You're going to play a melee Rogue. You have 25 points to spend on his/her stats.
How would you spend your points?
What race would you pick?
What would your first 6 Feats be?
So... build me a character because I'm lazy?
Post your build first, to show you are into this, then we can follow up with other builds.
For a TWF rogue: probably human
For a sneaky rogue: probably halfling
For a trapfinding, dungeon-delving rogue: probably dwarf
Dex
Int
Cha/Wis
Con
Str
I like Skills as well, but also focus on the social aspects and UMD. Con and Str are the last thing I worry about in a rogue as I don't plan on being in combat as a primary focus. Feats would be Additional Traits (cause I love them), Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Dodge, Mobility (setting up for Shot on the Run).
Not lazy, wanted other peoples input without first offering something to...
A, flame
or
B, influence
.
Race
Human
Feats
2 Weapon Fighting
Weapon Finesse
Toughness
Combat Expertise
Improved Feint
Dodge
Mobility
Stats
STR 12 +1
DEX 17 +3
CON 16 +3
INT 13 +1
WIS 10 +0
CHA 13 +1
Dex
Int
Cha/Wis
Con
StrI like Skills as well, but also focus on the social aspects and UMD. Con and Str are the last thing I worry about in a rogue as I don't plan on being in combat as a primary focus. Feats would be Additional Traits (cause I love them), Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Dodge, Mobility (setting up for Shot on the Run).
That's great but it's a melee Rogue! [no legolas's here!] That's why I wanted help as I haven't seen too many melee Rogue builds around.
That's great but it's a melee Rogue! [no legolas's here!] That's why I wanted help as I haven't seen too many melee Rogue builds around.
Ah, missed that bit. Your build looks fine, though I'd spend a point less in Con and Str to bump Int and Cha up to 14. More skill points is always good for me. The Str is of negligible importance with Weapon Finesse. And Cha will help with the Feinting. I'd likely sacrifice some of the feats like Toughness and TWF to head toward Spring Attack. If you're Feinting to get a sneak attack, it won't work on the iterative attacks, and being mobile is more important to me than standing around taking hits.
That's great but it's a melee Rogue! [no legolas's here!] That's why I wanted help as I haven't seen too many melee Rogue builds around.Ah, missed that bit. Your build looks fine, though I'd spend a point less in Con and Str to bump Int and Cha up to 14. More skill points is always good for me. The Str is of negligible importance with Weapon Finesse. And Cha will help with the Feinting. I'd likely sacrifice some of the feats like Toughness and TWF to head toward Spring Attack. If you're Feinting to get a sneak attack, it won't work on the iterative attacks, and being mobile is more important to me than standing around taking hits.
Thanks for the ideas. I have to admit I'm not convinced that +1 Strength is really going to make all that much difference when I don't get to add sneak attack damage. I guess all those +1's will add up in the long run??
It's a little complex but the Party isn't going to have a Wizard or Sorcerer, so I was going to take one single level of Wizard so that I can survive being non-mobile with spells like displacement or mirror image far earlier than I'd be able to do with UMD. Arcane Strike is another Feat option in this case.
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I think you should choose between TWF and feint for combat options. The two don't compliment eachother at all. If you want to go TWF replace Combat Expertise and Improved Feint with Double Slice and maybe Two Weapon Defense.
If you want to use feint, replace TWF with Skill FOcus: Bluff.
I would also lower your Con and raise Cha. You already have Toughness and look to be going for Spring Attack. Being mobile you shouldn't need so many hit points and the Cha bonus will help with Bluff and the UMD checks. (I still think you should avoid a 1 level dip in Wizard, but that's me.)
