Lotsa internet tough guys out here today, I see. So, how did you react to Neds death when you read the book? I was pretty damned shocked for a while, I can tell you.
I was shocked, but mostly because I didn't see it coming. Ned was a good character, but even by then I think Dany, Jon, Arya and Tyrion were my favorite characters. Overall though I think it's the unpredictability of the series that I love.
Lotsa internet tough guys out here today, I see. So, how did you react to Neds death when you read the book? I was pretty damned shocked for a while, I can tell you.** spoiler omitted **
As for your spoiler, yeah I didn't see that one coming either. I expected something to happen, but not that.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Sort of puts the thread title in a new perspective...
zing
When I first heard he was being cast as Ned Stark, I imagined the production meeting in my head as the suits pitched him on the role.
"So, Sean, remember how you played Boromir in Lord of the Rings. We loved you in that, man, and we think we have a great role for you. Even better than that one. I mean, you get to wield an awesome sword, wear a lot of armor, become a great ruler of men... and, hey, you'll be free for summer! Sequel rights? Yeah, don't think you'll need to worry about that..." :)
Lotsa internet tough guys out here today, I see. So, how did you react to Neds death when you read the book? I was pretty damned shocked for a while, I can tell you.I was shocked, but mostly because I didn't see it coming. Ned was a good character, but even by then I think Dany, Jon, Arya and Tyrion were my favorite characters. Overall though I think it's the unpredictability of the series that I love.
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah concerning the thing mentioned in your spoiler, I was on the F Train on the way home from work when I read that part and I'm pretty sure my mouth was agape. I had to put the book down for a while after that.
Yeah concerning the thing mentioned in your spoiler, I was on the F Train on the way home from work when I read that part and I'm pretty sure my mouth was agape. I had to put the book down for a while after that.Lotsa internet tough guys out here today, I see. So, how did you react to Neds death when you read the book? I was pretty damned shocked for a while, I can tell you.I was shocked, but mostly because I didn't see it coming. Ned was a good character, but even by then I think Dany, Jon, Arya and Tyrion were my favorite characters. Overall though I think it's the unpredictability of the series that I love.
** spoiler omitted **
Part of what got me about it was that in hindsight it was a perfectly plausible set of events, that was perfectly in keeping with the characters involved, and was even foreshadowed heavily, but I still didn't see it coming, and didn't want to believe that something like that would happen.
That's the mark of a truly great writer I think, to subvert your audience's expectations by delivering a more plausible chain of events than they wanted/expected (and really takes advantage of POV story-telling - by setting it up that the character's expectations are unrealistic with the audience following in tow).
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So far my favorite scene has been a certain d-bag getting the crown of gold he so richly deserved. Aerys is growing into a stronger and more interesting character every episode, although she's no longer got the artificial sympathy inspired by her loathsome brother, so it will be a bit more of a challenge to maintain her upward trajectory, I think.
As for the spoiler-y bit,
I'm still annoyed that the butcher's boy was flat-out murdered all those episodes ago, and Ned didn't do squat about it. Jon Arryn? Murdered. Jon Arryn's squire? Pretty much murdered as well, and he even comments on it being suspicious that the inexperienced squire ended up being knighted just in time to be 'randomly' thrown up against the most brutal man in the kingdom and summarily butchered like the lamb he was. Really, when does the clue-hammer fall?
At least, barring Sorsha and perhaps Bran, his kids seem to be quite clever, particularly Rob, as of this last episode, but also Arya and Jon Snow.
I get the impression from chatter online that this is anything but a high-fantasy series, but I am kinda yearning to see some dragons or some magic... I think I was spoiled by Legend of the Seeker, with Zed throwing fire and stuff around every episode. :)
I get the impression from chatter online that this is anything but a high-fantasy series, but I am kinda yearning to see some dragons or some magic... I think I was spoiled by Legend of the Seeker, with Zed throwing fire and stuff around every episode. :)
Hang in there. :)
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I get the impression from chatter online that this is anything but a high-fantasy series, but I am kinda yearning to see some dragons or some magic...Hang in there. :)
Woo! Oh yeah, I'm at least caught up in the soap opera, if nothing else.
