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One of the things that I'd like to interject is that, with magical alignment shifts like this, the character finds themselves wanting to be the alignment they shifted to.This is what I thought as well, couldn't recall where I read it or anything like that though. If someone finds it (or something to the contrary) could you provide that info?
Also wanted to add that the contributions here have been great and well-thought out. Thanks a lot all, especially you Velcro Zipper since your posts sound like killer ideas in-game.
Pax you have to let us know how things pan out in-game!
O! You bet. And, I also have to agree. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to discuss this one.
Who'd-a-thunk-it? Eh? The druid, of all PCs, is the one to draw the balance card from the DoMT !!!
Always somethin' I tell ya.
One of the things that I'd like to interject is that, with magical alignment shifts like this, the character finds themselves wanting to be the alignment they shifted to.This is what I thought as well, couldn't recall where I read it or anything like that though. If someone finds it (or something to the contrary) could you provide that info?
Also wanted to add that the contributions here have been great and well-thought out. Thanks a lot all, especially you Velcro Zipper since your posts sound like killer ideas in-game.
Pax you have to let us know how things pan out in-game!
The helm of Opposite Alignment specifically states this, however that is one cursed item.
Incidentally I've used the Helm of OA evilly for the promotion of good. I would summon up demons (generally through fiend binder from tome of magic) then require them to put the Helm on over and over again until they failed their save.
Made the DM rub his head.
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So, to create story tension, perhaps the alignment shift is toward LG, so that the PC Ex-druid can weigh the illegality of the NPC Druidess' actions against her. ...?
I'd definitely keep the alignment change to CE because it is the most dangerous to a Neutral society and, therefore, most in opposition to a neutral creature's survival. As a CE character, the druid doesn't need to weigh the illegality of the NPC druid's actions because he would serve as a living example of what she might become.
As an example, let's say the PC ex-druid finds out about the NPC druid's trap and decides she isn't trying hard enough. He starts killing everything in the demiplane because he knows he's really just killing a bunch of castle servants he believes are responsible for harming the forest. He figures these people are never going to learn from their mistakes so it's better to just kill them all. In his mind, he's doing the NPC druid a favor and, maybe now, she'll better understand how to deal with the problem.
The NPC, on the other hand, looks at what he's doing and thinks,"Wow. This guy is nuckin' futs. I just wanted to teach these people a lesson, but I got them all killed. If I don't curb my enthusiasm, I'm going to wind up like Grisly Murder Adams over there."
She's Neutral and, I'm guessing, a balance-seeker. She might not be opposed to hurting a few people in defense of her home, but she'd realize she shouldn't be actively seeking to kill anyone. Her intention seems to be to educate people about respecting the forest. She might realize she could better do that through diplomacy or a more subtle show of power. If she's got the power to create a demiplane, she probably has a spell for controlling weather (i.e. respect the forest and you won't have to worry about chasing your roof into the next kingdom next time there's a hurricane.
I wonder if CE might lead the PC down the path of killing to acquire all the forests as his own in whatever way he can.... which, is interesting, but not as dramatically in oposition to the antagonist
It shouldn't because, as a Chaotic creature, he'd probably believe nature can't be contained or controlled. Attempting to acquire all the forests in the land would be anathema to him because it'd be like to trying to cage the tarrasque or capture the ocean in a thimble. Attempting to spread the growth of forests in order to reclaim the land, on the other hand, would appeal to him because he'd be encouraging unchecked growth. He might seek out like-minded evil fey and plant creatures to help him bring about a "Green Revolution" as it were. A balance-seeking druid would probably realize the danger of letting the forests grow rampant. More roots in the ground would drain the life-sustaining minerals from the earth, smaller plants would lose sunlight due to the increased canopy coverage, animals not adapted for living in a forest environment would die off as they are consumed by forest-dwelling predators or lose the low-growing plants they rely on for food. A Chaotic Evil eco-warrior would probably figure those plants and animals died off because they couldn't hack it and the world is better off for it.
Maybe the LG/CG/CE/LE ex-druid can take some wizard or sorcerer levels as s/he tries to get back to neutral, then when (if) s/he becomes neutral again, s/he can take the arcane hierophant class.
And maybe not return to true N. Maybe s/he'll become LG, then slowly shift to NG or LN. That's still druidable.
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OK, crazy out there idea for handling the Druid class and a non-neutral alignment: don't do anything. Let the druid be LG or CE or whatever. Instead of the druid getting their power from nature or a nature god, perhaps an Elemental Evil or Elemental Good feels the character's alignment shift and takes up the character's patronage.
A subtle shift in the druid's powers would be all that is needed: suddenly the druid loses access to spells with the opposite elemental descriptor. The druid's animal companion suddenly acquires the appropriate elemental template (and appropriate alignment). The druid suddenly has the urge (geas?) to visit a certain ancient temple outside of a small village called Hommlet to aid or destroy said temple.
As the for the druid who put the party in the demi-plane? Said druid might have second thoughts about using the demi-plane again when the party druid exits singing the praises of the Dark Lord of Fire accompanied by a flame wreathed animal companion...
Just a wild thought.
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...So the player of the PC Pathfinder RPG Druid was over last night for a 5-hr late night 1e game.
When it was over, he said, "ooh, I'm really lookin' forward to next Monday (the day of the next PFRPG session). I said, what are you lookin' forward to? He said, "I'm just lookin forward to finding out what my new alignment is, realizing I'm no longer a Druid, and maybe fighting the alignment shift in-character a bit. It should be very interesting, and at the end of the session, because the struggle wore him down so much, he would lose a level. He could lose a level until he is destroyed... very cool."
