I just got mine in the mail from the Wizards Play Network yesterday. I was just wondering if anyone else has got it and had a look at it.
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about the WPN released a 4th level The Village of Hommlet adventure. And yes it is set in Greyhawk (though it also keeps the Points of Light feel).
I have to say that though I don't haven't played any of the Temple of Elemental Evil adventures before, I'm familiar with them and I think the adventure is a nice tribute to them. It's actually inspired me to start doing a 4E game using adventures and locals from previous editions. I'm thinking about creating my own Temple of Elemental Evil for the heroic tier, followed by a Ravenloft extended adventure for the paragon tier.
I want in! :P
Well, I've been off the boards for a while, and I should know better than to come in with a criticism... but:
IMO it's a collection of old maps, new monsters, and less story than the original.
I got it for free, so I suppose I shouldn't expect much. If I reasonably take it to be an ad for their product line, it's not doing what it should -- it doesn't excite me about 4e products, nor does it offer much promise for future Greyhawk products :(
Your mileage may vary :)
Well, I've been off the boards for a while, and I should know better than to come in with a criticism... but:
IMO it's a collection of old maps, new monsters, and less story than the original.
I got it for free, so I suppose I shouldn't expect much. If I reasonably take it to be an ad for their product line, it's not doing what it should -- it doesn't excite me about 4e products, nor does it offer much promise for future Greyhawk products :(
Your mileage may vary :)
Not only are you correct Tatt, but this is more of the same garbage from our friends at WoTC, who will make an occasional nod to the "old school" players & the history of the game; but they never do anything more than tease you, thinking that it will inspire us old time d&d players to buy yet more of their current (4.0) products, which presumably will contain yet more nods to the Old School themes & locales. There never are. There won't be any more Greyhawk, hell, there won't even be any classic Forgetable Realms for those so inclined. (WoTC) has worn out that old hat once too often...
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I thought it was decent. Managed to keep most of the story elements of the original, and didn't make that many changes. I'm happier with the decision to redo the class rather than update the environs yet again.
I do wish the mention of "my brudder" Otis had stayed in, but at least the giant frogs were there!
This is the 6th version of Village of Hommlet I own - monochrome cover, light green cover, T1-4 supermodule, Return to the Temple 3E product, and the computer game rounding out the other 5.
Not only are you correct Tatt, but this is more of the same garbage from our friends at WoTC, who will make an occasional nod to the "old school" players & the history of the game; but they never do anything more than tease you, thinking that it will inspire us old time d&d players to buy yet more of their current (4.0) products, which presumably will contain yet more nods to the Old School themes & locales. There never are. There won't be any more Greyhawk, hell, there won't even be any classic Forgetable Realms for those so inclined. (WoTC) has worn out that old hat once too often...
What do you mean by 'tease you' and why is there a problem here? I mean beyond the product being designed for 4E (which, of course, it would be). Presumably the whole point of such a product is to give nods to what has gone before while providing something that can be played with the new system. My feeling is that a product like this succeeds if an old timer familiar with what has gone before can point to things that he or she recognizes and yet the product works well enough with the current version of the game that someone with no historical knowledge or attachment to the product is still entertained in utilizing it.
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What do you mean by 'tease you' and why is there a problem here?
I can't answer for the person you directed the question to, but here's my take. 4E contains a lot of namesdropping for its own sake without giving a hoot about what's underneath, for instance, a monster's skin - lamias and archons being cases in point. While keeping such names is a nod to the 1E crowd, the next step (of re-ingeneering from ground up what's underneath the name) perverts that move. If you're interested in seeing this being discussed (and demonstrated) case by case, I'd recommend you to read grognardia.blogspot.com
What do you mean by 'tease you' and why is there a problem here? My feeling is that a product like this succeeds if an old timer familiar with what has gone before can point to things that he or she recognizes and yet the product works well enough with the current version of the game that someone with no historical knowledge or attachment to the product is still entertained in utilizing it.
That's where I agree with you, though the cases illustrating this can be counted on a single hand in 4E. Because, as I said, what's required is that the *extant* underlying mechanics of a name or concept are improved on, and not just tossed aside for more of that 4E standard diet (n dmg plus push y squares). Here's a nice instance I discovered when Keep on the Shadowfell was released.
The hobgoblin torturer, a foul mouthed braggard clad in black leather armor and wearing a leathermask to hide a face disfigured by burns, picks up two hot pokers and rushes to attack. He tries to bull rush a PC into the iron maiden. The goblin warrior moves adjacent to the iron maiden along the south wall so that he can slam the device shut if a PC is shoved into it. Closing the iron maiden's door is a minor action. .. Iron Maiden: Anyone in the iron maiden when the device is closed receives 10 points of damage.
