Imagine taking the bard class as a base
remove all the bard abilities except light armor casting put in the bloodlines
Now you have a medium BAB with Moderated casting special abilities
and the bloodlines become the main aspect of the class
I am not sure i would call this class sorcerer or warlock
but now the claws make sense
Do you think this class would be too powerful ??
I guess it would depend more on what spells or spell-like abilities he gets from the bloodline
Imagine taking the bard class as a base
remove all the bard abilities except light armor casting put in the bloodlinesNow you have a medium BAB with Moderated casting special abilities
and the bloodlines become the main aspect of the classI am not sure i would call this class sorcerer or warlock
but now the claws make senseDo you think this class would be too powerful ??
I guess it would depend more on what spells or spell-like abilities he gets from the bloodline
I dont get it, you're saying take away all the bardic abilities from the bard, and give him claws and you're asking of thats too powerful?
Most people say the bard is already underpowered, how can taking away all the bardic abilites be good?
Imagine taking the bard class as a base
remove all the bard abilities except light armor casting put in the bloodlinesNow you have a medium BAB with Moderated casting special abilities
and the bloodlines become the main aspect of the classI am not sure i would call this class sorcerer or warlock
but now the claws make senseDo you think this class would be too powerful ??
I guess it would depend more on what spells or spell-like abilities he gets from the bloodlineI dont get it, you're saying take away all the bardic abilities from the bard, and give him claws and you're asking of thats too powerful?
Most people say the bard is already underpowered, how can taking away all the bardic abilites be good?
I didn't express myself very well
I'm not talking about redoing the bard i'm talking keeping the bard's BAB progression. i should have said:-use medium BAB Progression
-same saves as the bard
-put in the bloodline powers (same as sorcerer)or augmented
-light armor proficiency
As for spell progression i'm not shure
maybe same as bard but from the sorcerer-wizard spell-list
or remove the spells and add stronger spell-like abilities
the rays could be augmented to 1D6 per 3 levels
Do you think this class (not a prestige class) would be topowerfull?
I wanted to put the focus on bloodlines
I think it is a good basic idea, and not as difficult to pull off as might appear.
In the spoiler tag are the bard variants from the SRD as a basis for comparison:
Bard Variant: Bardic Sage
The bardic sage focuses his efforts on learning, research, and the power of knowledge.
Alignment
The bardic sage must be neutral good, neutral, or neutral evil. The true pursuit of knowledge cares little for ethical extremes. A bardic sage who becomes chaotic or lawful cannot progress in levels as a bardic sage, though he retains all his bardic sage abilities.
Base Save Bonuses
The bardic sage has good will saves, but has poor Fortitude and Reflex saves.
Class Features
The bardic sage has all the standard bard class features, except as noted below.
Spellcasting
A bardic sage learns and casts spells as a normal bard, with a few exceptions. In addition to the normal number of spells known, a bardic sage knows one divination spell of each spell level he is capable of casting. For example, a 1st-level bardic sage knows four 0-level bard spells plus one 0-level bard spell of the divination school (such as detect magic, know direction, or read magic. The bardic sage's number of spells per day does not change.
To learn or cast a spell, a bardic sage must have an Intelligence score (not Charisma score) equal to at least 10 + the spell level. All other spellcasting factors, including bonus spells and save DCs, are still determined using the bardic sage's Charisma score. Add the following spells to the bardic sage's class spell list: 1st—detect chaos/evil/good/law; 2nd—zone of truth; 3rd—arcane sight; 4th—analyze dweomer (lowered from 6th), sending; 5th—contact other plane, greater scrying (lowered from 6th); 6th—true seeing, vision.
Bardic Knowledge
A bardic sage gains a +2 bonus on all bardic knowledge checks.
Bardic Music
A bardic sage's powers of inspiration are not as persistent as those of a traditional bard. His ability to inspire courage, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics lasts only 3 rounds after the ally can no longer hear the bardic sage sing, rather than the normal 5 rounds.
Bard Variant: Divine Bard
Not all bards are arcanists; some derive their special powers from a divine tradition. In many primitive cultures, the divine bard takes the place of the cleric or the adept as the guide of the people's religious beliefs.
Class Features
The divine bard has all the standard bard class features, except as noted below.
Spellcasting
A divine bard learns and casts spells as a normal bard, with some minor exceptions. A divine bard's spells are divine spells, not arcane spells.