As a complete aside, at that moment I knew I had been a good GM and trained my players well. The fact that he loves the idea of a dramatic struggle, in an attempt to still play the character, despite loss of power and alignment, spoke volumes.
So I'm pretty much thinking to go with the following:
>Instant shift to Chaotic Evil
>Provide the PC several ways he can do "harm" to the folks trapped within the demi-plane as a way to conduct a story exposition beat to showcase his new alignment.
>Watch his former friends turn on him.
>Provide the PC several NPC assistants to protect him, if the party turns on him for his evil nature.
>Provide some information that reveals the NPC Druidess is behind all this, and if the players can find a way out, she is powerful enough to help restore their "lost" friend.
So, basically, from a story POV, the players must carefully exit from their entrapment by the Druidess in a way that keeps her around to save their friend.
She, in turn, depending on circumstances, may recognize the "evil" she has caused in the name of "neutrality" and mend her ways by restoring the PC druid. In turn, she might "give her life" in exchange of destroying the demi-plane and freeing her captives, but she (of course) will need the help of the PCs to do so.
In the final scenes, the demi-plane is destroyed, leaving behind the PC's castle, and a new town where none had existed before - "wha-la" instant barony! At that point it wouldn't matter if the PC accepts his duty, I can take back the castle to be governed by another.
But in every case, we see a story about the "evils" of neutrality taken to an unintended extreme, and as for the player - he is restored to Druid status, with all rights, priveledges granted unto him.
*Kind of a Hollywood ending, but other outcomes are possible - the PC Druid might get destroyed in the final battle... or he might chose to do a final act of "good" by giving his life to destroy the demi-plane, thus saving the Druidess.
And, ............... O........... holy crap, IF the player actually does this....... I have no issue with an Aspect from the Neutral nature god of my realm appearing and restoring the character or calling him home....
*sighs*
Gotta go write that stuff down now.....
What would be a perfect "ultimate" monster the PCs would need to fight to destroy the demi-plane. My thought is that the plane is anchored to its life-force, whatever it is (and it needs a weak spot for 1 NPC or the PC to give up their life to try to slay it.).
My first thought would be a dragon.
O. How perfect.
Now I know how Marvin the Robot felt. Oh goody!
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What would be a perfect "ultimate" monster the PCs would need to fight to destroy the demi-plane.
When I get my books in front of me, I'll know for sure. Right off the top of my head, I'd say a Spirit of the Land from Monster Manual 2. They're neutral and fey so they're very druidy. However, they're CR23 so you might need to nerf it or give it an Achilles' Heel of some sort.
Another suggestion would be a Zeitgeist from the Cityscape book. Zeitgeists are fey creatures made up of elements of their home. Usually they look like chunks of buildings and cobblestones and parks benches thrown together into a quasi-humanoid form because they primarily exist in cities and other centers of population, but I don't see why you couldn't have one made up of trees, bushes and rocks.
Instead of the default classics like dragons, beholders and the like, I suggest you think naturey. There are lots of great plant, fey and animal creatures to choose from. Ooo! Maybe a super powerful Unicorn with awesome templates and class levels! They'd never see me...er..I mean "it" coming.
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I've been looking through my books and Spirit of the Land is still my favorite pick, but here are a few more that might surprise your party (I don't know the CR you're looking for so there's a smattering.) Feel free to apply templates, class levels, advanced hit dice, etc.
Oaken Defender CR12 - MM4 p.106
Tempest CR16 - MM2 p.193
Orcwort CR20 - MM2 p.165
Elemental Weird CR12 - MM2 p.90 (maybe one of each type)
Burrowroot CR8 - MM5 p.14
Tarrasque CR20 - MM p.240 (He's a force of nature, right?)
Treant CR8 - MM p.244 (could be pretty tough with a few class levels and the Earth element template from Manual of the Planes p.192)
Recommended Templates for other creatures:
Wood Element - Manual of the Planes p.196
Earth Element - Manual of the Plane p.192
Woodling - MM3 p.197
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+1
I am also of the opinion that something 'elemental' or 'fey' would need to be overcome.
Thanks Velcro Zip & CE 25!
I'll check these two out. I was just looking at Zeit a few days ago, and I also like the elemental idea.
Currently, they faught a Bridge Troll (Negative Planar, Deathjump spiders v.3.5 version, and ran screaming from a greater Basilisk on the first floor of the Castle. They've spotted a Green Dragon in the air far off too.
But I have a solid 12.5 mile hex to work with. The beautiful Castle and town design I ported from Harn's Larinil, now renamed Kolderton (after one of the PCs). I have the inhabitants set to act very strangely, as though they've been compromised from having lived in the demi-plane for so long.
I imagine that the demi-plane's inhabitants are influenced by the mind of the Druidess very much, almost like they are a dollhouse being played with by her. She's read the party's thoughts as they "cut through" her forest and placed images and names from their thoughts into the actual demi-plane. Hence, the Castle is Caer Kolderton, and the people have received word from the may that they will be expecting a new Lord to take over the castle.
The party, hasn't investigated whether there actually IS a mayor! And when they do, they'll find that everyone describes the mayor differently - as a person from their past. Thusly, when the PCs actually track down the Mayor, she or he may look like someone from their past, but actually be a pseudo-avatar-thingy for the Druidess. (You get the idea, right?)
My thought with the "uber" creature (different from the Druidess) would be to have it be a bbeg within the castle somewhere, although it could be anywhere I place it.
