spoiler: Crown of Fangs: Redemption?"
Taking away the crown gets rid of the Regen 20 and the dominates which would be pretty handy.
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Crud, sorry for the spoiler. I don't see a way to change it. Moderator? Maybe just change the title to "Spoiler: Crown of Fangs: Redemption?"
If she can't be redeemed then I don't see the point of the Sabina encounter. If my PCs actually try to redeem her rather than wading in and hacking, I don't want to penalize them with a "nope, she's all evil, too bad for you".
Taking away the crown gets rid of the Regen 20 and the dominates which would be pretty handy.
I think the Sabina encounter is there for Sabina to be redeemed. However, I do think that NPCs can be very wrong in their assessment of other NPCs. Sabina has always wanted to think the best of Ileosa, to a fault. That's what got Sabina into so much trouble that she needed the PCs to escape.
hmm, generally speaking , whether she is redeemable or not might be very much dependent how you rule her development since she picked up the Fang the first time.
the way she is described in the prelude to part #1, she seems conniving, calculating and pretty selfish. She obviously kept knowledge of infernal bargains at hand (even if she might not have used them before), married the king for social gain and tricked her way into the hidden parts of the treasury. Actually she seemed pretty rotten even before the crown granted her all sorts of powers, so "freeing" her might not actually work. then again, the PCs in all likelihood never met her before her rise to power, so they have no idea.
Besides, the players going for the crown smells of... well, I don't know how heavily you emphasized ingame the crown being the source of all evil, or under what misconception the PCs act, but actually separating her from the crown ? Unless they are supremely well-informed, or play a strong hunch, they should not really know how much of Ileosa's power depends upon the crown from ingame information alone... whcih makes the whole "take out the crown" angle a bit suspicious.
Hmmmm.... as a recommendation, one might just treat it as a case of possession of Ileosa, applying the rules for demonic possession (not much of a difference anyway ) from "Fiendish Codex I"... possibly with the possessing power withdrawing to lure the heroes into a false sense of security and even victory, then striking with excessive force, once they have lowered their guard. With unpleasant results when the mind of Kharzhavon takes over, possibly with some strange and brutal physical changes in the bargain....
"the crown tumbles from the princerss' forehead as your blow connects... her expression changes from one of unbridled hatred to an uncomprehending gasp, as the enchantment placed on her mind is stripped away... dropping her staff, she stares at you as you see bewildered realization enter her eyes that at last she is... free.... of the voices inside her head" (secret roll for sense motive vs. ileosa's bluff-check )
If the opportunity presents itself, have the crown try to take over one of the PCs as an alternative, if you really intend to show the princess as a full-time victim.
The same might be a plan for Ileosa too. She still has a couple of infernal contracts to fulfill, and has considerable powers of persuasion at her call, worldly and arcane, never to mention that she is an extremely attractive and alluring woman who used her physical advantages resourcefully even before becoming the king's wife.... ....acting the innocent manga-esque "liberated princess" only to manipulate the PCs into their eventual doom would be right up her alley, and she has the skills-ratings to actually pull it off. Nevermind a plethora of bardic powers... it might not even be a wise choice to keep her alive, given her character as established in the AP's preliminaries.
Needless to say, the princess in my campaign always played the "sweet-and-innocent-damsel-surrounded-by-manipulative-powers" card whenever she met the heroes (and some other NPCs), and my/the PCs have little to no knowledge of her actual character.
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well... as i remember the background in Edge of Arnarchy and almost writing it verbatim "that day Ileosa died"...
it has nothing to do with the crown... the crown is power yes... but unfortunately... whatever was in what she found in treasury has already mixed with her from before the beginning... she was not that rotten
yes, petty, opportunistic, selfish... but she began poisoning the king ONLY after the possesion...
so... really... unless the players have wish level magics to separate the dragon's souls from her body (and that doesn't assure anything... ehr soul could already being lost gone, serving as food or energy to the ancient evil dragon).
of course... is a shame... who would want to kill that gorgoeus woman!
Did anybody else have PCs that tried to "save" Ileosa from the crown?
I guess it depends on what they're trying to save her to. Is it an alignment thing? King Eodred II somehow managed to be Lawful Neutral even though he apparently murdered his mother. She was almost certainly Evil, but even so was probably the best monarch Korvosa ever had. I think that Ileosa's attempts to hide her alignment just show a lack of understanding of Korvosa's history.
So: if the PCs are okay with Ileosa being as evil as a typical Korvosan monarch, then I think that they could have some success after they free her from the influence of the Crown of Fangs.
there might be a severe dislike for a reigning monarch who attempted to perform mass-murder on the population through disease, enslavement and infernal-contracts.
While some of this stuff mighgt really be "common knowledge", I can't see some of the major NPCs such as Orsini, the highpriest and -priestess of Pharasma and of Abadar sit idly by and _not_leak some of this to the public (remember how Orsini opposed Ileosa long before her "evil side" actually showed in force.
What remains of House Endrin etc. I cannot really envision to forgive her in any particular way.
And after all, even with the influence of the crown only slowly establishing itself, she went for infernal contracts, a foreign assassin's guild plus associated death cult and counter-constitutional plots like an addict for his favourite drug.
Sounds pretty evil, selfish and unfit to rule to me.
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there might be a severe dislike for a reigning monarch who attempted to perform mass-murder on the population through disease, enslavement and infernal-contracts.
While some of this stuff mighgt really be "common knowledge", I can't see some of the major NPCs such as Orsini, the highpriest and -priestess of Pharasma and of Abadar sit idly by and _not_leak some of this to the public (remember how Orsini opposed Ileosa long before her "evil side" actually showed in force.
What remains of House Endrin etc. I cannot really envision to forgive her in any particular way.
And after all, even with the influence of the crown only slowly establishing itself, she went for infernal contracts, a foreign assassin's guild plus associated death cult and counter-constitutional plots like an addict for his favourite drug.
Sounds pretty evil, selfish and unfit to rule to me.
Oh, there is no way she can be left on the throne. At best, she might be able to find asylum back in Cheliax if the PCs or someone else helps her get there. Korvosa would hound her for her blood!
Another thing to consider is that Lorthact the infernal wants her dead. If they spare her then they're going to need to contend with him.