I've gotten a request from my group to run a CoC game upon my triumphant return to the triad. We like the Pathfinder Beta quite a bit, and I expect we'll be very satisfied with the final.
Call of Cthulhu d20 was 3.0, if I'm not mistaken.
Any ideas for updating the rules? I haven't revisited the book in quite a while; and it's unavailable to me right now. I expect we'll be fine with the offensive/defensive investigator options, I'm just wondering if anyone thinks there are any drastic rules changes I should be keeping an eye out for. CMB, casting defensively, stuff like that.
I don't need to change everything, but if there have been positive improvements to game mechanics, I thought I might as well slide them in.
Should I assume that the flood of ideas means that the rules are fine as is? Or that you don't like the d20 version? Or that you've all been consumed by unnameable horrors from outside time?
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My personal recommendation would be to use the Chaosium system. I don't think d20 is really set up well in regards to fear/insanity checks that are pretty important to CoC.
If you're set on an OGL system there is the True20 compatable Shadows of Cthulhu rule set. I haven't had a chance to read through the rules yet and it may or may not have the same fear/insanity issues as d20, but it might be something to look at.
My personal recommendation would be to use the Chaosium system. I don't think d20 is really set up well in regards to fear/insanity checks that are pretty important to CoC.
If you're set on an OGL system there is the True20 compatable Shadows of Cthulhu rule set. I haven't had a chance to read through the rules yet and it may or may not have the same fear/insanity issues as d20, but it might be something to look at.
I'll take a look, thanks!
As for Chaosium, well... It's a clunky system. I like streamlined d20, and I've never run into any of the "my players are too powerful" problems that I've heard complaints about.
It could just be that I kill them too fast, it could be that they know better than to try and stand up for themselves unless the exit is blocked. *shrug*
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I just checked out Shadows of Chthulhu, and I'm afraid it's not too interesting to me. I was fine with the sanity rules before (although I have a couple of pretty popular house rules) and I'm not too interested in whatever Green Ronin is trying to do with d20.
(I don't have an issue with GR, and I've bought some of their splats, but "True20" is a pretty presumptuous title to give their rules set.)
Hehe, good luck with the CoC conversion.
Seems to me that any game system from D&D to Star Wars and everything in between is almost perfectly suitable to a Cthulhu capmaign.
All you need is a good insanity system, which most game systems don't have, so you probably need to add that to whatever system you play (certainly need it for Pathfinder).
Other than that, any system works - just pick your favorite system for the kind of game you want (fantasy, modern, future, high-magic, low-magic, etc.) and drop in the insanity rules.
You can plunder your favorite insanity system from any game you like; I bet it converts fairly quickly to Pathfinder.
Don't forget that most encounters need to be about 2x-5x the recommended challenge rating for an even fight, and boss encounters should be about 10x the recommended challenge rating, and then you're golden.
I was originally just going to do a hardcore zombie game, complete with one-bite infections; no save. I still like that idea, but based on a bad dream while napping this afternoon I'm now thinking about lifting heavily from a movie.
I think it was called "They" and essentially it's about monsters from out of the shadows/mirrors taking kids, marking them with an implant, and letting them run free until "harvesting" time.
I sent a provocative email to one of my players to see if the idea gets them juiced, if so I'll start fleshing out the idea.
But yeah, they're going in expecting to die. I'm not nice about CoC.
I'm not nice about CoC.This is all that really matters. :-D
Good luck.
Hehe, this is why CoC is my last choice of a RPG.
I think of it like reading Lord of the Rings, but the ringwraiths catch Frodo at Bree and turn him into a nazgul, his friends all go insane, and the new nazgul hops on one of those flying dragon things (forgot the name) and delivers the ring to Sauron the next day, whereupon Gandalf is enslaved for all eternity to suffer at the lash of Frodo-wraith's whip...
Interesting, but make for a very short read and no real attachment to he heroes.
Then again, that's just me. I'm an author. I like strong victorious heroes. I guess I'm too attached to enjoy the kind of setting that makes CoC fun for some players.
I'm sure you and your friends will enjoy their untimely and demeaning demises and/or descents into dementia, if that's your thing.
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I'm not nice about CoC.This is all that really matters. :-D
Good luck.
Hehe, this is why CoC is my last choice of a RPG.
I think of it like reading Lord of the Rings, but the ringwraiths catch Frodo at Bree and turn him into a nazgul, his friends all go insane, and the new nazgul hops on one of those flying dragon things (forgot the name) and delivers the ring to Sauron the next day, whereupon Gandalf is enslaved for all eternity to suffer at the lash of Frodo-wraith's whip...
Interesting, but make for a very short read and no real attachment to he heroes.