My try:
Crag Hack the Rogue
male human rogue
STR..10 ( 0 pts)
DEX..18 (10 pts)
CON..14 ( 5 pts)
INT..14 ( 5 pts)
WIS..10 ( 0 pts)
CHA..14 ( 5 pts)
Feats:
Two-weapon Fighting [human]
Weapon Finesse [lvl 1]
--> Weapon Focus [Weapon Training]
Skill Focus (Intimidate) [lvl 3]
--> Bleeding Attack
Dazzling Display [lvl 5]
--> Stand Up
Dodge [lvl 7]
--> Stunned Defense [Combat Trick]
Improved TWF [lvl 9]
I think you should choose between TWF and feint for combat options. The two don't compliment eachother at all. If you want to go TWF replace Combat Expertise and Improved Feint with Double Slice and maybe Two Weapon Defense.
If you want to use feint, replace TWF with Skill FOcus: Bluff.
Which is going to allow me to sneak attack more?
TWF is great IF I'm flanking - doubles the sneak attack opportunities.
Feint isn't great once I get additional attacks from BAB, unless there is a way to do it as a Swift action?
However, Feint allows sneak attack damage when I can't flank. I'm sure there will be many situations where I can't flank!
Double Slice would require me to increase my Strength to get its full benefit, and 2WD grants only 1AC which seems a little weak.
Man, you *hate* that dip!
EDIT: Against high AC targets I may wish to Feint even when flanking to further increase my chances to hit.
Depending on your DM...
In the DnD V3.5 Players Handbook 2 the Beguiler has a Surprise Casting ability, that if the PC has Improved Feint allows the PC to do the feint as a swift action.
In my games, I had a player that really wanted this for a Rogue character so I "created" a feat called Surprise Feint which could be taken at 6th level and had Improved Feint as a pre-req, and allowed feinting in combat as a swift action.
YMMV...
--- david
Papa.DRB
Depending on your DM...
In the DnD V3.5 Players Handbook 2 the Beguiler has a Surprise Casting ability, that if the PC has Improved Feint allows the PC to do the feint as a swift action.
In my games, I had a player that really wanted this for a Rogue character so I "created" a feat called Surprise Feint which could be taken at 6th level and had Improved Feint as a pre-req, and allowed feinting in combat as a swift action.
YMMV...
--- david
Papa.DRB
Are you free Tuesdays?
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Which is going to allow me to sneak attack more?
TWF, no question.
TWF is great IF I'm flanking - doubles the sneak attack opportunities.
Feint isn't great once I get additional attacks from BAB, unless there is a way to do it as a Swift action?
Not that I am aware of. This is the reason I have always chosen other paths with my Rogues. I wanted to play a feinting build I just think they are over all inneffectual.
However, Feint allows sneak attack damage when I can't flank. I'm sure there will be many situations where I can't flank!
Many, yes but not by an incredible number. (In my experiance at least.)
Double Slice would require me to increase my Strength to get its full benefit, and 2WD grants only 1AC which seems a little weak.
Yes and no. Yes you would need a higher Str to take full advantage, no you wouldn't have to do that now. At low levels it isn't going to make a huge difference and later on there are many magical means to get that Str bonus up a few points.
Man, you *hate* that dip!
I know. My apologies. I like the idea of caster/rogues. I played one last year and had a blast, but 1 level dips just bug me.
(At least I'm not buggin ya to play a Half-orc.)
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What are your sources?
If you can use the Tome of Battle then I would go with
Extra Maneuver (any shadow hand maneuver)
Shadowblade - adds Dex to damage (with any shadow hand weapon - short sword being one of them. I think dagger too but I don't have my book with me.)
If you can use these feats then I would lower your str and cha and increase your Dex if you could.
Only if you get a group together and bring it to the campground over the summer months since I work from here (zip 12017) and September thru June bring them to my home (zip 12601). I have a few simple house rules, and the big one is "da guyz" buy the pizza and my wife gets two slices....
-- david
Papa.DRB
Are you free Tuesdays?Depending on your DM...
In the DnD V3.5 Players Handbook 2 the Beguiler has a Surprise Casting ability, that if the PC has Improved Feint allows the PC to do the feint as a swift action.
In my games, I had a player that really wanted this for a Rogue character so I "created" a feat called Surprise Feint which could be taken at 6th level and had Improved Feint as a pre-req, and allowed feinting in combat as a swift action.
YMMV...
--- david
Papa.DRB