Torture chamber. .. The Torturer has a sword nearby. If both [the headsman and the torturer] are meleed, they will
react as follows: the Torturer will grab his opponent and attempt to throw him or her into the iron maiden and slam it shut (causing 10 to 100 hit points of damage to the victim and trapping him or her therein until released). This requires a to-hit score success (which indicates that the grab and hurl score were successful) plus another successful to-hit score, this time at +4, to slam the device shut.
I trust you can see the difference between 4E's reworking the lamia and it's reworking that scene in Against the Giants, Jeremy. Only one of them (and they're each representative of a kind) ought to count as respectful nods towards 1E players.
With that distinction in place, I'd ask people who own 4E Hommlet to let us know which side of that distinction it's in.
I trust you can see the difference between 4E's reworking the lamia and it's reworking that scene in Against the Giants, Jeremy. Only one of them (and they're each representative of a kind) ought to count as respectful nods towards 1E players.
With that distinction in place, I'd ask people who own 4E Hommlet to let us know which side of that distinction it's in.
One suspects that only one of them might be designed as a nod toward previous editions of the game. The other appears simply to be a rework or re-imagining of the material.
I just got mine in the mail from the Wizards Play Network yesterday. I was just wondering if anyone else has got it and had a look at it.How did we get said Village of Hommlet?
You need to join the RPGA or if you are a member of the RPGA, you need to update your contact information. If you do that now, you'll get your copy around August as they are sending them out in waves. I signed up for the RPGA the other day through the WoTC website.
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You need to join the RPGA or if you are a member of the RPGA, you need to update your contact information. If you do that now, you'll get your copy around August as they are sending them out in waves. I signed up for the RPGA the other day through the WoTC website.I just got mine in the mail from the Wizards Play Network yesterday. I was just wondering if anyone else has got it and had a look at it.How did we get said Village of Hommlet?
Excellent - I've already updated my materials. #1963 ... can you believe it?
You need to join the RPGA or if you are a member of the RPGA, you need to update your contact information. If you do that now, you'll get your copy around August as they are sending them out in waves. I signed up for the RPGA the other day through the WoTC website.I just got mine in the mail from the Wizards Play Network yesterday. I was just wondering if anyone else has got it and had a look at it.How did we get said Village of Hommlet?Excellent - I've already updated my materials. #1963 ... can you believe it?
That is old school.
I signed up for the RPGA the other day through the WoTC website.I am sorry this is off topic..
But you can sign up for the RPGA on their page now?... For years you could not unless you got a card from a GM at a convention...
Did they finally change that?.. Please oh please tell me they did...
They have instructions in the FAQ (or somewhere) for sending an e-mail to them with your contact info so that they can mail you a sign-up card.
I signed up for the RPGA the other day through the WoTC website.I am sorry this is off topic..
But you can sign up for the RPGA on their page now?... For years you could not unless you got a card from a GM at a convention...
Did they finally change that?.. Please oh please tell me they did...
Yeah, I signed up by emailing WoTC customer service through their website. Its detailed in the FAQ.
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Hey guys, do you remember this one?
I'm sort of torn. On the one hand I really like Fallcrest. On the other it still feels like a huge let down to know (?) that the 4E core books didn't feature Hommlet to begin with when they perfectly well could have.
Also, one of the 4E preview books contained an illustration of the Temple of Elemental Evil (I think it was in Worlds and Monsters). I'm curious if WotC ever feels like doing that as a module for 4E, given the apparent assumption that the temple is still there. Not that I expect it, since that was done "too recently" with 3E. And it's (to my mind) too much of an iconic Greyhawk location. For, as we know, while Mearls houses his own campaign in Greyhawk (using e.g. several deities that never made it into the 4E PHB), WotC has no obvious intention to follow suit. A small one-off with Hommlet and the Moathouse is probably among the largest bones they'll ever toss to the ´hawkers.
Hey guys, do you remember this one?
I'm sort of torn. On the one hand I really like Fallcrest. On the other it still feels like a huge let down to know (?) that the 4E core books didn't feature Hommlet to begin with when they perfectly well could have.
