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Okay - I picked up my copy today (along with the Power Cards). This is a highly subjective interpretation of the book.
Layout: The inside layout is “4E Standard.” I’ve heard a lot of people complain about the font sizes, wasted space, etc. Me, I like the layout. I think it all ties back to my visit to my optometrist and she hit me with the “Men of your age …” speech. Not only did it crush any illusions I had of ever landing a hottie, I found I had a problem reading as well. It does have a lot of “sound bite” cheesy quotes that others listed. It’s like a textual version of a bodybuilding contest – each quote flexing and posing in an attempt to outdo the next. Since the layout is nothing new – either you’re going to like it, or you’re not going to like it.
Races: Five new races. Now I come from the universe where the “core books” (DMG, PHB, MM) were all I ever needed because I played so infrequently that I never “wore out” the basic stuff. Your own opinion may differ, but personally I felt somewhat cheated that gnomes and half-orcs were not in the original game. With that in mind, I was completely unprepared to have the Devas completely knock me out of my seat. I love this race, and you can be sure I will be playing one very soon. I personally liked the gnome and the half-orcs. I looked at goliaths and shifters and went “half giant and Eberron – bleh” and moved on about my business.
Racial Paragon Paths: Interesting. I'm still processing.
Classes: Again, I felt cheated that we didn’t get sorcerer, druid and bard classes, so I was anxious for those. Barbarians NEVER did it for me – I am sad to say the verdict remains the same this edition too. The class that completely knocked be off my chair again however was the Avenger. Paladins have always been my class-of-choice. Being able to play one from this side of the motivations also appeals to me greatly. I think Bard is also smashing, and I’m looking forward to running one of those too. Stirring Shout, the level 1 Daily power, allows your bard to “mark” a target. Each time an ally hits that target, they regain hit points equal to your CHA mod. A perfect, low-level spell for those solo and elite encounters.
New Stuff:
Backgrounds allows you to buff up your backstory. There’s some new feats, magic items, 23 new rituals (9 are bard-only), a couple of rules updates and the new Stealth rules.
Overall impression is that the book is going to add a lot of new options that my players are going to love, and a bunch that I am anxious to play myself. Overall, I feel this book definitely belongs on the gaming shelf. I myself play AND DM, but even if I just DM’d I’d want a copy for me to read.
It’s like a textual version of a bodybuilding contest – each quote flexing and posing in an attempt to outdo the next.
I remember when Complete Mage was released it had little quotations peppered throughout the book - each arcane spellcasting iconic was given one, and they all took subtle (or not-so-subtle) digs at the others. Invariably cheesy, but kind of a neat look at the interplay between the various classes. The sorcerer one read, "Power? Wizards know nothing of power. Yes, they have their rituals and books, but take that away and what remains? They only use magic. I am magic. Take from me and you will only invoke my wrath. Then, and only then will you see real power."
So is the PHB2 the end of the PHB's?
S.
Nope, the assumed product schedule provides for roughly one Player's Handbook per year - a steady stream of new player material.
It’s like a textual version of a bodybuilding contest – each quote flexing and posing in an attempt to outdo the next.I remember when Complete Mage was released it had little quotations peppered throughout the book - each arcane spellcasting iconic was given one, and they all took subtle (or not-so-subtle) digs at the others. Invariably cheesy, but kind of a neat look at the interplay between the various classes. The sorcerer one read, "Power? Wizards know nothing of power. Yes, they have their rituals and books, but take that away and what remains? They only use magic. I am magic. Take from me and you will only invoke my wrath. Then, and only then will you see real power."
Thanks for the quick impression. I'm going to pick up a copy...looking forward to the half-orc and also the new rituals in particular.
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So is the PHB2 the end of the PHB's?
S.
As you know, the classes "divvied up" per the power sources. On page 54 of the PHB1 it lists the sources that would be included in the future. Please note that it doesn't say this list is all-inclusive, so I would assume there could be others, but from that list we have yet to see any elemental, ki, psionic or shadow-based characters. For me, I know I am very interested in seeing the psionics come up next, but who knows.
PS: Why psionics? Because I just have this Kylie Minogue video stuck in my head, and I see a clairsentient telepath in that same diaphanous white "hoodie-all" she wears. The song lyrics and her kinda-creepy eyes ... I used the Overmind diety out of Dragon Magazine to support that, and created the College of Clarity as my in-game "support institute." But, you didn't come here for that - so I apologize for the rabbit track.
I may have to pick up a copy of this. While I have the phb hard copy and the dmg and MM on disc, I have only played the game once. My thoughts of it were so-so but I am not going to get into a debate about that. But from the comments I have been hearing maybe some of what I felt was missing from 4th edition has been made available to us in the phb 2...Familiars,gnomes....Hmm, quite interesting.