There is a squirly NPC named Old Wat that they just met. He sits and watches the river flow, and lives in a loft above the watermill. (The spinning wheel of the mill is there just to symbolically accentuate his madness.) He's an outcast from the town, because he seems to be the only one who still remembers that he's not from this place. The session ended with him offering the PCs cards from the Deck of Many Things. I have this set where he owns the deck currently, and may offer 1-3 cards (once only) to anyone interested.
It was so awesome to see the players faces.... I pulled out the real deck, with pentagrams on the back. The Fighter drew Ruin, Jem, Key. The Cleric drew VOID, and the Druid drew Balance. Of course there are two other players who could draw from the deck...
Now the craziest thing of all... would be to have Ol Wat actually recall where the Uber creature is. Maybe lead the party there. (And if I'm a really twisted GM, I could then have Ol Wat turn into the creature and attempt to destroy the PCs.....
*Disclaimer*
That´s a pretty cool, if difficult, situation. The discussion about the alignment change reminded me of the old Greyhawk supplement -
The change induced by the card could have a similar result, without resorting to have him CE, but rather NE, and using his powers for his now evil goals still being possible. This could be even more tempting for the character to remain evil, and require even more in-depth roleplay to solve. As indicated above, a magical alignment change includes that the character is now WILLINGLY adhering to his new alignment, and if he still got the druid powers, then there is even less reason for him wanting to change it back.
Stefan
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So you've got an adversary who takes over a castle and uses its residents to create a magical, sylvan pocket-dimension filled with strange creatures and utilizing a big monster as its heart and source of power? Why does this sound so familiar?
Do the nymphs all look like Julia Louis-Dreyfus too? ^_^
Another idea for your big monster would be to make it a guardian to the actual heart of the demiplane. Maybe the druid uses something as simple as a flower growing in a hidden garden of the castle as the symbolic heart of the demiplane and protects it with your superbeast? You could even give it the Guardian Monster template from Dungeonscape (p.133.)
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So you've got an adversary who takes over a castle and uses its residents to create a magical, sylvan pocket-dimension filled with strange creatures and utilizing a big monster as its heart and source of power? Why does this sound so familiar?
Do the nymphs all look like Julia Louis-Dreyfus too? ^_^
Another idea for your big monster would be to make it a guardian to the actual heart of the demiplane. Maybe the druid uses something as simple as a flower growing in a hidden garden of the castle as the symbolic heart of the demiplane and protects it with your superbeast? You could even give it the Guardian Monster template from Dungeonscape (p.133.)
Very juicy stuff. We should write a book together.
Thank you for your dedicated contributions. This is a marvelous collaboration session!
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So you've got an adversary who takes over a castle and uses its residents to create a magical, sylvan pocket-dimension filled with strange creatures and utilizing a big monster as its heart and source of power? Why does this sound so familiar?
Do the nymphs all look like Julia Louis-Dreyfus too? ^_^
Another idea for your big monster would be to make it a guardian to the actual heart of the demiplane. Maybe the druid uses something as simple as a flower growing in a hidden garden of the castle as the symbolic heart of the demiplane and protects it with your superbeast? You could even give it the Guardian Monster template from Dungeonscape (p.133.)
Yeah... you're right.... I've been watching too much Telemundo!
LOL!
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I've been looking through my books and Spirit of the Land is still my favorite pick, but here are a few more that might surprise your party (I don't know the CR you're looking for so there's a smattering.) Feel free to apply templates, class levels, advanced hit dice, etc.
Oaken Defender CR12 - MM4 p.106
Tempest CR16 - MM2 p.193
Orcwort CR20 - MM2 p.165
Elemental Weird CR12 - MM2 p.90 (maybe one of each type)
Burrowroot CR8 - MM5 p.14
Tarrasque CR20 - MM p.240 (He's a force of nature, right?)
Treant CR8 - MM p.244 (could be pretty tough with a few class levels and the Earth element template from Manual of the Planes p.192)Recommended Templates for other creatures:
Wood Element - Manual of the Planes p.196
Earth Element - Manual of the Plane p.192
Woodling - MM3 p.197
Marvelous! I didn't see your post until just now.
The Pathfinder RPG Beta party Level is 8th. 5 Players: Well, 4 now because the cleric just drew the VOID card and is out of the picture.
P.s. Does this discussion group (You?) have any good ideas for where the Cleric got zapped to?
My first inclination was to create a whole other adventure where the PCs must find a way to get to the first plane of Hell, travel the river Styx via Charon, and find a prison called Brimstone. Wherein, various lost persons are collected and imprisoned.
However, given the creativity of this collaborative bunch - - - let's put it all on the table.
Where should he go? Should I do a more convenient, less labor intensive, tie to the demi-plane? Making it easier to "rescue" him?
Thoughts?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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A hag from the Scarred Lands Creature Collection I (revised) is an idea. Depending on party level a butcher spirit (same book) might be a good choice, or a spontanious golem (CC III). I don't have my Tomes of Horror here to suggest creatures from that. Might also be a good template in the Advanced Bestiary.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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soul Soul, who's got the soul.
Hmm, how about some of the following ideas:
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soul Soul, who's got the soul.
Hmm, how about some of the following ideas:
To free him requires someone else to draw the void (which leads the question, who did his imprisonment release?) The party has to track down a Nardificer, who's using the cleric's soul to fuel a MacGuffin The soul has been sent to a tribe of amazons, who use the soul to run their undreground city. Ghost Tower of Inverness anyone? The Soul's in the Soulgem
Oh, I'm liking number one.
