No more 2+INT skill progressions

[UndeadDan]

Just like the d4 HP has seen the end of it's life, the PFRPG should do away with the 2+INT progressions.

They are needlessly punishing, to clerics especially.

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Clerics deserve all the punishment they get.

All spells known
Cast in armor and with a flipping TOWER SHIELD
D8 HD
Full Caster level
2 good saves
convert spells at will to cures
2 domains and domain abilities

compaired to an arcane caster.... yeah.

However I agree with you on this. 2 +int is just too little when there are way too many skills out there.

A fighter and wizard are well trained classes where I just don't see them fluff wise getting so little skill points.

[seekerofshadowlight]

No one with more 10 or more int should have less then 4 skills. PFRPG is worse and more crippling then 3.5 was and that was bad enough.

Also the 2 skills are so arbitrary and random.

Fighter, learned and well trained warrior 2 skills
Barbarian wild untrained savage= 4 skills?
Cleric, well educated and learned servant of the gods=2 skills
Druid, nature and lore based caster= 4 skills
Wizard, book learned, well educated, master of much arcane lore= 2 skills?
Sorcerer, self tault, master of the arcane, 2 skills

now how does any of that make a lick of seance?

[Turin the Mad]

UndeadDan wrote:

Just like the d4 HP has seen the end of it's life, the PFRPG should do away with the 2+INT progressions.

They are needlessly punishing, to clerics especially.

Aye, skill point allocations could be addressed by the 'new core rules' - or they may not be, as they decide.

Naturally, GMs and game tables 'round the world will decide house rules as appropriate to their games. :)

I would prefer a more consistent approach to skill points in relation to the 'educated-ness' of a given core class. Prestige classes can suck on the 'skill points relative to BAB/HD/base saving throw goodness' balancing thing as far as I'm concerned however. ^_^

Oh, btw Ineptus, if clerics have to suffer any more on skill points, you're getting your answer on why Drunn Karrd does not have Knowledge (religion) ranks... :P

[Abraham spalding]

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

Clerics deserve all the punishment they get.

All spells known
Cast in armor and with a flipping TOWER SHIELD
D8 HD
Full Caster level
2 good saves
convert spells at will to cures
2 domains and domain abilities

compaired to an arcane caster.... yeah.

However I agree with you on this. 2 +int is just too little when there are way too many skills out there.

A fighter and wizard are well trained classes where I just don't see them fluff wise getting so little skill points.

And Channel Energy (either a damage blast or healing blast) plus more weapon choices.

[Neil Phillips]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

No one with more 10 or more int should have less then 4 skills. PFRPG is worse and more crippling then 3.5 was and that was bad enough.

Also the 2 skills are so arbitrary and random.

Fighter, learned and well trained warrior 2 skills
Barbarian wild untrained savage= 4 skills?
Cleric, well educated and learned servant of the gods=2 skills
Druid, nature and lore based caster= 4 skills
Wizard, book learned, well educated, master of much arcane lore= 2 skills?
Sorcerer, self tault, master of the arcane, 2 skills

now how does any of that make a lick of seance?

There are more points for favored classes

Don't forget, if you are in your favored class you can get another +1 skill point/level. So for human Wizards you can be getting 4 + Int Mod skill points a level. And, comparing to 3.5 may not be fair, as there are less skills. I mean, really, I used to have to dump three points to do what 1 point in Perception does. Same for before acrobatics. Still, if you are a Dwarven Wizard you are kinda shorted skill points.

You may be right!
But I do agree that the base is a little too small. I think the 2+ should be raised to 4+. And, in the case of Wizards, it may be way too few.

Another Idea
It really should be standardized, though, on the number of class skills. Perhaps total number of class skills divided by three, rounded down. This would accomplish each class not becoming a master of all their class skills, yet keep the average amount of ranks spent per class skill across different classes about the same.

Then Rogues have 21 class skills. That would round up to 7 + Int.
For Wizards with 16 class skills this becomes 5 + Int.
For Sorcerer with only 9 class skills, this becomes 3 + Int.
For clerics with 13 class skills, this would be 4 + Int.
For fighters with 10 class skills, this would be 3 + Int.

This would be an ideal situation.

[Alice Margatroid]

Well, besides the fact that they've already said they aren't changing this...

Giving wizards more skill points? They already have Int through the roof. Your average wizard has max ranks in every class skill and then some without even trying. 2+int is crippling for every other class though. Especially if you want to grab some craft/profession/perform... the characterising skills rather than important ones. (Some people may add Knowledge into this category, but my games generally have Knowledge skills being very important and frequently used, because I reward the players for it.)

I think it was in the Book of Experimental Might which suggested you give the players I believe 5 skill points at 1st level (so, 2 or 3 in PFRPG) to put in craft, knowledge, perform and profession to represent their background. I think this would be a really good rule to appropriate, or something similar, as it doesn't interfere with what has been stated will not change and yet lets you spread out your skill points some more. Maybe even 1 bonus skill point a level for these "non-essential" skills...

[seekerofshadowlight]

Alice Margatroid wrote:

I think it was in the Book of Experimental Might which suggested you give the players I believe 5 skill points at 1st level (so, 2 or 3 in PFRPG) to put in craft, knowledge, perform and profession to represent their background. I think this would be a really good rule to appropriate, or something similar, as it doesn't interfere with what has been stated will not change and yet lets you spread out your skill points some more. Maybe even 1 bonus skill point a level for these "non-essential" skills...

The only issue with this is now we are back at the x4 at first level. This is not needed. Simply giving the minimum amount at 4 fixes the issue

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Turin the Mad wrote:

Oh, btw Ineptus, if clerics have to suffer any more on skill points, you're getting your answer on why Drunn Karrd does not have Knowledge (religion) ranks... :P

Hehe, yeah, but you agree clerics suffering would be the last thing you should post as a reason to support your statment, right? :P

[DM_Blake]

Neil Phillips wrote:

Another Idea
It really should be standardized, though, on the number of class skills. Perhaps total number of class skills divided by three, rounded down. This would accomplish each class not becoming a master of all their class skills, yet keep the average amount of ranks spent per class skill across different classes about the same.

Then Rogues have 21 class skills. That would round up to 7 + Int.
For Wizards with 16 class skills this becomes 5 + Int.
For Sorcerer with only 9 class skills, this becomes 3 + Int.
For clerics with 13 class skills, this would be 4 + Int.
For fighters with 10 class skills, this would be 3 + Int.

This would be an ideal situation.

This is a pretty dang good idea.

I second this notion.\

I would third it, if I had another account.

All in favor say Aye!