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Hello everyone its your friendly Vamp with another question.
I want to create a Spell and I need your help.
1. When employed it will be Cone Shape (as the "Cone of Cold")
2. It will have a Reflex save?
3. Caster Level.. not sure need help there.
What this spell will do.
Anti-gravity, and crushes the individual like a black hole.
4. lasts so many rounds per caster level?
5. I was thinking 2d8 damage per caster level.. :) save Constitution check for half?
So I need help with the following.
Name of the spell
What spell level do you think this should be at.
And what modifications would you employ or change.
Should this be an evil spell, or general spell.
Thanks for your assistance..
Vampress!
Black Hole
School conjuration (Teleportation); Level sorcerer/wizard 7
CASTING
Casting Time 1 Round
Components V, S, M (Piece of Obsidian worth 250 gp)
EFFECT
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect 5 foot diameter sphere, see below
Duration 1 Round per 2 caster levels
Saving Throw Fort for half see below; Spell Resistance no
DESCRIPTION
A miniature black hole is created in the fabric of space causing the following effects.
Anyone within 40 feet of the black hole must make a Strength check (DC 10 + caster level) or be sucked 5 feet closer to the black hole for every 5 points they fail the check by. Anyone within 10 feet of the black hole starts having their very bodies pulled apart by the tremendous pull of the black hole: They take 4d8 damage every round (Fort save 1/2 damage). Anyone standing right beside the epicenter of the black hole must make a fortitude save or take 10 points of damage per caster level of the caster. If this damage is more than their HP + 10 they are sucked into the black hole and may not be raised except by true resurrection, or by a properly worded wish spell to bring the body back (miracle will work too) followed by a resurrection spell as normal.
The black hole may not be moved after it is created.
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Black Hole
School conjuration (Teleportation); Level sorcerer/wizard 7
CASTING
Casting Time 1 Round
Components V, S, M (Piece of Obsidian worth 250 gp)
EFFECT
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect 5 foot diameter sphere, see below
Duration 1 Round per 2 caster levels
Saving Throw Fort for half see below; Spell Resistance no
DESCRIPTION
A miniature black hole is created in the fabric of space causing the following effects.Anyone within 40 feet of the black hole must make a Strength check (DC 10 + caster level) or be sucked 5 feet closer to the black hole for every 5 points they fail the check by. Anyone within 10 feet of the black hole starts having their very bodies pulled apart by the tremendous pull of the black hole: They take 4d8 damage every round (Fort save 1/2 damage). Anyone standing right beside the epicenter of the black hole must make a fortitude save or take 10 points of damage per caster level of the caster. If this damage is more than their HP + 10 they are sucked into the black hole and may not be raised except by true resurrection, or by a properly worded wish spell to bring the body back (miracle will work too) followed by a resurrection spell as normal.
The black hole may not be moved after it is created.
Interesting Abraham, was this an actual spell I missed or did you neatly just create that? Very powerful, can it be dispelled?
I sort of wanted to also incorperate maybe a high pitch sonic attack as the black hole is created sort of like a Sonic Fireball.. a rippling of space.. and then the next round the black hole takes effect.. what do you people think?
I just threw that together, I went with seventh level since it had the aspects of several other spells: Telekinesis or clenched hand for forced movement (5th level) acid cloud for Damage over Time (6th) and the good old necro sort of damage for when they get to the center. However the material component is rather expensive for a spell, and it'll affect allies and enemies alike requiring very judicious use.
I just threw that together, I went with seventh level since it had the aspects of several other spells: Telekinesis or clenched hand for forced movement (5th level) acid cloud for Damage over Time (6th) and the good old necro sort of damage for when they get to the center. However the material component is rather expensive for a spell, and it'll affect allies and enemies alike requiring very judicious use.
Gotta be careful whipping up new spells and assigning spell levels to them.
Acid Fog deals 2d6/round (7 HP/round average).
Black Hole deals 4d8/round (18 HP/round average).
That's a big jump right there, but it gets bigger.
Even further, Acid fog covers 40 squares, each of which potentially takes that 7 HP/round, so that's potentially 280 HP/round, on average, spread throughout its area.
Black hole has 12 squares that take that average of 18 HP per round and 9 more squares that take exactly 130 HP at the minimum caster level of the spell. That's a total of 1,386 HP damage per round throughout the area of the spell, about 4.5 times more damage than Acid Fog.
Even more, a STR check of DC 23 (minimum caster level) is relatively hard to make. An Ice Devil (CR 13) would need to roll a 17 on the STR check. A storm giant (cr 13) would only need a 9, but he's the biggest baddest muscliest giant in the SRD. A gargantuan purple worm needs an 11. A typical 13th level fighter would need about a 15, and a typical 13th level mage would have no chance. Liches and beholders would be completely doomed.