Also, one of the 4E preview books contained an illustration of the Temple of Elemental Evil (I think it was in Worlds and Monsters). I'm curious if WotC ever feels like doing that as a module for 4E, given the apparent assumption that the temple is still there. Not that I expect it, since that was done "too recently" with 3E. And it's (to my mind) too much of an iconic Greyhawk location. For, as we know, while Mearls houses his own campaign in Greyhawk (using e.g. several deities that never made it into the 4E PHB), WotC has no obvious intention to follow suit. A small one-off with Hommlet and the Moathouse is probably among the largest bones they'll ever toss to the ´hawkers.
I wouldn't be so sure. The 4e Manual of the Planes specifically lists five campaign worlds: Faerun, Eberron, Krynn, Oerth, and Athas. It stands to reason that those will be the ones that will receive an eventual 4e release.
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Yeah, I signed up by emailing WoTC customer service through their website. Its detailed in the FAQ.I signed up for the RPGA the other day through the WoTC website.I am sorry this is off topic..
But you can sign up for the RPGA on their page now?... For years you could not unless you got a card from a GM at a convention...
Did they finally change that?.. Please oh please tell me they did...
Well that is not working..
I emailed them to the email It said, got an email back saying that email was not being used anymore an to to access their help section, When I try to access the help section I get an error.
Much easier if they let us join on the web page..
Well that is not working..
I emailed them to the email It said, got an email back saying that email was not being used anymore an to to access their help section, When I try to access the help section I get an error.
Much easier if they let us join on the web page..
Did you try this link? I did it last week without any incident. Remember to email them through the "Email Us" tab at the top of the page.
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Did you try this link? I did it last week without any incident. Remember to email them through the "Email Us" tab at the top of the page.Well that is not working..
I emailed them to the email It said, got an email back saying that email was not being used anymore an to to access their help section, When I try to access the help section I get an error.
Much easier if they let us join on the web page..
yup tired that to...this is what I get
A technical error has occurred. Please close your browser and try again.
Did you try this link? I did it last week without any incident. Remember to email them through the "Email Us" tab at the top of the page.Well that is not working..
I emailed them to the email It said, got an email back saying that email was not being used anymore an to to access their help section, When I try to access the help section I get an error.
Much easier if they let us join on the web page..
yup tired that to...this is what I get
A technical error has occurred. Please close your browser and try again.
Yeah, it does look like that portion of their site isn't working properly today. It's one that gets a lot of use, though, so I'd expect to see it working pretty soon. Try again tomorrow or in a couple of days.
I've been getting that technical error for two weeks now. *sigh* I am not even going to bother going over there to try to get this signed up but I am glad to see they are doing nods to older products because I would like to see alot of older versions and settings 4ized (not Forgotten Realm style 4-ized)
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I've been getting that technical error for two weeks now. *sigh* I am not even going to bother going over there to try to get this signed up but I am glad to see they are doing nods to older products because I would like to see alot of older versions and settings 4ized (not Forgotten Realm style 4-ized)
I have an order in for some DCI cards. I will post again in this forum when I have some, and will be willing to mail them to you. I'm not going to do this mass, maybe up to 10 or so players.
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My friend just received this in the mail so I had a chance to look it over yesterday. I own every published version of Hommlet and have run each version of this adventure at least once. The 4E version of The Village of Hommlet is, in a word, awful.
T1 was my very first D&D module and I ran nearly every playing group I was involved with over the next 20 years through it. The immortal Moathouse claimed many an aspiring adventurer long before their youthful dreams were ever realized. (Watch out for that tick!)
When T1-4 came out I snapped up a copy and sent a small group to infiltrate the Temple. Many months, nay years, of game play later the adventure culminated with the successful exploration of the nodes, the retrieval of the power gems and the final destruction of the Goldenskull!
Imagine our surprise when Return to TOEE was published some years later. Iuz and Zuggtomoy were merely puppets! Mighty Tharizdun had been pulling the strings all along. I quickly jumped at the chance to revisit an old favorite reworked and reimagined for a new edition with new stories and surprises introduced throughout. Who knew that the Giant Crayfish guarded anything more sinister than the bones of its previous victims! As a DM I tried for a fresh approach to "Return" and thus framed it as quest to reclaim a lost Dwarven Homeland. Action was centered in Rastor and the original TOEE comes in only later in the campaign. Alas the adventure was not to be completed. After the discovery of the Dwarven shrine in the Temple of All-Consumption the campaign went on extended hiatus. Perhaps it will live again down the road.
Why then, given my enthusiasm for every previous incarnation, is the latest version of Hommlet so contemptible? Let me count the ways.