I may have to pick up a copy of this. While I have the phb hard copy and the dmg and MM on disc, I have only played the game once. My thoughts of it were so-so but I am not going to get into a debate about that. But from the comments I have been hearing maybe some of what I felt was missing from 4th edition has been made available to us in the phb 2...Familiars,gnomes....Hmm, quite interesting.
Familiars are in Arcane Power, which will be out soon. If you can't wait until it comes out, a couple familiars (and the feat that allows you to use them) are available for free here. Elements from D&D 3.5 Core that are in the PHB2 include: Half-orcs, gnomes, devas (like aasimars), barbarians, bards, druids and sorcerers. I think that's all of them but I could be missing a couple.
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Could someone set out what the new classes are? Cheers.
I'll lay them out via class, Source and Role, and then a little about the class, and maybe a power or two that I really noticed. You'll definitely note which ones I've really looked at, and which ones have only gotten a cursory glance.
Avenger - Divine Striker. This is a one-on-one type of fighter with powers to isolate or chase down enemies. Overwhelming Strike: When you hit the enemy, you can shift one square, and slide the target into the space you just left. Oath of Emnity: If your target is the only enemy adjacent to you, you make TWO attack rolls and use either result. Yowza!
Barbarian - Primal Striker. Two-handed weapon monster that either ignores damage through attacks that grant temporary hit points or ignore pain and dish out more hurt through attacks that pump +attack and/or +dmg bonuses. If you're raging (an effect triggered by your daily powers at 1st level) then things get REALLY interesting.
Bard - Arcane Leader. Multiclass master as they can pick and choose from more than one class. Not a bad healer either. One of the powers I thought was REALLY powerful was Misdirected Mark: hit the target and it is marked by an ally within five squares of you until the end of your next turn. Reminds me of when I was a squad leader and we'd load my magazines with all the tracer rounds so I could direct fires where I needed them. Another one is War Song Strike: Any ally that hits the target before the end of my next turn gains my CON bonus as temp hp.
Druid - Primal Controller. Shape changer and controller of the spirits of nature. You get the opportunity to use AOE attacks and effects, or you can go RAWR! and make things much more intimate and personal.
Invoker - Divine Controller. Your ties to the astral sea harken back to more primordial times, and your connections to the divine transcend the concepts of individual gods.
Shaman - Primal Leader. Your powers are tied to the spirits, and generally speaking you work through them on the battlefield. You can summon a direct spirit companion and many powers require one, but you don't have to use it for everything.
Sorcerer - Arcane Striker. Channeler of draconic or wild magic. Kind of a blend of Controller and Striker, as a lot of powers push, slide, etc. I would define the sorcerer as a complex character class, as some of the powers are very subtle - Bedeveling Burst: damage, and you push the target one square, however if you're a wild magic sorcerer and you rolled an even number, you slide it instead.
Warden - Primal Defender. This is another defender that marks and manifests powers based upon channeling the natural world. Lots of interesting things like being able to roll saves at the beginning of your turn instead of the end.
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Okay - I picked up my copy today (along with the Power Cards). This is a highly subjective interpretation of the book.
Nice to here someone got their's. My copy is still in Amazon limbo. Amazon says it has shipped by the postal service says that it has no record of the shipment. I'm just hoping it arrives in time for my game on Friday. My group is going to start playing 4th edition as soon as it arrives.
The PHB2 is so full of "win", and so full of "awesome", that I can only describe it as "winsome".
More specifically:
In previous editions, I had no interest whatsoever in playing a half-orc or shifter and the gnome and bard were just too weak.
Now, I can't wait to play a shifter, and I can definitely see myself playing a half-orc, as well. The bard is fantastic and does all of the things I envision a bard doing. They actually seem like they could strike fear into the hearts of enemies instead of being comic relief. I'm not a huge fan of the direction they took with the gnome, so I just flavor them differently in my world. I still don't like the barbarian, and they seem to be precariously close to being broken. However, it would be unfair to make that assumption until I see one in play. I have a feeling the min/maxers will be all over it, though. My take:
Races
Deva - not a fan of the name, but the execution is very solid.
Gnome - love the super stealth, not a fan of the cantrips.
Goliath - fixed version that is exactly what it was meant to be.
Half-orc - perfect blend of hardened warrior and orcish resilience with 100% less big, dumb fighter.
Shifter - their racial powers seem infinitely more useful over the long haul than their 3E counterparts.
Classes
Avenger - what the paladin always wished it could be; they're divine retribution without the Lawful Stupid flavoring.
Barbarian - holy two-handed ridiculousness Batman! I doubt any other class will come close to the damage barbarians will be dishing out this weekend.
Bard - carrying a musical instrument is no longer a reason for the monsters to ignore you :)
Driud - seems cool, but I think I'd have to see one in play to really make up my mind. I prefer the guardians and caretakers of nature version from previous editions to the newer shapeshifter version.