What if Old Wat has been going mad, watching the river, and dealing cards (a deck he discovered with his beloved wife). His wife's lifeless body is rejoined with her soul, and Old Wat is so pleased that he will now help the party.
Too bad for the party, though, they must carry the deck now, until someone draws the VOID card to release the Cleric!
Ooooooooooooh. So very, very good! Thank you, Matthew.
Oh Goody
Are you sure you don't mean Marvin the Martian?
"Oh goody! Another Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator! Isn't that lovely? Now we can blow up the Earth!"
The only robotic Marvin I know is Marvin the Paranoid Android, and he's all-the-time depressed.
"Come on," he droned, "I've been ordered to take you down to the bridge. Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to take you down to the bridge. Call that job satisfaction? 'Cos I don't."
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Oh GoodyAre you sure you don't mean Marvin the Martian?
"Oh goody! Another Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator! Isn't that lovely? Now we can blow up the Earth!"
The only robotic Marvin I know is Marvin the Paranoid Android, and he's all-the-time depressed.
"Come on," he droned, "I've been ordered to take you down to the bridge. Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to take you down to the bridge. Call that job satisfaction? 'Cos I don't."
I liked the riff on that in Andromeda "I have a brain the size of a planet, and Harper thinks I can't tell one shiny rock from another."
Ooo, ooo, I have an idea for the boss monster if you have the Iron Kingdoms Monsternomicon 3.5.
If not... I'll have to keep thinking.
Sorry, I'm late to the brainstorm -
Like the eco-terrorist Druid spin. Possibly adding that animals should rule the world, not humanoids. Wild and natural to the extreme. druids have access to all kinds of disease spells.
Or the BBEG is undead, with the druid shrugging off the usual abhorration of life mindset. Dark Druid per se, like the Blighter suggested earlier but rebuilding the world to be more undead-friendly.
Lots of good possibilities here if you step away from it simply being an alignment change and look at it as an outlook change.
Keep going with it.
About the stolen soul deal...
For some reason, when I think of the Void card, I think of a semi-self-aware Sphere of Anhilliation. Perhaps his soul is in the center of a literal void.
Or perhaps there's a being that wears souls like the witch in the movie version of Return to Oz wears heads.
Oh... or maybe, somewhere in Hell, or Gehenna, or some other Evil (but reasonably stable) Plane, there's a disturbingly well-kept mansion inhabited by an advanced (or Dread) Devourer of aristocratic bearing. Attended by a staff of ghoulish butlers, maids, groundskeepers, and the like, the Lord of the House (or the Lady, and why not?) keeps a well-stocked larder of fine gourmet souls for special dining occassions. ... I think that one's my favorite.
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A hag from the Scarred Lands Creature Collection I (revised) is an idea. Depending on party level a butcher spirit (same book) might be a good choice, or a spontanious golem (CC III). I don't have my Tomes of Horror here to suggest creatures from that. Might also be a good template in the Advanced Bestiary.
O my! I've only to-date dipped in here for Ice Haunts and Hill Howlers... I hadn't realized the nasty goodness this revised book contains. That Witch of the Whistling Wood Moon Hag would tear up the party....
Who knew this book was so creepy? Very nice ideas.
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Yeah... you're right.... I've been watching too much Telemundo!
Please tell me I didn't waste a perfectly good "Troll" reference on somebody who's never even seen the film.
If you haven't seen it, shame on you. It's terrib...er..magical. It's got Sonny Bono and Julia Louis-Dreyfus in it. She makes a cute nymph. It'll change your life.
I'll give the Void thing some thought and get back to you.
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...Treant CR8 - MM p.244 (could be pretty tough with a few class levels and the Earth element template from Manual of the Planes p.192)
Tell me a bit more, if you will..., about using a Treant. What do you think about allowing the Druidess herself to parler with the PCs then attack and fight as a treant, after which, she would be reduced back to herself, and if beaten - could succumb to reason. Especially upon hearing about the PC druids misdeeds while under the changed alignment....
Or, would you prefer using the Treant base, adding class levels, and an earth planar template?
My concept for her, Zennasha, is a barbarian-looking druidess, who has a passionate reason for protecting the forest patch and capturing the 12 mile hex beyond in a demi-plane.
I used foreshadowing when the PCs gathered infromation, allowing townsfolk to mention they've never actually traveled to the other side of the woods, and were unaware of any coastal area nor castle beyond the woods.
On my homebrew campaign map, the woods are called the Heartclencher Forest. I have the earthmother as a neutral goddess in my realm, and possesses both birth and death in her portfolio. It is said that upon one's death, the earthmother comes to gently reach forward to clench the heart of the faithful and stop it from beating.
But all of that is the good part.
My thought is that Zannasha was once good, or true neutral, perhaps from an ancient tribe of barbarians... over time she became a druidess. Then as time passed and she saw the failings of other druids to protect the land, she took some evil actions and herself, lost her druidic powers. Perhaps in her search to restore herself, and made bitter by her own failings, she called upon an evil god to restore her powers, and in so doing, the earthmother disowowned her, cursing her with immortality such that the Heartclencher would never come to gently tug at her heart and call her home.
In the course of 100 - 200 years, (and the castle I've described shows some wear and tear from age on the outside), she used her immortality and beauty (of course, she's attractive), to acquire the Deck of Many Things. And drawing the Moon card under a quarter moon, with a poorly worded wish, she wished to preserve the lands as far as the eye could see. Thus, a demi-plane was created in the area just for her, but she is trapped there.