So, enemies within 40 feet are likely to fail their STR checks most of the time. That's an extra 124 squares where a creature takes no damage, but most likely, is immobilized (Acid Fog does not immobilize anyone) and worse, pulled into that damage range.
Acid Fog will almost never kill anything of CR13 or higher, or even of CR 11. Let's face it, 2d6 HP/round is pretty minimal at those levels, even with no save. If Acid Fog does kill someone, they can be resurrected normally.
Black Hole will absolutely kill most things it hits within a 3x3 square area , and very likely other things in the next few squares out will be sucked in and killed. None of those can be resurrected without a 9th level spell.
Note that with this kind of damage, the ice devil dies in 2 rounds, 3 if it makes all its Fort saves, and the storm giant dies in 2 rounds, 4 if it makes all its Fort saves.
By comparison, a Maximized Meteor Swarm (a level 12 spell) cannot kill an uninjured storm giant at all even if you target it with all 4 meteors and make all 4 ranged touch attacks, in which case you will drop the giant down to 5 HP.
Given all this, I'm not sure I would allow such a powerful spell as a mere 7th level spell.
The "acid test" (no pun intended) would be to ask yourself which actual 7th level spell you would prepare in the morning if this spell were on your list.
For the test, only consider AE damage spells. Sure, you might prepare Banishment or Finger of Death, but not because you wanted to do AE damage. So to compare apples to apples, is there a 7th level AE damage spell that can touch this one?
No. If this were on the 7th level spell list, every mage in the world would prepare this spell exclusively, ignoring all others, with the outside chance that they might grab a Prismatic Spray, but not because the Spray does more damage, but rather because it has a good chance of requiring different saves and therefore isn't quite as easy to defeat by tough foes with high Fort saves. But even that is a stretch.
Moving up to 8th level, there is nothing in 8th level that I would prepare for AE damage if this were on the 8th level list.
Moving up to 9th level, this spell still compares favorably to Meteor Swarm, though if Black Hole were on the 9th level list, and I could pick two AE damage spells, I might pick one of each.
So for me, after running the numbers I just posted, I don't think I could let this spell into the game at any level less than 9th.
Reduce the area, drop the True Resurrection requirement, reduce the STR check to CL+5, and drop to 1d6/caster level instead of 10 HP/caster level, call it "Black Hole, Lesser", and I would see this as a 7th level spell. (I didn't run those numbers - all those changes might even drop it to level 6, but I doubt it).
The strength check should probably drop but I'm seeing the math quite differently:
Acid Fog is a 6th level spell, covers 40' diameter and lasts for 13 rounds at 13th level for 2d6 damage / round.
Black hole as posted here is a 7th level spell, covers 10' for damage and only lasts for 6 rounds (1 every 2 caster levels) at 4d8 damage / round.
Average damage per round is 7 for Acid fog, 18 for Black Hole.
That's 44 squares for acid fog, and 12 for Black Hole.
44 * 7 = 308 damage per round (average yield, maximum targets) -- acid fog
12 * 18 = 216 damage per round (average yield, maximum targets) -- black hole
308 * 13 rounds = 4,004 damage per casting (average yield, maximum targets) -- Acid Fog
216 * 6 = 1,296 damage per casting (aymt) -- Black Hole
Now at maximum damage we have:
12 acid fog, 32 black hole at maximum targets for a total per casting damage of:
6,864 Acid Fog
2,304 Black Hole
Of course we have 6 chances that someone will get sucked into the black hole so assuming they fail their saves that adds 130 damage per failure = 780 points of extra damage from failing
so a total damage of:
6,864 Acid Fog
3,084 Black Hole
Black Hole does have a several other things going for it of course: It sucks them in, and it is not elemental damage -- However it is also a spell level more expensive, takes a round to cast as opposed to a standard action (meaning it is easier to disrupt) and has a costly component -- something Acid Fog does not have, meaning the wizard in question may not have the tools needed to cast it.
On first edit I would do the following to this spell (realise this was posted late -- for me -- without any editing):
1st -- Reduce the Strength check to 20 feet radius
2nd -- DC 5 + caster level.
3rd -- Change the direct damage to only one creature a round that must be inside the sphere (pulled completely in) I meant for it to be that way to begin with but didn't word it properly.
4th -- Point out clearly that if you make the save throw against the 10/CL damage you don't take any from that, all or nothing.
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Wow.. good stuff there.