I have been thinking that the repeated comments about the dragons all being dead are just foreshadowing that someone is going to be very, very mistaken about that, someday...
And the pudgy Black Watch recruit mentioning that he 'wanted to be a wizard' when he grew up at least implies that such a thing *could* exist, even if Jon Snow scoffed at the idea.
I mean, not so long ago, they were all scoffing at the idea of White Watchers, and they aren't scoffing so loudly now... :)
I might be over thinking this but as I finish the first book and start on the second I can't help but wonder
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Overall I like more members of the Lannister family than I do Starks.
Funny you mention that. Last night on my commute back home I was thinking something along that line, mainly that I can't help thinking that the Starks/Baratheons make for awful leaders.
Sure in the book/show the Starks are obviously portrayed as the heroes, since the camera/story is centered on that family, but would you imagine a country, in real life, led by people like the Starks?
The Lannisters are more sophisticated and seem to have more skills with trade and politics. If a bunch of modern-day people were teleported in the Seven Kingdoms, they would act similarly in my opinion (i.e. they seem wiser and smarter in a lot of ways, more ambitious, and understand the value of a stable realm - main reason why Littlefinger and the Eunuch are on their side I think... all about the "Realm" and perhaps a bit less about who's wearing the pants)
I mean, imagine Robert Baratheon teleported in our modern world and going to a state function, grabbing the serving girls, getting drunk and making an ass of himself... :P
It seems the Lannisters would fit better in a more educated, more sophisticated setting, and their hatred of the Starks perhaps stem from hatred of the Stark's tribal ways and almost stubborn/simpleminded emphasis on honor.
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It seems the Lannisters would fit better in a more educated, more sophisticated setting, and their hatred of the Starks perhaps stem from hatred of the Stark's tribal ways and almost stubborn/simpleminded emphasis on honor.
The only Lannisters who really have anything against the Starks are Cersei and Tywin, for more or less the same reason.
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Funny you mention that. Last night on my commute back home I was thinking something along that line, mainly that I can't help thinking that the Starks/Baratheons make for awful leaders.
I disagree completely: Robert was an awful leader. Ned was actually quite a good one (as was demonstrated in the series by him opposing the tournament, lending his own men to the efforts to police the city, and other similar things, and gone into even more in the books, ss well as by ruling Winterfell well for decades)...he just wasn't quite ruthless enough with his opponents. A flaw, but not inherently enough to make him a bad leader.
Sure in the book/show the Starks are obviously portrayed as the heroes, since the camera/story is centered on that family, but would you imagine a country, in real life, led by people like the Starks?
People with adminstrative skill and experience who took personal responsibility for their actions and how the country was run, tried to cut down on unnecessary spending, refused to assassinate minors, and supported the law of the land over personal ambition? Hell yes I'd like leaders like that.
The Barratheons are another matter...and one I might be less inclined to support, but you were talking about the Starks.
The Lannisters are more sophisticated and seem to have more skills with trade and politics. If a bunch of modern-day people were teleported in the Seven Kingdoms, they would act similarly in my opinion (i.e. they seem wiser and smarter in a lot of ways, more ambitious, and understand the value of a stable realm - main reason why Littlefinger and the Eunuch are on their side I think... all about the "Realm" and perhaps a bit less about who's wearing the pants)
They are indeed more sophisticated. they're better dancers, traders, and even courtiers. Certainly better at dirty political infighting, too. Understand the value of a stable realm? That's Varys's motivation, not that of the Lannisters (who were willing to go to war over Tyrion, remember. Certainly no greater a cause than Ned's worries about Joffrey's legitimacy). They're just ambitious, desiring power and respect over all other things.
Now, I should note at this point that Tyrion and Jaime don't actually fit most of the above statements...but then only Ned's been given the chance to rule, and we're using him to talk about the Starks as a whole, so using Cersei and Tywin to talk about the Lannisters is equally fair.
It seems the Lannisters would fit better in a more educated, more sophisticated setting, and their hatred of the Starks perhaps stem from hatred of the Stark's tribal ways and almost stubborn/simpleminded emphasis on honor.
