Be careful. Paizo will take all your money.
And make you like it.
You say that like it's a bad thing...
Seriously, as far as value for your money (in terms of the hours of enjoyment from the product), it's tough to beat RPGs in general and Paizo continually sets the bar high on quality (both content and physical). You may spend a lot of money over time (this coming from someone who's been spending money on RPG products for over 25 years; I'm not sure if I want to know the total amount I've spent), but the nice thing about the hobby is that you can always re-use material (either whole cloth or bits and pieces), draw on it for inspiration, or modify it to fit your current needs.
Hi, I've never posted before. I'm getting a bit excited about the PFRPG (a friend and PC pointed me toward this site, and I'm eating it up.)
Hi there new guy! *offers cookies* Welcome to the boards! :D
I am about to get started running the Legacy of Fire AP and instead of progressing past the end of the AP, I am planning on using some content from J1: Entombed with the Pharoh's and J4: The pact stone Pyramid to progress them (3)levels between part 3 and 4.
I wont get into all the work I will have to do to adjust the CR's in the two prison modules of the Legacy AP, but my players want lvl 18 in part 6 and I know it will be easier to work in alot of character path storylines in the middle of this to really deepen the character's personalities and build up the players with anticipation and anxiety for the last 3 modules.
This is my plan for getting my pc's to be able to cast 9th level spells and feel the achievement of progressing to the elite levels of a D&D character.
Thanks, CC. That sounds really cool. I'd love to hear how that works out.
as far as value for your money (in terms of the hours of enjoyment from the product), it's tough to beat RPGs in general and Paizo continually sets the bar high on quality (both content and physical). You may spend a lot of money over time (this coming from someone who's been spending money on RPG products for over 25 years; I'm not sure if I want to know the total amount I've spent), but the nice thing about the hobby is that you can always re-use material (either whole cloth or bits and pieces), draw on it for inspiration, or modify it to fit your current needs.
As CC has demonstrated for us :)
I would like to subscribe to the Pathfinder Chronicles, but want a series that continues on to at least 20th level.
Are there any plans for an adventure path that goes to 20th level or higher?
A famous rpg is going to 30th currently, but don't like that system; and I AM LOOKING FOR PAIZO to help us out with this play option.
...
Signed
Looking for higher level play. Thanks all.
...I do have something in mind, and it's not part of a current Pathfinder line, really. Until we see how the RPG and the like do in a few months, I'm not going to be putting much more thought into this mystery project either, but I WOULD love to do a high-level something some day...
I recall something you'd said a while back about doing an adventure of some sort that involved loose ends from all three Varisian APs. I may not be remembering it exactly, but my eager-chip has been overheating ever since with the idea that there could some day be a high-level uber-adventure that tied back to those three great campaigns.
I always imagined it had something to do with one or more Runelords tracking down the remains of Kasavon to get sweet, sweet revenge on the aboleths.
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Still kind of new to the boards here as well, greetings everyone.
As far as high-level/ 'epic' content... its fun, but at the same time I kind of enjoy the world where the average person only has 8 hit points. I get a huge kick out of the thought of the PCs being some of the more powerful people in the world even at 12, 15 ect.
Personally, depending on how its run, I really don't see a huge requirement for more high level stuff. 'Epic' level really can just be a matter of how the world is portrayed. I like the thought of very few 'level 20' characters in the world.
Heck, like it keeps getting brought up, I don't think there should be dozens of people tossing Miracle and Wish out there.
level 20 can be 'epic' in and of itself!
Still kind of new to the boards here as well, greetings everyone.
As far as high-level/ 'epic' content... its fun, but at the same time I kind of enjoy the world where the average person only has 8 hit points. I get a huge kick out of the thought of the PCs being some of the more powerful people in the world even at 12, 15 ect.
Personally, depending on how its run, I really don't see a huge requirement for more high level stuff. 'Epic' level really can just be a matter of how the world is portrayed. I like the thought of very few 'level 20' characters in the world.
Heck, like it keeps getting brought up, I don't think there should be dozens of people tossing Miracle and Wish out there.
level 20 can be 'epic' in and of itself!
Well "in the world" is kind of the point. By level 15 or so you're probably doing a little bit of this and that in other planes where suddenly you're not the big fish in a small pond anymore.
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3. It's precisely BECAUSE the math breaks down in the normal D&D rules after level 20 that a special Epic ruleset is needed. Saying "normal D&D rules don't work after 20" isn't an argument against special Epic rules -- it's an argument for them. The problem is, that it hasn't yet been handled right. What I'd like to see is a set of Epic rules handled right.