Not able to leave, she figured a way to allow others in, and concealed the anchor to its entrance upon a path through the Heartclencher Wood. And so, when the PCs met her on the edge of the Heartclencher Wood, she was happy to act as a guide through the woods - and brought the PCs to her demi-plane.
Now, in the days following the creation of the demi-plane, a man and his wife by the name of Guenivere and Colton Waterfeld, happened upon the demi-plane. Colton was a wise man who shrugged off the demi-planes inherent powers and retained much of his memory prior to entering. The demi-plane is actually anchored on-top of and within a 12 mile hex beyond the wood and to the coastline of an ocean. Old Wat' as he is now known, has already explained he has tried to escape the demi-plane in many ways - but each time he swims out, he just ends up swimming back to shore again, unable to leave.
Now, over time, and in desperation, Old Wat managed to steal the Deck of Many Things from Zennasha. He had hoped to use the magical deck to help leave the demi-plane, but alas, his wife drew the VOID, and her body, after many years still lives and breathes but her soul is trapped elsewhere. Having lost his mind over her loss, and being the only one in town who remembers life beyond the edges of the town, he has gone a bit mad, and offers cards from the decks to strangers, hoping that one day someone will draw the VOID again, and take the place of his poor wife, Guenivere. Enter the PCs.
When we pick up next Monday's game, the party Cleric will fall lifeless from having drawn the VOID, and Old Wat's wife will arise from her coma state for the first time in over 15 years.
Zenasha's powers are linked intrinsically to this demi-plane as it is her custom prison (that she wished for). My thought is that some of the townsfolk are just imagined by Zennasha, and the fact that the town is named Kolderton is based off Zannasha reading the PCs thoughts as they traveled through her woods. Several of the images in town might be plucked from the unconscious minds of the players, but many will be mixed with real people who became trapped there! [For those who may not know classic GM use of wish spells - sometimes unless the person making the wish is very specific with language "on this plane at this time... do hereby wish... " etc., the 'powers that be' will f-uck with the person wishing, as sometimes a malevolent force in the universe hears the wish and grants it to the letter of what was wished.
And, adding just one tiny layer of complexity.... anyone who dies in the demi-plane turns into a monster confined within the castle keep area. Thus, when the PCs slayed the Bridge Troll and the Deathjump Spiders (v.3.5 version), they all turned into Castle staff. It is this staff that has likely cared for the Castle grounds over the years, kind of like the teacup in Beauty and the Beast.
THINGS YET TO BE DETERMINED:
> THE BBEG in the castle. Is it a big monster - perhaps Zennasha herself? - perhaps a malevolent monster guardian that serves Zennasha? Perhaps Zennasha picked the Moon card under a half moon and received two wishes, and the BBEG monster is the "powerful guardian" she wished for, but instead of serving her, it serves to protect the Castle? THOUGHTS?
Is there any other specific idea that would require the travel of the PCs throughout the 12.5 mile hex? I originally started this adventure as an innoquious "clear the hex" adventure remember? Oh, well.... now I'll just need all of you to help me finish the story!!!!? Right?
Input, please!?
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Yeah... you're right.... I've been watching too much Telemundo!Please tell me I didn't waste a perfectly good "Troll" reference on somebody who's never even seen the film.
If you haven't seen it, shame on you. It's terrib...er..magical. It's got Sonny Bono and Julia Louis-Dreyfus in it. She makes a cute nymph. It'll change your life.
I'll give the Void thing some thought and get back to you.
I seem to distinctly recall the J L D thing....... I think I've seen it. But never in Spanish. :)
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Tell me a bit more, if you will..., about using a Treant. What do you think about allowing the Druidess herself to parler with the PCs then attack and fight as a treant, after which, she would be reduced back to herself, and if beaten - could succumb to reason. Especially upon hearing about the PC druids misdeeds while under the changed alignment....
Or, would you prefer using the Treant base, adding class levels, and an earth planar template?
Let's say Zenn put the heart of the demiplane in a plant because she's a druid and it makes sense for her to do that. Over time, the plant becomes awakened and grows into a Treant-like creature (Monsters of Faerun has a creature called a DarkTree and Fiend Folio has the Iron Maw) with the heart of the demiplane pumping in its trunk. The demiplane is made up of all the elements of any other material plane so the treant-thing might have grown up as a sort of creature-that-should-not-be (i.e. it has all four elemental templates making it something that shouldn't exist but does because of its strong connection to the demiplane.) For even more power and to reflect its strong ties to nature, the Woodheart (cuz that's what I'm gonna call our hypothetical tree-thing) might have a few levels of druid. Zennasha might decide to keep the Woodheart secluded and safe in a hidden garden somewhere in the castle, but its roots burrow everywhere allowing it to explore the entire plane. Here's where it really gets fun and gives your party a reason to run all over the demiplane.
The Woodheart decides it wants to get out of the castle, but it either likes or fears Zennasha too much to actually leave so it uses its roots to creep out all over the demiplane and buds out mini-Woodhearts to explore the land. These creatures are still attached to the main creature by its roots, but they aren't quite as powerful (maybe each creature only exhibits traits of one elemental template.) You can put these things anywhere you want in the demiplane and the party has to hunt down each one or the main creature will just grow anew from one of its minis (destroying the fire-mini-Woodheart could temporarily steal the fire element template from the main creature and so on.)