They might. And that's certainly part of the enmity...though by no means all of it. But all that assumes that honor as a concept is somehow a bad trait, which I disagree with. Ned's particular obsessive sense of honor was definitely a flaw...but anything can be a flaw if taken to sufficient extremes. In more modest amounts (like those possessed by most of the other Starks) honor's definitely a good thing, in both a ruler and a person.
I think the next episode will be the part I've been waiting for the most...it will either guarantee I finish watching the entire series, or quit watching alltogether...hope they do it well!
Overall I like more members of the Lannister family than I do Starks.Funny you mention that. Last night on my commute back home I was thinking something along that line, mainly that I can't help thinking that the Starks/Baratheons make for awful leaders.
Sure in the book/show the Starks are obviously portrayed as the heroes, since the camera/story is centered on that family, but would you imagine a country, in real life, led by people like the Starks?
The Lannisters are more sophisticated and seem to have more skills with trade and politics. If a bunch of modern-day people were teleported in the Seven Kingdoms, they would act similarly in my opinion (i.e. they seem wiser and smarter in a lot of ways, more ambitious, and understand the value of a stable realm - main reason why Littlefinger and the Eunuch are on their side I think... all about the "Realm" and perhaps a bit less about who's wearing the pants)
I mean, imagine Robert Baratheon teleported in our modern world and going to a state function, grabbing the serving girls, getting drunk and making an ass of himself... :P
It seems the Lannisters would fit better in a more educated, more sophisticated setting, and their hatred of the Starks perhaps stem from hatred of the Stark's tribal ways and almost stubborn/simpleminded emphasis on honor.
So you are saying people who would push a kid out of window would make better leaders?
Or people who would slaughter innocent people who would make better leaders?
Or people who would do anything for power makes better leaders?
I am sorry but I really have to disagree with you on this. The Lanisters don't make good leaders. As the feel they are above the law.
A note on Littlefinger....he did not side with Lannisters for a more 'stable' realm...he sided with them because he still has a thing for Ned's wife.
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I am sorry but I really have to disagree with you on this. The Lanisters don't make good leaders. As the feel they are above the law.A note on Littlefinger....he did not side with Lannisters for a more 'stable' realm...he sided with them because he still has a thing for Ned's wife.
Tywin and Tyrion are the only Lannisters who are capable of rulership, although Tyrion's reputation and situation prevent others from taking him seriously. Tywin is a bastard, but he knows how far he can push things without going "above the law" and makes conscious efforts to stay within those limits. The only times he really goes outside that is in an effort to contain the mistakes of his family (usually Cersei).
Cersei on the otherhand is pretty much a worst case scenario. Power hungry, paranoid, delusional...honestly, I can't wait to see what happens to her next (although we probably won't get to see much of her again til Book 6).
I mean, imagine Robert Baratheon teleported in our modern world and going to a state function, grabbing the serving girls, getting drunk and making an ass of himself... :P
Seriously? Politicians are making drunken asses of themselves in public practically every week (if not every day).
I agree with Deadmanwalking. Robert was a terrible king and the Lannisters would be even worse. I'd far rather live under Stark's rule than either Lannister or Baratheon.
Hell, I'd rather live under the Targaryans (aside from Mad King Aerys).
It's more than a little frightening to me to seep people saying that the Lannisters would be acceptable as rulers.
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Another point in the Stark's favor: They're a hell of a lot more mindful about what's going on up north.
Or at least a higher ratio of their number are than amongst other major houses.
Winter is coming and all that jazz.
SPOILERS FOR THE LATER BOOKS
:(
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Any sane person would have handled the situation much differently than Ned Stark did. He is clearly delusional to think that he should have given a ruthless enemy such as Cersei the opportunity to strike against him.
He was warned a number of times that the Lannisters would not play by his rules and he ignored the warning signs. Cersei herself told him a number of times that she would do whatever it took to win.
I think he seriously misjudged her because she is a woman and didn't think she had what she did in her. I think if the situation had been reversed and it had been Cedric Lannister married to Roberta Barthenon, Ned would have taken the Lannisters more seriously.