Then again, that's just me. I'm an author. I like strong victorious heroes. I guess I'm too attached to enjoy the kind of setting that makes CoC fun for some players.
I'm sure you and your friends will enjoy their untimely and demeaning demises and/or descents into dementia, if that's your thing.
Oh, I like strong victorious heros too. But sometimes, it's fun to be the guy who is just in way over his head and seeing just how long he can keep his head above water. But then again, I am also a guy who will once or twice a year intentionally overload with horror films, videogames and books until I start having nightmares. So I may not be the most rational example, ya know? ;)
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I'm not nice about CoC.This is all that really matters. :-D
Good luck.
Hehe, this is why CoC is my last choice of a RPG.
I think of it like reading Lord of the Rings, but the ringwraiths catch Frodo at Bree and turn him into a nazgul, his friends all go insane, and the new nazgul hops on one of those flying dragon things (forgot the name) and delivers the ring to Sauron the next day, whereupon Gandalf is enslaved for all eternity to suffer at the lash of Frodo-wraith's whip...
Interesting, but make for a very short read and no real attachment to he heroes.
Then again, that's just me. I'm an author. I like strong victorious heroes. I guess I'm too attached to enjoy the kind of setting that makes CoC fun for some players.
I'm sure you and your friends will enjoy their untimely and demeaning demises and/or descents into dementia, if that's your thing.
Normally I prefer that kind of story as well. But there is just something about CoC... I have no idea if you have ever read Lovecraft, I am rereading a collection of his short stories now, in fact. I really like the exploration of a world where there is far more going on than meets the eye, that mere mankind is underpowered to deal with its very existence let along battle it.
In many respects, I believe this is a very important type of literature. The majority of literature deals with overcoming obstacles, sometimes at impossible odds, and everyone lives happily ever after in the end. But sometimes it just doesn't matter how hard you work, how much you care, and the effort you give, it will just never be enough and no matter what you do you are going to fail. By acknowledging our limitations, our failings and vulnerabilities I believe it actually makes us stronger.
Too often we get wrapped up in the little guy winning stories, that we forget, that for every winner there was a looser, and often times more than just one. So that story of winning is also a story of failure. But we don't like to dwell upon those ideas. We like winners we want to read about and be the winners. We ignore and hide from loosing until it becomes a stigma.
CoC essentially embraces the idea that there are factors at work that we just cannot overcome. HOWEVER! it is also a story of picking your battles. If you want to cause the downfall of the Great Cthulhu, then yeah you are destined to fail, but if you decide you only want to lessen the impact of the one mad cult that operates beneath the day care, then you just might be able to succeed.
Pick your battles wisely and you just might be a winner. Get a big head and get all cocky and you are definitely going to loose. Just like real life.
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Back on topic, I think the mechanics of a system is generally minimal, as long as they allow you to tell the story you want to tell. For CoC, the insanity rules are the heart of the system. You said you have a house rule system that works quite well, then I would stay with that, and use Pathfinder.
The changes that are likely to have effects, assuming the players are crazy enough to get into fights, are CMB- that is a major change I believe that might change the basic strategies of many gamers, and also the increase in feats received.
Why the increase in feats? It creates a perceived increase in power, and THAT is what gets PCs killed in CoC. If they actually think they cna take on the monsters, then they WILL loose.
Now granted, most fights are likely to be between humans, the PC investigators and the human cultists. Those fights the PCs should feel they can win, at least most of the time. But get a single real monster involved and if the PCs are too cocky, they are meat.
Now, I don't really know how other d20 systems have dealt with CoC, but it would seem to me that d20 Modern, with changes to the professions to fit the genre, would work quite well.
I EXPECT a Pathfinder Modern version by next GenCon (2010). No idea who will be the ones to do it, but I expect someone will.
I have no idea if you have ever read Lovecraft, I am rereading a collection of his short stories now, in fact. I really like the exploration of a world where there is far more going on than meets the eye, that mere mankind is underpowered to deal with its very existence let along battle it.
Yep. About half of what I could find on Project Gutenberg before I ran out of steam.
I like the idea. I like the mythos very much. I like the general "Wowza! That sure is creepy!" feeling. And I like usually horror novels in general - I even injected horror elements into my fantasy novel that's about to be published.
I don't like the fact that whatever drives the narrator over the edge is usually as much a mystery to the reader at the end of the story as it was at the beginning - I would prefer to know more details about the fugly slimy things that are chasing the narrator.
I don't like the protagonists all being helpless. I would settle for a heroic death, saving his buddies or the nearby townsfolk, or whatever, just to give a little meaning to losing the struggle for life and sanity. I would settle for many helpless protagonists with just one or two of them that rise to the challenge and deal with the problem.