Invoker - seemed kind of weak compared to the wizard, but I haven't played one so...
Shaman - I absolutely love the flavor of the spirit powers, and the class seems to capture the druid feel I prefer. I can't wait to play a shifter shaman.
Sorcerer - for a long time everyone wondered what what they could possibly do with the sorcerer now that the wizard seemed to have taken over his schtick. I think they did a fantastic job of carving out a niche for the sorcerer and that people will be pleasantly surprised. The quote from Complete Mage that Scott shared above - "Power? Wizards know nothing of power. Yes, they have their rituals and books, but take that away and what remains? They only use magic. I am magic. Take from me and you will only invoke my wrath. Then, and only then will you see real power." - fits like a glove.
Warden - I was kind of disappointed in the warden. I like the idea of a primal defender, but they just didn't seem that sexy.
The feats and rituals looked good, although I thought some of the ritual component costs were a little expensive. I haven’t had time to look at the magic items, but that’s one area where I personally believe that less is more.
TigerDave, I too, quite liked the Bard and Avenger, as well as the Shaman. The Deva race is also pretty cool.
And hey, gnomes and goliaths are back as PCs.
Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford talked in detail about the content in the PHB2 on the last episode of Atomic Array. Linkie
I haven't been able to get my hands on the PHB2 yet, but I'm really curious to find out if an idea I had would be plausible.
Would a Multi-classed Paladin/Avenger or Avenger/Paladin work well?
Another one is War Song Strike: Any ally that hits the target before the end of my next turn gains my CON bonus as temp hp.
I may have to steal this.
War Song Strike: Aid STUN 2d6, Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1 1/4), Selective (+1/4) (50 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), Limited Power Those Aided Must First Score a Successful Hit Against Target (-1/2)
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Ladies and gentlemen, brace yourself. Mr Wolfgang Baur himself has reviewed the new Players' Handbook 2, and what he has to say isn't altogether kind.
He does an awfully good job at picking the gems in this mixed bag, and I recommend you to read it in its entirety here:
http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/article205.php
Worth excerpting straight away is something that has pained me about 4E products ever since their inception. While the underlying mechanics is elegant, and the layout communication-friendly, the prose of the new books is nothing if not embarassing of the first order.
Quote:
Language and the Dumb: WotC Goes Emo?There’s no polite way to say this, but a lot of the writing and language in PHB2 are just a little stupid. This isn’t restricted to things like the (embarrassingly bad, half-page-long) index, but rather it’s about the low quality of the prose throughout.
The paragon path for the elf Twilight Guardian starts with “Despoiler! Feel nature’s wrath!“. The Druid entry starts “I am the seeker. I am the stalker. I am the storm.” Both strike me as better left as flavor text on a Magic card than inspirational material for serious D&D players. Maybe it’s just the prevalence of elfy-welfy stuff around the Primal source that’s getting under my skin, but…
Well, fantasy writing has always made room for bombast and overblown, purple prose, but this book cranks it up a couple notches. Words like “peril” and “supplicate” are dropped into sentences that really don’t need them; almost every tagline is “ferocious” or “erupting” or “assaulting”. These are not huge problems; individually, they’re pebbles. But even enough pebbles can be a problem.
It reminds me of some of the worst examples from the White Wolf books of the 90s. Hell, some of the Primal language in particular would be right at home in a Werewolf supplement. Ah, well, flavor is not a 4E strong point, but we’re heading into the realm of comedy this time out. I found myself laughing fairly often, usually not a good sign.
Beyond the pulp diction, there’s plenty of other examples of the flavor just not synching up with the mechanics, or failures of language and mythmaking. The devas are reincarnation-flavored and derived from Hindu myth, but their suggested names include Biblical nods like Samel and Zachar (Samuel and Zacharia).
There’s the lurking sense that the designers are cribbing from bad manga, rather than building on the shoulders of the D&D game’s own mythos. That’s a lost opportunity, and it’s a shame that a game that once prized itself on appealing to an educated audience is no longer even aiming for that. Basically, the PHB2 assumes you are sort of an idiot, whereas Gygax always assumed you were smarter than the average reader. The shift leaves me a little offended.
The closing thought ought to go into an RPG-motivational. Anyone?
Ladies and gentlemen, brace yourself. Mr Wolfgang Baur himself has reviewed the new Players' Handbook 2, and what he has to say isn't altogether kind.
I thought it was a fair and balanced if mostly positive review.
I do have concerns with the style however though mine are maybe not the same as Wolfgangs. I don't mind the dumbing down of the language that much as the goal seems to be making the game more accessible. My problem is that teenagers actually have a very low tolerance for anything that seems corny. Hence I'm concerned that this sort of thing might turn off the very audience they are trying to attract.