I've got some other ideas, but not enough time to write them at the moment.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well lets see,
Shadow Golem (CC III) is CR 9, Sand Golem (CC III) is CR 7. Both make temple guardians. Shadow Golem is another out for 'where's the soul'
Another option to end the demiplane is to be literal. If the wish was for 'as far as she could see' blinding her, either temporarily or permanently might be a 'escape clause'
Also the shock of being blinded might snap her back to normal. Irony would be if she draws the void card...
Oh and I'm so glomping the idea...
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Irony would be if she draws the void card
I had that same idea last night. The trick would be getting her to draw any cards at all. It's a little Deus ex Machina, but I think the party might want to save that idea for their last last ditch effort.
Getting back to what I was thinking about the treant...
If you go with Project:Woodheart, I'd even go so far as to make the mini-woodhearts into different types of plant creatures (maybe an earth element shambling mound, air element greenvise, water element tendriculos and fire element battlebriar?) The party would have to change tactics for each creature. They'll be like minibosses.
I've got to go again, but I'll be back with more...
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Now to finish my thought...
Making Zennasha the treant thing could work too, but it doesn't give the party as much to do. They find the druid, she turns into a monster, they fight. Pretty dry stuff, but it's salvageable. For this scenario, I'd suggest something like this:
You said some of the castle inhabitants might be figments of the druid's mind so what if they are, instead, fragments of her psyche? Say the demiplane hooked into Zennasha at the time of its creation because it needed an anchor to the material plane. She became rooted to the spot so, over hundreds of year, her mind created the castle and its inhabitants as a way to cope. Unfortunately, this also gave her a wicked bout it disassociative identity disorder and now all of her splintered fragments walk around thinking they're individuals. The druid the party met is the only one who sort of knows what's going on, but is compelled to cause trouble because she's the part of Zennasha's mind that is most protective of the forest. All that's left of the true Zennasha is a tree-like monster (the Woodheart for example) with no idea of what's going on. The druid fragment of Zennasha's mind might be subconsciously leading the party to the Woodheart out of a desire to be free of the demiplane. The party would need to either destroy the creature (maybe using the method I gave for the Woodheart) or find a way to gather all the loose fragments of Zenn's mind around the base of the tree if they want to free her from suffering and themselves from the demiplane. I'd give them the option to do both.
For the Void, I'd say go with your current plan to have Wat's wife wake up. However, use her as a tool to help the party along. Have her describe her experience in the Void like being in a peaceful garden filled with beautiful flowers in the shadow of a strange tree. In other words, make the Void the heart of the demiplane. Anybody pulling the card winds up being inserted into one of the gaps in the true Zennasha's scattered mind until somebody else comes along to fill that gap. Guinevere can give the party clues as to the location of the garden where the tree grows.
In the end, if the party destroys the creature, they might free themselves but deny their druid PC friend the chance for atonement and lose the chance to ever recover the cleric (Zennasha is dead taking his trapped soul with her.) Alternately, Zennasha lives just long enough to set everything right. If the party restores Zennasha's mind, she recovers enough for them to try and convince her to let go of the demiplane (because it turns out her desire to keep the forest safe is what is keeping her imprisoned) and let nature run its course over the forest. If they can talk her into this, she relinquishes her grasp on the demiplane and it fades away leaving the party (and the newly restored cleric) with the true Zennasha who probably uses her magic to fix the PC druid...
...Then ewoks show up and everybody dances! (alternately somebody makes a really bad pun, everybody groans, roll credits.)
The Shadow Druids (the ultimate eco-terrorist civilisation-haters) are all Neutral Evil to an extreme and they're all about restoring a pristine wilderness, no matter whom or what is in their way. Maybe that's an idea.
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It happened - the Druid in our Monday night Pathfinder Beta game drew the "Balance" card from the Deck of Many Things. Ugh! What now?
The mandate is that the alignment change be "radically different", so, it should be one of the following, right?:
>LG
>LE
>CG
>CEThat said, his status becomes Ex-Druid, right? And, in order to get Druidic powers back (spellcasting, animal companion etc.) he must "attone" right?
So now what?
I've handled paladin attonement before. And, I've recently played a 12th level Cleric who was stripped of power because he succumbed to temptation by an evil god.... but I've never handled a "Druid Attonement" if indeed, that's what the rules call for?
The system is v.3.5/Pathfinder Beta. I have a little over 1 week to determine what happens next?
Caveat: I do have some loopholes in the story-context to work with, such as the fact that the PCs are unknowingly in a small demi-plane. But I'd like to straigten out the effects before factoring that in.
Please point out a resource, book, or share your experience and wisdom please? What now, for the Druid?
He could go CE and become a blighter PrC from the Complete Divine. I think that's about the most awesome solution.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Now to finish my thought...
<snip>For the Void, I'd say go with your current plan to have Wat's wife wake up. However, use her as a tool to help the party along. Have her describe her experience in the Void like being in a peaceful garden filled with beautiful flowers in the shadow of a strange tree. In other words, make the Void the heart of the demiplane. Anybody pulling the card winds up being inserted into one of the gaps in the true Zennasha's scattered mind until somebody else comes along to fill that gap. Guinevere can give the party clues as to the location of the garden where the tree grows.
In the end, if the party destroys the creature, they might free themselves but deny their druid PC friend the chance for atonement and lose the chance to ever recover the cleric (Zennasha is dead taking his trapped soul with her.) Alternately, Zennasha lives just long enough to set everything right. If the party restores Zennasha's mind, she recovers enough for them to try and convince her to let go of the demiplane (because it turns out her desire to keep the forest safe is what is keeping her imprisoned) and let nature run its course over the forest. If they can talk her into this, she relinquishes her grasp on the demiplane and it fades away leaving the party (and the newly restored cleric) with the true Zennasha who probably uses her magic to fix the PC druid...