But story after story seems to say "You lose, I win, you never had a chance, suck it up, life can be unfair." OK, I get it. Point made (I'm saying that to Lovecraft, not to anyone on the forum here). Now lemme go get another Conan book; it's time for a hero who takes care of business...
But that's me.
It's a good thing that not every reader shares the same taste as every other reader (unless they all share my taste, which would be cool, because then every author would write to that taste and I would have thousands of books that I could read and love every year!).
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Oh I certainly can't read Lovecraft ALL the time. There is one story I just can't bring myself to read. Reanimator- for me it has some personal touches. A story about the brain living on after death of the body and such. First time and ONLY time I tried reading it, I was sitting in the lobby of a MRI clinic while my wife has having an MRI for brain cancer. And there I was reading about brains living after death and digging up dead bodies to study their brains. Lord, that just tore me up! STill can't go back and read that one.
Trust me, after a good unhealthy dose of Lovecraft I go back to reading some standard hero stories to put it all in perspective.
I've been working on a horror/fantasy story for a few months now that is pretty tough to work out. It's a difficult genre to deal with when the heroes are able to toss fireballs, freeze water, control minds, and teleport to put them in believable life threatening situations and make the horrors of the world seem real. And try to tie it into the modern real world and have it be 2012 and the end of the world!
Helpfulness
Okie doke, I'm thinking I might just toss in CMB and feats at odd levels. You're right about feats though, someone is just going to HAVE to try and take all the psychic feats. So that's one player mostly insane before we even start...
Yep. About half of what I could find on Project Gutenberg before I ran out of steam.
I like the idea. I like the mythos very much. I like the general "Wowza! That sure is creepy!" feeling. And I like usually horror novels in general - I even injected horror elements into my fantasy novel that's about to be published.
I don't like the fact that whatever drives the narrator over the edge is usually as much a mystery to the reader at the end of the story as it was at the beginning - I would prefer to know more details about the fugly slimy things that are chasing the narrator.
I don't like the protagonists all being helpless. I would settle for a heroic death, saving his buddies or the nearby townsfolk, or whatever, just to give a little meaning to losing the struggle for life and sanity. I would settle for many helpless protagonists with just one or two of them that rise to the challenge and deal with the problem.
But story after story seems to say "You lose, I win, you never had a chance, suck it up, life can be unfair." OK, I get it. Point made (I'm saying that to Lovecraft, not to anyone on the forum here). Now lemme go get another Conan book; it's time for a hero who takes care of business...
But that's me.
It's a good thing that not every reader shares the same taste as every other reader (unless they all share my taste, which would be cool, because then every author would write to that taste and I would have thousands of books that I could read and love every year!).
Tell me the name of your book and I'll snag a copy. This is me resisting the urge to pick your brain about the publishing industry. I lost a friend/mentor over my unwillingness to attempt publication, and I've often wondered whether I should give it a shot.
As far as the mythos creatures go, you can pick up a lot about their backgrounds by cross-referencing comments in various stories. Bits of their history, goals, relationships; that sort of thing. I kind of think of it as a puzzle, but I can see where you're coming from with it being frustrating.
I think the prevalence of ineffectual heroes has to do with horror tropes. That and Lovecraft's "glass half full" personality. And how much he liked Poe. Still, I told you in a different thread that there's some good stuff out there with heroes that stand up and fight back. After some reflection, I'm positive that some of August Derleth's characters do this.
But hey, if you like the pulpy cultish settings of Lovecraft and the bad***ery of Conan; have you ever checked out Solomon Kane? Those stories are nuts.
Oh I certainly can't read Lovecraft ALL the time. There is one story I just can't bring myself to read. Reanimator- for me it has some personal touches. A story about the brain living on after death of the body and such. First time and ONLY time I tried reading it, I was sitting in the lobby of a MRI clinic while my wife has having an MRI for brain cancer. And there I was reading about brains living after death and digging up dead bodies to study their brains. Lord, that just tore me up! STill can't go back and read that one.
Trust me, after a good unhealthy dose of Lovecraft I go back to reading some standard hero stories to put it all in perspective.
I've been working on a horror/fantasy story for a few months now that is pretty tough to work out. It's a difficult genre to deal with when the heroes are able to toss fireballs, freeze water, control minds, and teleport to put them in believable life threatening situations and make the horrors of the world seem real. And try to tie it into the modern real world and have it be 2012 and the end of the world!
That story got pretty wonky towards the end. Let's just say that if you have hundreds of experiments in corpses/body parts that can't die; it's best to dispose of them securely.