4. One way to do that, just as a random thought, would be to start scaling again at 21. That is, bonuses at Epic levels are designated as "epic +1, epic +2, epic +3, etc."
This would mean that against 'non-epic' DCs, saves, etc., the epic stat automatically gets a +20 bonus. Against epic-level saves, DCs, etc., then the straight epic stat is used, making the die roll more important again and making it so that there are less situations where someone always succeeds, and someone else always fails.
For example, a PC with an epic +6 Will save would receive a +6 Will save against Epic effects (21+). Against non-epic effects, they would receive a +26 Will save.
In this way, you'd return the math to manageable levels, but still retain the feeling that your characters can mash ordinary heroes and villains flat in a few seconds.
In effect, against epic-level challenges, a 21st level character would effectively be a 1st level character again, although with a diverse selection of abilities and powers, making the character feel much more epic than a 1st level character (something also achieved by the nature of the stories and challenges they would face at these levels). But the math would be brought back to a manageable level, bonus-wise, and the die roll would become more significant again.
Against non-epic challenges, this same character would be pretty overwhelming -- which is appropriate, too.
This is an outstanding idea! It effectively re-normalizes the mathematics at level 20. It would allow epic-level play to scale gracefully from levels 21-40, with a sweet spot somewhere around levels 26-32. Characters who hit level 21 are in for a tough fight the first time they tackle an epic-level opponent, but that is entirely appropriate - they have just gone from being big fish in a small pond to very small fish in an ocean that spans the entire multiverse. Their actions as mighty heroes or villains has started to draw the attention of the even greater powers whose decisions affect the destinies of entire worlds.
The idea of a level cap at 40 for epic-level play also fits in well with established third-edition D&D lore, which set the precedent that most gods and other immortals should possess 40 class levels.
Under this scheme, I would suggest three distinct scales of play: 1-20 = heroic; 21-40 = epic; 41-60 = mythic / immortal. The mathematics rescale each time the characters pass from one band to the next to reflect the idea that each type of play is qualitatively different.
This is an outstanding idea!
Yeah, I've pretty much decided to pitch this to my group next month and see if they want to unearth their Age of Worms characters for another hurrah.
Except maybe the cleric who became a god.
I like the re-normalize idea, if my campaign makes it that high, I might give it a try.
Whenever they do make epic rules for PFRPG, I thought of an excellent product they should do at the same time. The Chronicles line really needs an "Epic Enemies Revisted" book. That would make me subscribe... Oh, wait.
A suggestion for a new product line came up in another thread as a way to "continue" an AP. Expanding on the idea slightly, this might make it the perfect vehicle for high-level/"epic" content:
A separate line, perhaps a 96 page soft-bound super adventure in the sytle of Red Hand of Doom, with maybe one or two releases per year, would probably be the best option. It wouldn't have to be strictly "followups" to an AP, but could be used to present story arcs too big for a single module but not big enough for an entire AP; for example, the Falcon's Hollow module arc (D0, D1, E1, D1.5) could be made into one big adventure, with expanded information on the town's movers & shakers, surroundings, and options for the party. This would allow a "mid-sized" option between the one-shot/serial Modules and a full blown AP.
And this is the greatest problem with 3rd Edition and its derivatives....the arbitrary level cap. Get rid of it. Design a game that just continues and, simultaneously, eliminate the whole line between 'epic' and, eh, 'not epic'. The Rolemaster system has done this nicely for decades. I actually tried to return to playing Rolemaster for a short time; however, after playing 3E for so long, it was a bit like trying to wade through wet cement. Of course, this may be an unrealistic pipe dream. Now that I think about it, the math may simply not work beyond 20th level. D20 is just too limited a variable range for that sort of extended play.
The arbitrary level cap is the only balance to multi-classing in the d20 system. Multi-classed characters gain all benefits, while disregarding most of the penalties from all their classes. The balance is if a character is multi-classing two or three (front loaded) classes he misses out on the 'top end' features of these classes. Things like 9th level spells are generally not available to characters with two core and a prestige cless.
The system I use has diferent 'epic classes' that are 10 levels in length, replace prestige classes (as they do not work anyway) and are a character's only advancement option for levels 21-30. So, a character that is a Fighter 10/ Thief 10, raises a level, he may choose any epic class that he qualifies for, but may not take a level in fighter or thief, or any other 'core class' for that matter.