1) The cover. The original T1 cover depicted Lareth (the BBEG), the aforementioned crayfish, the Moathouse and guards wearing the flaming eye. The reprint of T1 depicted the ghouls (or are they the zombies?) from beneath the Moathouse. T1-4 had the facade of the TOEE itself on the front cover. (Was there ever a better front cover for a mod?) Even "Return" shows a guard or priest peering from a lit door into a shadowy hallway which could conceivably be an Elemental cultist guarding one of the Temple's many hallways. The cover of the 4E version of Hommlet, on the other hand, shows a shadowy skyline of a "village" that bears absolutely no resemblance to the original Hommlet. There are harpies, dragons, and what? gargoyles? quasits? imps? perching on roofs and hovering over what seems more like a small city, judging by the skyline. Huh? No way was this picture drawn with Hommlet in mind. This was a picture of an entirely different place pasted on the cover with little regard to what was printed on the pages behind it.
2) Interior art and maps. Almost all of the interior art is recycled from the original. (They even repeat the same picture on the bottom of both page 1 and page 2!) The maps are repeated endlessly as well. There are 7 different maps for the Moathouse basement alone. 1 on the back page that depicts the whole level and then 6 inside that show smaller sections of the basement with some additional tactical notations. Maybe my first edition is showing, but how many tactical maps must one have? The map on the back page was plenty big enough to add whatever tactical detail deemed necessary. The repetition was both unnecessary and unfortunate because it wasted interior space that would have been better spent on...
3) Flavor. As in there was nearly none. A great deal of the original flavor was watered down, generalized, or missing entirely. Elmo no longer has a "brudder Otis". Kobort and Turuko are also gone. Many of the other named NPC's from the original are given short shrift and have been drained of personality. Jaroo and Gundigoot are no longer well meaning snoops with a cache of weapons laid secretly by in the cellar as insurance against the reemergence of dark times. Furnok of Ferd is now a dwarf(!?) without his "loaded knucklebones" and he no longer offers up a scroll in the hopes of parlaying it into far more... Gone is the detailed look at the Church of St. Cuthbert (now replaced with the ubiquitous Pelor) with its delightful, almost Zen like, koans. (SQUARE CORNERS CAN BE POUNDED SMOOTH or LAWFUL CORRECTION LIES IN A STOUT BILLET - classic!) None of the missing material is replaced with anything of substance or anything new.
There is a new 2 sided color map, you say? It is a cheap version of a Paizo Flip Mat, I say.
It is an homage to D&D's roots, you say? It is a lazy, uninspired "effort" that does little to capture the feel of the original "Gygaxian" roots of the game, I say.
All in all, a shameful exploitation of one of the original icons of our game. I can't even begin to imagine what Gary Gygax would think.
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-snip - good points
You only forgot one thing. The shrinking of the moathouse itself :) See here.
I can't even begin to imagine what Gary Gygax would think.
Especially, given that they even put his name on the cover.
Well, you get what you pay for...
;)
My friend just received this in the mail so I had a chance to look it over yesterday. I own every published version of Hommlet and have run each version of this adventure at least once. The 4E version of The Village of Hommlet is, in a word, awful.
Sounds like the product just isn't for you. You probably shouldn't buy it.
Oh.
Right.
What do you mean by 'tease you' and why is there a problem here? I mean beyond the product being designed for 4E (which, of course, it would be). Presumably the whole point of such a product is to give nods to what has gone before while providing something that can be played with the new system. My feeling is that a product like this succeeds if an old timer familiar with what has gone before can point to things that he or she recognizes and yet the product works well enough with the current version of the game that someone with no historical knowledge or attachment to the product is still entertained in utilizing it.
Not only are you correct Tatt, but this is more of the same garbage from our friends at WoTC, who will make an occasional nod to the "old school" players & the history of the game; but they never do anything more than tease you, thinking that it will inspire us old time d&d players to buy yet more of their current (4.0) products, which presumably will contain yet more nods to the Old School themes & locales. There never are. There won't be any more Greyhawk, hell, there won't even be any classic Forgetable Realms for those so inclined. (WoTC) has worn out that old hat once too often...
I mean "tease you" by implying that the adventure, e-magazine, or campaign setting in question contains features that link/connect it to the eariler editions & history of the game. The "Return to the: Tomb of Horrors, White Plume Mountain, Keep on the Borderlands, & Against the Giants" adventures of the late 2nd edition of the game and those of 3rd edition (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft & Greyhawk Ruins, and the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth), are examples of what I am referring to. They ALL contained old and new content about a classic location/setting from an earlier edition of the game. How many of these adventures or supplements has WoTC produced since 4th edition began. Zero. I don't deem a reprint of Hommlett under the 4th edition rules as anything more than what it is. A reprint, and a mediocre one at that.
