Can anyone point me toward the rules for khopeshes? Also, what is the plural form of khopesh?
I could be wrong on this (does anyone speak Egyptian here who can offer a real answer?) but I believe it's the same singular or plural.
A khopesh.
Many khopesh.
It's a fairly weak weapon that people stopped using more than a thousand years before Christ, mainly because better weapons were available.
For those unfamiliar with khopesh, you can see hundreds of them in the first two "The Mummy" movies starring Brandon Frasier. The dog-soldiers of Anubis are wielding them.
Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khopesh
As for D&D stats, I am sure I have them somewhere, but I'm not sure I agreed with what was written in the books.
Me, I would call it a martial weapon, give it size and weight of a longsword but damage of a handaxe (since it was primarily used as an axe, but without the weight of the larger medieval european axe heads), and give it the ability to trip a foe without risking being tripped in return (using the backside of the hooked blade, which is not sharpened and might have been used to trip). I would not give it a bonus to the CMB rolls for tripping (for reasons detailed below).
I think the D&D stats I have in some book somewhere made the knopesh an exotic weapon with the damage of a longsword, but this is where I disagree. It's shorter than a longsword and probably lighter, too.
Quite frankly, if the khopesh had been as deadly as a longsword and capable of tripping, snaring, or disarming a foe as well (as D&D seems to pretend unless I'm misremembering), it would not have faded from historical usage before 1,000 B.C.
In reality, the weapon was too short (only about 18-20 inches long, half a meter for you metric readers) to actually be effective as a tripping tool (by the time you're close enough to hook a knee, you're well within your opponent's strike range).
One might ask why the blade curves so much if not for tripping (it's a horrible design for trying to disarm a foe). If only we had a 3500 year old Egyptian or Canaanite soldier here to train us.
Looking at the weapon and applying logic, one might speculate that a pair of soldiers working in tandem might have one of them use the hook to pull the enemy closer, yanking him off balance while his buddy takes advantage and attacks him. But that's just a guess, and it doesn't translate well to D&D weapon qualities.
Also working in tandem, one soldier might get close enough, safely, while his buddy keeps the foe occupied, and therefore might be able to successfully trip the foe. And then both soldiers could dispatch the prone foe with ease. Of course, he might have just hacked him successfully, too, but in those days, with broze weapons, keeping a reliable edge on them was difficult, and often edged weapons were more useful as bludgeoning implements - a less reliable method of killing - so tripping may have reduced the risk vs. trying to bludgeon the foe.
Note: actual descriptions of khopesh describe them as fairly heavy, but remember that they were made primarily of bronze, a fairly heavy metal compared to a steel weapon of the same size. If ancient Egypt had been aware of medieval blacksmithing techniques and able to make their khopesh out of steel, I surmise the weight would have been less than a longsword because the overall weapon length was significantly shorter.
Anyway, that's my two bits.
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I could be wrong on this (does anyone speak Egyptian here who can offer a real answer?) but I believe it's the same singular or plural.
A khopesh.
Many khopesh.
Hmmm...It predates modern Egyptian, so I can't really help. However, if you just want something that sounds near-eastern, Khopesh might be pluralized
Kho-wa-peesh
or
Kho-pesh-oon
Of course, if you are going for utility vice flavor, I'd vote for the one Khopesh, many Khopesh.
I'd also vote for the handaxe damage.
Thanks for the info. I was surprised to see that the khopesh wasn't in the Legacy of Fire players guide.
I believe that the Pathfinder Campaign Setting has stats for the Khopesh. Don't have a copy of it, so I can't verify, but I'm pretty sure it's in there.
I believe that the Pathfinder Campaign Setting has stats for the Khopesh. Don't have a copy of it, so I can't verify, but I'm pretty sure it's in there.
Nope, no Khopesh, but you might have seen the picture of the Dogslicer which seems similar in look at least to the Khopesh.
Was its weakness not merely due to the fact that it was bronze?
Was its weakness not merely due to the fact that it was bronze?
Historically speaking, bronze spears and bronze swords were used for 1500 years after the khopesh dropped out of circulation.
Logic would say that the extra weight inherent in the shape of the khopesh was exacerbated by the heavy bronze construction, and had people been using steel khopeshes and steel swords, the khopesh may not have been quite as disadvantaged.
However, history also shows that as material workmanship improved, evolving from bronze to iron to steel, the size and length of weapons increased. So, likely, khopesh would have grown bigger with better materials too, so would still have been unwieldy.
If they didn't, then they would have been disadvantaged by their lack of reach. A 28-30 inch sword would have a big advantage over an 18-20 inch khopesh in reach, and a 28-30 inch sword would have a big advantage over an 28-30 inch khopesh in weight and quickness.
Either way, I think the khopesh was doomed from the start, but that just may be my uninformed opinion.
Thanks. It's a reasoned opinion.
Can anyone point me toward the rules for khopeshes? Also, what is the plural form of khopesh?
Two-handed martial weapon
Osirian khopesh 20 gp 1d8 1d10 19–20/x2 — 8 lb. SlashingOsirian Khopesh: The Osirian khopesh begins as a straight
blade extending 2 feet from its hilt. It then extends a further
2 feet in a curved crescent, enabling the weapon to be used for
trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt,
you can drop the khopesh to avoid being tripped.