To learn or cast a spell, a divine bard must have a Wisdom score (not Charisma score) equal to at least 10 + the spell level. All other Spellcasting factors, including bonus spells and save DCs, are still determined using the divine bard's Charisma score.
Like druids, paladins, and rangers, divine bards need not designate a specific deity as the source of their spells. However, a divine bard can't cast spells of an alignment that doesn't match his. Thus, divine bards cannot cast lawful spells (since bards can't be lawful). Neutral divine bards can't cast any spells associated with an alignment (and are thus relatively rare).
Add the following spells to the divine bard's class spell list: 0—create water, cure minor wounds; 1st—detect evil/good/law, protection from evil/good/law; 2nd—consecrate, desecrate, gentle repose; 3rd—magic circle against evil/good/law, prayer; 4th—remove disease, speak with dead, sending; 5th—divination, restoration; 6th—commune, hallow, unhallow, raise dead.
Bard Variant: Savage Bard
The savage bard is a warrior at heart, though his arcane powers strike fear into the enemies of his tribe. Savage bards often multi-class as barbarians to improve their combat prowess.
Alignment
A savage bard must be chaotic in alignment. A savage bard who becomes nonchaotic cannot progress in levels as a bard, though he retains all his bard abilities.
Base Save Bonuses
A savage bard has good Fortitude and Will saves, but has poor Reflex saves.
Class Skills
A savage bard loses Decipher Script and Speak Language as class skills. He adds Survival to his list of class skills.
Class Features
The savage bard has all the standard bard class features, except as noted below.
Illiteracy
A savage bard is illiterate, just as a barbarian is. An illiterate savage bard cannot use or scribe scrolls.
Spellcasting
Remove the following spells from the savage bard's class spell list: calm emotions, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, erase, prestidigitation, read magic, sepia snake sigil, summon monster (I through VI).
Add the following spells to the savage bard's class spell list: 1st—calm animals, detect snares and pits, endure elements, summon nature's ally I; 2nd—bull's strength, pass without trace, summon nature's ally II; 3rd—snare, summon nature's ally III; 4th—insect plague, summon nature's ally IV; 5th—commune with nature, summon nature's ally V; 6th—creeping doom, reincarnate, summon nature's ally VI.
Taliesin Hoyle" I think it is a good basic idea, and not as difficult to pull off as might appear.
In the spoiler tag are the bard variants from the SRD as a basis for comparison:
good spoiler thanks
i was talking about making a new arcane class focused on bloodlines
i would like some ideas on that since i will probably try it out
I' dont think we need a new arcane class, and sorcerors already have bloodlines, can't you use magical means to boost the low BAB of the sorc into something acceptable?
Going DD does pretty good with that.
can't you use magical means to boost the low BAB of the sorc into something acceptable?
You got the rigth word "ACCEPTABLE" to me it is not
it is not acceptable that you have to multiclass or choose a prestige class to benefit from your class ablilitiesbut anyways this post is about do you think it would be to powerfull
or can it be balanced i want to build a sorcerer class focused on bloodlines for my own satisfaction i was asking sage advice
maybe i didn't find the rigth place to post this
So basically what I think you're saying is that, while the Pathfinder sorcerer is cool, the demon-blooded variant with the claws is sub-optimal because its a caster and not a hand-to-hand fighter.
If you wanted to make it a hand-to-hand fighter to get better use from the claws, what I'd do is pimp the monk instead, so you'd have "Born Under the Sign of the Cat" (with kitty claws), "Born Under the Sign of the Mongoose" with sharp teeth and bouncy fighting, and "Born Under the Sign of the Fruitbat" for wing-buffeting fighting style, sonic squeaks, and some high level fighting attack called "Devour the Overripe Mango."
Or something like that.
My point is that the sorcerer bloodlines seem balanced for sorcerer powers, or perhaps multiclassing, and making a non-caster or less caster variant basically strips them of what makes them magical.
most of the bloodlines are balanced?
some gives claw attacks others boost strength
but your AC and BAB stays the same
the way they are they could be offered to any class
in place of a feat and it would not change much of the game
a cute flavor for any class but not very usefull
most of the abilities they give you you can do better with spells
since you have so many spells after 5th level
so they do not fill there purpose witch is to make the sorcerer different from the wizard
I dont see how a ray that can do only 1D6+10 at level 20 is balanced
but yes they do look cool at first and second level