3rd edition "officially" made Greyhawk the default campaign, and then went on to produce almost NO products for that setting. That makes no sense to me, save perhaps, that the tag of the official setting, which is not then marketed, was to get the old school players to take an interest in the new edition. 4th edition makes even less of a nod to the "old school" themes, locations, past adventures, rules/mechanics, etc., of the game, than did 3rd edition. I am no longer able to be swayed (for example) to subscribe to the DDI, just because there is an 'article' about the Tomb of Horrors. Give me a full sized adventure (sequel or prequel) to a classic adventure or setting under the 4E system; or don't expect I'm going to buy it! Simply having some nameless author crap out a short article on the origins of Acererak, isn't a lure anymore. Give me a legitimate product rooted in the history of the game, or I'm not considering purchasing the product. I'll leave that to those who will buy anything WoTC publishes.
I mean "tease you" by implying that the adventure, e-magazine, or campaign setting in question contains features that link/connect it to the eariler editions & history of the game. The "Return to the: Tomb of Horrors, White Plume Mountain, Keep on the Borderlands, & Against the Giants" adventures of the late 2nd edition of the game and those of 3rd edition (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft & Greyhawk Ruins, and the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth), are examples of what I am referring to. They ALL contained old and new content about a classic location/setting from an earlier edition of the game. How many of these adventures or supplements has WoTC produced since 4th edition began. Zero. I don't deem a reprint of Hommlett under the 4th edition rules as anything more than what it is. A reprint, and a mediocre one at that.
3rd edition "officially" made Greyhawk the default campaign, and then went on to produce almost NO products for that setting. That makes no sense to me, save perhaps, that the tag of the official setting, which is not then marketed, was to get the old school players to take an interest in the new edition. 4th edition makes even less of a nod to the "old school" themes, locations, past adventures, rules/mechanics, etc., of the game, than did 3rd edition. I am no longer able to be swayed (for example) to subscribe to the DDI, just because there is an 'article' about the Tomb of Horrors. Give me a full sized adventure (sequel or prequel) to a classic adventure or setting under the 4E system; or don't expect I'm going to buy it! Simply having some nameless author crap out a short article on the origins of Acererak, isn't a lure anymore. Give me a legitimate product rooted in the history of the game, or I'm not considering purchasing the product. I'll leave that to those who will buy anything WoTC publishes.
So then the problem would seem to be that there simply is not enough focus on Greyhawk. The odd product might feature it but probably not more then something every two or three months and often this is nothing more then maybe a DDI article on Iggwilv.
Fine, I see your point and suspect your concerns are highly unlikely to be addressed. Chances are fans of all the various campaign settings will get little more then 'teasing' in this regards. They might stick out a 4E Darksun but we'll not see a major Darksun product monthly after that or anything. It'll just be the odd taste and that probably mostly in DDI.
Its widely believed that a major contributor to what dragged TSR down was fracturing their market from D&D players to Krynn players or Spelljammer players or even Greyhawk players. Since WotC would appear to very much hold this view I can't see them following course down this path. Most campaign specific material will likely be DDI only though some product might get a hardbound if its easy to take the material and port it to most campaign settings - which is a benefit of a lot of Greyhawk stuff compared to Planscape or Birthright material. I've run [/i]Keep on the Borderlands[/i] or its Silver Anniversary Edition sequel twice in campaigns that had nothing to do with Greyhawk - its converts easily so we might see more of that sort of thing...also wasn't Keep on the Borderlands actually in Mysteria?
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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To be honest, I'm kind of worried. I'm not talking about the adventure itself: if I get bored and want to run or play a 4e game, hey, I have this free adventure. Woot.
No, what worries me is that WotC KNOWS MY ADDRESS. I'm still signed up due to my days in Living Greyhawk, but I never updated my information on their site. I've also moved since then. Yet, they know where to send stuff to me, without needing to be rerouted by the post office? How the hell did they figure out where I am?
No, what worries me is that WotC KNOWS MY ADDRESS. I'm still signed up due to my days in Living Greyhawk, but I never updated my information on their site. I've also moved since then. Yet, they know where to send stuff to me, without needing to be rerouted by the post office? How the hell did they figure out where I am?
Consult Oracle.
I got mine last night. As a DM who's run 1st edition Village of Hommlet and Temple of Elemental Evil and 3rd edition Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, this new version works for me.
Do you have to be a DDI subscriber to be a part of the RPGA?
Do you have to be a DDI subscriber to be a part of the RPGA?
Nope. It's free and open to everyone.