I like this. Maybe the entire deck doesn't exist, except as a construct of the realm. Balance is a result of Zennasha being out of wack, Void fills the hole in her soul, Wishes have to be used before the demiplane collapses etc.
If they kill her, then it's up to the party to find a way to fix the druid, but they can then raise the cleric (or maybe think they raised her but Zennasha's measuring his body for curtains). But if they can trick/convince Zennasha to draw the void, it fixes her, fixes the druid and the Cleric and they get a powerful ally in the real world...
Of course, she gets all the perks and penalties of drawing from the deck prior to getting the void, so if she's fighting them, they could make her more powerful before they get rid of her. And woe betide the cleric if she draws death and loses...
Maybe when presented with the deck, she has to draw a card every round as a swift action, still allowing her to fight normally.
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Here's an idea... Your players need to stop drawing out of that frickin' deck ;)
Balance AND Void? Good grief.
Hehehe!!!!
Nice comment, and, you're right!
Now, I will add that there was one other player (who is known for bad luck, especially in the dice department). He drew THREE cards from the deck in the following order:
>RUIN
>JEM
>KEY
So, yeah, let's add insult to injury and say I've got a group of players who shouldn't be drawing!!!! Balance, VOID, and RUIN!!!! Good grief!
But luckily, after I stripped the 8th level gamist player of all non magical items (including his boxers), he stood there naked with his loose platemail armor still on (magical), holding a bag of 25 pieces of jewelry, and a major magic weapon (soon to be discovered as a SunSword ref: v.3.5 DMG).
In the end, please note, this player who was stripped of all possessions - still thanked me for the session, saying it was very memorable and he ejoyed it tremendously.
The player who's Cleric fell into a coma (a la VOID), took it in stride, and began to impersonate a horrible mix of cockney and scottish accent, aluding to others that he might need to bring back his obnoxious dwarf, Greedn.
I like how my group can take things in stride. Plus, its been a long time since I added this much potential "chaos" to the game. Recently, as I have begun running First Edition games once per month, that old school charm seems to have spilled over into my GMing again, and I'm moving with much more fluid pacing, rolling with the punches, and improvising much, much more these days.
I like a really well designed Adventure Path! And, obviously we all love PAIZO materials, yet, its so liberating to just let the dice speak, and the card fall where they may - - - - literally!!
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The Shadow Druids (the ultimate eco-terrorist civilisation-haters) are all Neutral Evil to an extreme and they're all about restoring a pristine wilderness, no matter whom or what is in their way. Maybe that's an idea.
I like it!
Does anyone have a strong feeling that all Druids should be true neutral? Of course, I myself am a classicist when it comes to dnd, so I would agree. But really, where does Pathfinder RPG seem to be landing, does anyone who attended PAIZOCON know? My guess would be tried-and-true neutral for all Druids.
of course, NPC exceptions, prestige classes, cults, etc. are indeed exceptions.
The Shadow Druids (the ultimate eco-terrorist civilisation-haters) are all Neutral Evil to an extreme and they're all about restoring a pristine wilderness, no matter whom or what is in their way. Maybe that's an idea.I like it!
Does anyone have a strong feeling that all Druids should be true neutral? Of course, I myself am a classicist when it comes to dnd, so I would agree. But really, where does Pathfinder RPG seem to be landing, does anyone who attended PAIZOCON know? My guess would be tried-and-true neutral for all Druids.
of course, NPC exceptions, prestige classes, cults, etc. are indeed exceptions.
I think the softening regarding alignment for the druid and the ranger were good ideas from 3.0 onward - they make for more flexibility and, IMHO, make the druid much easier to play if the can be NG. Evil rangers are a nasty tool for the DM - I once toyed with the idea of introducing a ranger/blackguard as a nemesis for the PCs, after I found out that the ranger has an easy time meeting the "technical" requirements (skills, IIRC) for the Blackguard. Imagine an evil elf ranger turned into a blackguard and terrorizing a woodland. (Gnoll rangers with humans as favored enemies? You bet!) Much the same goes for evil druids, who can be quite nasty opponents, doing *everything* necessary to reach their goals, whatever these may be.
So, I´m all for loosening the alignment restrictions for druids.
Stefan
He could go CE and become a blighter PrC from the Complete Divine. I think that's about the most awesome solution.Crap! Looks at a million books on the shelf - where the 'ell is that book! I know I own it..... hmmmmn...
Intro from Blighter (CD 23) -
A blighter gains her spellcasting ability by stripping the
earth of life. A swath of deforested land always marks her
path through the wilderness.
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...really great stuff, while buiding on zipper's idea...
Okay, lets put together a simple outline, since it sounds like Matthew will be globbing the story for his own game, perhaps we can craft an outline to make GMing easy for this Monday's game too.
I. EXPOSITION: Druidess Zennasha leads PCs unknowningly into demi-plane superimposed upon regular 12.5 mile hex to the south between the Heartclencher Wood that she protects and the Mare Morilicum (sea).
A. GM uses forshadowing, having townsfolk of Corwall say they've never passed through the Heartclencher Wood and do not know what is beyond.