Can anyone point me toward the rules for khopeshes?
You might look at the stats of the "Temple Sword" in the write-up of the Iconic Monk, in the back of the Second Darkness adventure path.
Can anyone point me toward the rules for khopeshes? Also, what is the plural form of khopesh?Two-handed martial weapon
Osirian khopesh 20 gp 1d8 1d10 19–20/x2 — 8 lb. SlashingOsirian Khopesh: The Osirian khopesh begins as a straight
blade extending 2 feet from its hilt. It then extends a further
2 feet in a curved crescent, enabling the weapon to be used for
trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt,
you can drop the khopesh to avoid being tripped.
::face palm:: I looked for Khopesh, by eye ::laughing:: Totally missed seeing that one ... that'll larn me :)
::face palm:: I looked for Khopesh, by eye ::laughing:: Totally missed seeing that one ... that'll larn me :)
Ugh.. I did the exact same thing :-). Thanks KaeYoss.
Well the issue is it's not a sword. A khopesh is an ax, also known as a cannite sword. they where not used to trip or any such thing, they are axes and where used as an axe. Much like a falcutta it was the blow they could inflict that made them worth using. They like an axe took more room to use then a sword and feel out of use after longer reach weapons came into use, also thrusting weapons like a short sword become more favored as it was easier to use in formation as a khopesh like an axe needs room
Canaanite?
yep over look my misspellings I am not feeling well so Didn't take the time to look up the right spelling.
The khopesh is the Egyptian name it was known by a few others
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Canaanite?
Nah, he's got it right. It comes fromt he fact that they used it as a can opener.
not the pathfinder one...it's two handed for some reason
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not the pathfinder one...it's two handed for some reason
You open your cans your way, I open my cans my way. Back off! (And I don't just mean "stop cramping my style" or something - my way of opening cans is very messy)
I love to know what show that was, if anybody knows.
One thing about the cable history channels and shows: when they're right, it's great. When they're wrong, its embarrassingly bad. I wish they had better quality control.
There was a show on either the history channel or discovery about the khopesh. And it was guite the functional sword. The tip of the sword was "hooked" and could be used to move a shield out of the way. It could also be used to trip your opponent.
It was also a chopping weapon. Functionally, it was very much like an axe.
Like has been noted the history channel had a rather excellent show on recently about biblical battles. It went into some detail about why the Khopesh was dropped in favor of a straight blade.
In general basically the straight blade was lighter and quicker, being able to cut with either side and it could be used for thrusting as well. A pretty big advantage in close unit fighting against shield using foes.
There was a show on either the history channel or discovery about the khopesh. And it was guite the functional sword. The tip of the sword was "hooked" and could be used to move a shield out of the way. It could also be used to trip your opponent.
that does not sound like a khopesh, It was used axe like, nothing fancy to it. It was a weapon of Brut force that feel out of use when faster blades became common. It needed space a thrusting short sword common to the time was a much faster weapon up close. Also short blades where easier to make, just a note really
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I had been looking for that particular episode for an hour before I posted. I want to say it was the History Channel because, now that Battlestar is finally out of its misery, it and the Discovery Channel are the only ones I watch. And I don't remember seeing any ads for Dirty Jobs or Mythbusters.I love to know what show that was, if anybody knows.
One thing about the cable history channels and shows: when they're right, it's great. When they're wrong, its embarrassingly bad. I wish they had better quality control.
I believe the show is called Warriors and the episode in question was about Joshuah and the walls of Jericho. Or maybe it was Battles can't seem to remember which.
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Thought I would throw up a link with many versions of historical khopesh on it Here
for a home game I would use a battleax stats off hand.
Great resources on the khopesh, guys. Thanks.
Great resources on the khopesh, guys. Thanks.
Yeah, this has been awesome. I expected a stat line and got a full blown Khopesh history/technique lesson. Gotta love the Paizo message boards.
Well this came from the 3.0 FRCS
Cost 20 GP Dmg: 1d8 Crit:19-20 x2 Wt 12lbs can be used to make trip attacks
As always the wt is off..sigh but really this is closer then 1d6 which does not fit as this thing cleaved though shields and helms.
It was a chopping weapon, like the falcutta and the axe, not a slashing weapon such as a scimitar, which ya know used to be a d8 as well
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2 years later:
The Khopesh was an extremely versatile weapon that could be used to chop, slash, thrust and even pull a shield out of the way to get at a foe.
There are videos on youtube where you can watch it in action.
The egyptian army used it for centuries: But it was a lot harder to forge than a straight sword, or an axe, and so fell out of favor after the empire crumbled. It was all but forgotten save from unearthed artifacts and wall carvings.
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PS Egyptian Kopesh will yield the best results on your search:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OukyEkqV434
The start of a good series on the weapon :!)
6 years later and the weight of the khopesh is still off by 400%.
And PF still pretends the Falchion is a huge, heavy two-hander. So?
(For anyone reading this that still wants khopesh stats, it's in Ultimate Equipment. Basically Longsword stats, but with the Trip property.)