I might be over thinking this but as I finish the first book and start on the second I can't help but wonder ** spoiler omitted **
George is also a big fan of Vance's Dying Earth as well.
It's been a topic of much discussion on the Westeros forum.
Lotsa internet tough guys out here today, I see. So, how did you react to Neds death when you read the book? I was pretty damned shocked for a while, I can tell you.
I laughed, and laughed, and laughed. Not because I enjoyed the character's death, per se, but rather at the joy of actually being surprised for a change.
A Question:
Lotsa internet tough guys out here today, I see. So, how did you react to Neds death when you read the book? I was pretty damned shocked for a while, I can tell you.I laughed, and laughed, and laughed. Not because I enjoyed the character's death, per se, but rather at the joy of actually being surprised for a change.
A Question:
** spoiler omitted **
Next question:
On a relate note:
Anyone interested in posting a list of current/deceased characters (without spoilers) to help us noobs keep them straight?
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Next question:
** spoiler omitted **
On a relate note:
Anyone interested in posting a list of current/deceased characters (without spoilers) to help us noobs keep them straight?
I haven't seen the show, so I don't know how clear it is, but
Thanks, RL.
Tywin, Joff and Cersei are not typical Lannisters it seems.
Tyrion would be the best ruler of all characters, or maester Aemon.
Best ruler?
I would go with Danaerys for that title. She is the only one who has actually considered that being a ruler means a pretty heavy responsibility, been willing to take risks to protect her people, and seems to be blazingly talented at leadership despite spending her youth being a pretty bargaining chip. She is young but quite brilliant, and not overly naive.
Another one who has stepped up well to the fence is Stannis Baratheon, even if he's moping a bit too much.
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Thanks, RL.
Yep, Yoren is a Night's Watch recruiter.
Well, I think I can say this without giving too much away, but Tywin is the reason all of his kids are screwed up.
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Few shows have actually given me chills up and down my back, but tonight's episode ended with a big one. That was a phenomenal ending, and at the same time I'm rather fearful of what will happen next. Daeny seems to have everything going for her right now, but what will happen across the sea? **Shudder**.
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The Lannisters love to humiliate and depower others, especially the Starks. That is why they are keeping the Stark girl around.
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If she is married to Joffrey and they can kill off all the other starks it would give them the rightful claim to Starks lands.
That's right, it's not meant to pacify the Starks, they know that's not happening after what went down with Eddard. It's also not just to humiliate her, as they don't have to go forward with the marriage to do that. They're doing it so that if they win the war, they can use Sansa to exercise direct control over the North.
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Haven't watched the final episode yet, though having read the books I have a fair idea of what happens. Ned's untimely death was a shock to me the first time I read it, but that isn't the scene I have to skip over every time I re-read book 1. What bothers me more than any other event in the series thus far:
Natalie Dormer - Anne Boelyn from THE TUDORS - has been cast as Margaery Tyrell for Season 2 of the show.
Natalie Dormer - Anne Boelyn from THE TUDORS - has been cast as Margaery Tyrell for Season 2 of the show.
I know and I'm very excited - she was smokin' hot in The Tudors - can't wait to see her in GoT.
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Natalie Dormer - Anne Boelyn from THE TUDORS - has been cast as Margaery Tyrell for Season 2 of the show.
YOWSER! HAHOOOGA! HAHOOOGA! DIVE, DIVE, DIVE!!!!!! BRACE FOR SHOCK, BRACE FOR SHOCK!!
She looks exactly like Margaery, hope she doesn't get old in the seasons 4-5. Does she even appear in A Clash of Kings? Tough it seems the second season will have more time for character development.
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She looks exactly like Margaery, hope she doesn't get old in the seasons 4-5. Does she even appear in A Clash of Kings? Tough it seems the second season will have more time for character development.
I'm very interested to see Brienne of Tarth. :D
The way George R.R. Martin describes her almost any time she appears, makes me think he could have some personal issues with her. hehe...Btw... did you Guys already hear this cool interpretation of the Opening Song?