I was sort of looking for a unique spell possibly from the shadow weave.
bassically I wanted a "Cone" effect emmenating from the spell user. I like black hole, but I guess there is already one out there.
SO I was thinking of Spiral shadowy shapes that streak out from the caster, causing:
Anti-gravity
Crusing effect
and possible Constitution drain.
Tell me how I can create that, and what possible level it should be, components and stuff.
Thanks for your help with this.. I just want it to make sense.. even though magic sometimes does not.
The strength check should probably drop but I'm seeing the math quite differently:
Acid Fog is a 6th level spell, covers 40' diameter and lasts for 13 rounds at 13th level for 2d6 damage / round.
Black hole as posted here is a 7th level spell, covers 10' for damage and only lasts for 6 rounds (1 every 2 caster levels) at 4d8 damage / round.
Average damage per round is 7 for Acid fog, 18 for Black Hole.
That's 44 squares for acid fog, and 12 for Black Hole.
I think, as written, your black hole is bigger than you think.
You wrote it as a 5' black hole, so the target square is filled with the black hole.
Then anyone within 10' of that takes 4d8 damage from being torn apart.
And "anyone standing right beside the epicenter of the black hole must make a fortitude save or take 10 points of damage per caster level of the caster."
So I diagram this as follows:
-sss-
sbbbs
sbHbs
sbbbs
-sss-
- = no damage
s = small damage 4d8/round for being within 10' but not right next to the epicenter
b = big damage 10 HP/caster level for being right next to the epicenter
H = the black hole iteself
Now it's not clear from the text exactly what damage someone takes if they are in the same 5' square as the black hole. I assume it's identical to what those "right next to the epicenter" will take.
So that's 9 squares that inflict the 130 damage every round, and 12 more squares that inflict just 4d8 each round, but if you're in those squares, you can almost plan on being sucked into the epicenter-ish squares next round anyway.
44 * 7 = 308 damage per round (average yield, maximum targets) -- acid fog
12 * 18 = 216 damage per round (average yield, maximum targets) -- black hole
308 * 13 rounds = 4,004 damage per casting (average yield, maximum targets) -- Acid Fog
216 * 6 = 1,296 damage per casting (aymt) -- Black Hole
Now at maximum damage we have:
12 acid fog, 32 black hole at maximum targets for a total per casting damage of:
6,864 Acid Fog
2,304 Black HoleOf course we have 6 chances that someone will get sucked into the black hole so assuming they fail their saves that adds 130 damage per failure = 780 points of extra damage from failing
so a total damage of:
6,864 Acid Fog
3,084 Black Hole
Obvously, your math is quite different from mine. Maybe I just misundestood the text of your spell. If so, maybe I'm just dense like a black hole...
But if I did misunderstand it, maybe the text could be cleaned up a bit to more clearly indicate your intent. "right next to the epcicenter" seems to be where you and I are getting different interpretations.
Black Hole does have a several other things going for it of course: It sucks them in, and it is not elemental damage -- However it is also a spell level more expensive, takes a round to cast as opposed to a standard action (meaning it is easier to disrupt) and has a costly component -- something Acid Fog does not have, meaning the wizard in question may not have the tools needed to cast it.
On first edit I would do the following to this spell (realise this was posted late -- for me -- without any editing):
1st -- Reduce the Strength check to 20 feet radius
2nd -- DC 5 + caster level.
3rd -- Change the direct damage to only one creature a round that must be inside the sphere (pulled completely in) I meant for it to be that way to begin with but didn't word it properly.
Ahh, now it makes more sense at the level you wrote it, espcially with these changes.
But I wonder, why would a black hole (even a tiny fake temporary one created by magic) only suck in one foe at a time? That sounds almost as bizarre as a fireball burning only one person in its area of effect at a time.
I was thinking that the "hole" actually takes up much less space (something on the order of .0000000001 of an inch) than a 5x5 square... it's just that's the point of no return, and with it being that small only so much matter can be around it at one time... everything else has to wait it's turn so to speak, add in the fact that it is a temporary and fake one, and this is the effect I see.
On the OP's request for a cone of gravity effect:
Gravitation Flux
5th level spell (Evocation? unlike BH above this one just messes up the normal physics of gravity in the area involved)
1d8 per 2 caster levels (Fort for half)
30' Cone
No spell Resistance?
CMB check by caster with Caster level and casting score as the modifier to bull rush everyone in the area of the spell (roll once and apply to each maybe to keep from bogging down on the rolls?).
A little less damage and range than a cone of cold, but the damage is none elemental, and the cone has a chance to push everyone back too.