B. Zennasha appears as a scantily clad barbarian-like ranger, though she is a powerful Druidess who has sided with dark powers. Using a Deck of Many Things, an ill worded wish created a demi-plane (see details in thread above)
II. INVESTIGATION: The PCs are enroute to scope out a small abandoned castle and keep and possibly clear the hex. In this story, one PC was offered the land and title, but to-date has not yet accepted (likes to roam free without ties).
A. The party investigates the castle, Caer Kolderton, and fight off Bridge Troll, Deathjump spiders v.3.5, and run from a greater Basilisk
B. Inside the castle they see a mural depicting the castle and small coastal town beyond called Kolderton (replace name with whatever spotlight PC is being offered the monster infested lands and run-down castle.
C. The actual castle grounds look rundown on the outside, but the inner keep reveals a well-tended garden and clean well preserved inner areas.
D. When any creature accosting the PCs is destroyed within the castle courtyard, a dead human body of a town resident, or castle staff appears in its place with evidence of combat and gash marks according to the method used by the PCs to kill them
III. RISING ACTION: The PCs investigate the town (Kolderton) and come upon a carpenter, and a priest of the ocean god (insert your deity here). They learn the following:
A. The mayor has announced a new lord will be taking over very soon. (The name given should be the name of the spotlight PC mentioned above).
B. There is a "sage" known as Old Wat that seems to know a lot. He can be found by the watermill along the river.
C. If the PCs investigate a tavern, have the Barkeep and others in town act, just a little strange - for example, the barkeep may drug a female PC and attempt to carry her off elsewhere.... that kind of strange, or whatever comes to mind. (Some of the townsfolk are just figments of Zennasha's imagination, or lifted from the thoughts of the PCs, so be completely free to insert multiple interesting scenes here.
D. Old Wat offers the players draws from the Deck of Many Things (see Old Wat's backstory in thread above); If Old Wat's loose mind is restored, or if his wife is somehow helped, he and his wife will become allies and reveal more about Zennasha, the demi-plane, and perhaps even the creature that lives ___________?
E. The Mayor cannot be found, since he does not exist. The "Mayor" that everyone referrs to is actually Zennasha, taking many different forms to lead/control the townsfolk (only some of whom are actual people who became trapped here, and summarily "forgot" everything else.) A great many are just imaginary, but what just as Zennasha draws ideas from the PCs when they walked through her woods, so too, do the imaginary folk and physical places draw ideas from Zennasha. This is why the town is suddenly named Kolderton, and the Castle is Caer Kolderton. (Try not to go too deep into this, or get mixed up. Simply put, there probably are a few others beside Old Wat and his wife Guenivere who are real and trapped here, but only Old Wat has a memory of the outside world.
F. The PCs should investigate the area containing the "monster" __________________details?
IV. CLIMAX: (love that word) The PCs seek the source of this great "monster" because ___________.details?
A. Zennasha is really ____________? details?
B. Zennasha can be destroyed by _________? details?
C. Zennasha's demi-plane can be destroyed by ________? details?
D. Zennasha can be redeamed by _________? detials?
E. Complications due to the Deck of Many Things include _______?
V. FALLING ACTION: Zennasha might become a powerful ally for the PCs if redeemed. The destruction of Zennasha would likely destroy her demi-plane since she is tied to it, and whatever monster incarnation she also assumes (if any). The slightly run-down Castle and Keep remains in the real realm, having been there prior to the demi-plane's creation. The town and most of its habitants should disappear. Some of the town's inhabitants should survive, these will become the initial followers, serfs, vassals, etc. for the new Lord (whoever that may be). If damage was done to the PCs by the Deck Of Many Things then a) the GM can decide if effects are negated with the destruction of the demi-plane or b) the effects remain and lead to more fun adventures (even if that means finding souls, or rescuing party members who were DONJONed.
Enjoy.
P.s. Can someone take a quick swag (scientific wild ass guess) as the outline for secion IV, based on Matthew's most recent notes, the influence of V Zipper, and the kind others in this thread? Pease also make any corrections/additions/etc. Consider this an "open design" where we are all patrons and designers and no pay is involved, just the collaborative edification of a job well done=-)
Thanks.
I gotta get back to work for right now, and Monday will be here soon. Thanks again.
-Pax-
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Intro from Blighter (CD 23) - ** spoiler omitted **He could go CE and become a blighter PrC from the Complete Divine. I think that's about the most awesome solution.Crap! Looks at a million books on the shelf - where the 'ell is that book! I know I own it..... hmmmmn...
Ah. thank you! This sounds like a classic Athas Defiler!!!
These were "blighter-style Clerics" in Dark Sun many years ago.I will read more. Thank you.
Intro from Blighter (CD 23) - ** spoiler omitted **He could go CE and become a blighter PrC from the Complete Divine. I think that's about the most awesome solution.Crap! Looks at a million books on the shelf - where the 'ell is that book! I know I own it..... hmmmmn...Ah. thank you! This sounds like a classic Athas Defiler!!!
These were "blighter-style Clerics" in Dark Sun many years ago.I will read more. Thank you.
Defilers were wizards! Perservers were wizards that hadn't become defilers yet.
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Intro from Blighter (CD 23) - ** spoiler omitted **He could go CE and become a blighter PrC from the Complete Divine. I think that's about the most awesome solution.Crap! Looks at a million books on the shelf - where the 'ell is that book! I know I own it..... hmmmmn...Ah. thank you! This sounds like a classic Athas Defiler!!!
These were "blighter-style Clerics" in Dark Sun many years ago.I will read more. Thank you.
Defilers were wizards! Perservers were wizards that hadn't become defilers yet.
Whoooops! I must be getting old. My bad. Wizards then.