Well I'm half way through RotRL and am now looking ahead to which AP I'll run next, so...
1, Would you give SD the thumbs up or is it pants?
and
2, Is CotCT any better?
Well I'm half way through RotRL and am now looking ahead to which AP I'll run next, so...
1, Would you give SD the thumbs up or is it pants?
and
2, Is CotCT any better?
Currently I'm running SD, but I have to say just by reading both get major thumbs up. The big question you have to ask yourself is "Can my players pretend to forget Drow exist and then act shocked when they do exist?" if the answer is no, then I'd go with CotCT. Also CotCT plays better with the harrow deck so that is a deciding factor in my opinion.
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I would say SD. My main concern is that it will be hard for players to forget that Drow exist. They have such a legacy in the game and it will be hard for players to do that. Beyond the drow, I think Second Darkness is a very cool AP. It needs a bit of a polish here and there, but it is a good read. People have talked about spell issues and statblocks being a little off, but I am converting to PFRPG so it doesnt bother me.
To each their own, but I would say SD.
There was a thread commenting that Second Darkness is easier than previous adventure paths, so that may make it more or less attractive in your eyes.
I'm in the middle of running Curse of the Crimson Throne, which I recommend highly, and have read all of Second Darkness. Perhaps it plays better than it reads, but I think that Second Darkness is the weakest of the three APs so far. There's timing issues in several modules, and A Memory of Darkness especially feels quite rushed. I did really like Descent into Midnight, though, enough to contemplate tackling my issues with the previous installments and run Second Darkness after I'm done with Crimson Throne.
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I'm in the middle of running Curse of the Crimson Throne, which I recommend highly, and have read all of Second Darkness. Perhaps it plays better than it reads, but I think that Second Darkness is the weakest of the three APs so far. There's timing issues in several modules, and A Memory of Darkness especially feels quite rushed. I did really like Descent into Midnight, though, enough to contemplate tackling my issues with the previous installments and run Second Darkness after I'm done with Crimson Throne.
I must say it does have its issues, but it is well worth running. The issues arent that large. It most defineatly plays better than it reads.
Also a side note. If you do deide to run SD then you will need to come up with some supplemental material to cover some level gappage as covered here on the boards in a post about missing 6th level. Essentially you either A) have to come up with a full level of xp to cover or B) hand waive and give them a free level. It's one of the more comtroversialthings they tried out with SD as an AP and it got mixed reviews (AS did Set Pieces another of the things you have to decide if you like and can deal with) between those two things (Which are minor in my opinion but can sway choice) it really can be the deciding factor between the two aps if anything, and you should be aware of them when deciding which to run.
I'm playing CotCT now and it's going well. There's been complaints that it leaves the city when the PCs really want to stay and that the ending adventures are a bit too much dungeon-crawling. I haven't gotten to those issues yet but don't see them as a problem.
SD is a very cool idea but reading through it I see some potential problems. In the first adventure, the PCs are expected to work for a guy who betrays them. There's a lot of betrayal throughout. There's seem pretty hard railroads to start the middle adventures. The reason for the PCs to do some of the missions seems weak. If you've got roleplay-heavy players, this AP will need tweaking.
I've been holding this little bit of bile back for a while now...so look away if you don't want to see it spew: If players cannot be surprised that the drow exist, then they need to learn how to role-play. As an exercise, take a standard race of your choice, run a campaign, story arc, or adventure in which for most of the time, they are in a relatively homogeneous racial setting that doesn't believe in humans/elves/dwarves/what have you, then introduce them to this race. If it helps, make the race sharper, more distinctive, perhaps a little off expectations. I've done this with elves, and it helped as GM to nudge the characters from time-to-time, in a way that fit with the situation, into reflecting on their character's reaction to these strange beings from out of myth and fairy tales. They would then have their characters act accordingly, and they owned the premise more and more without overt GM help.
I don't think that SD is the weakest of the three APs. In fact, I would consider it a LOT stronger than Rise of the Runelords, and about on par with CoCT. The only difference between the latter, imho, is in what your group wants to play:
- Do you want to focus on intrigue and lots of social RP? Then you'd be better off running CoCt.
- If (like my group) you want to take a break from that kind of thing, then SD is for you. That doesn't mean it's a shallow hack'n'slay, though: It's got epic plotlines, vivid imagery, and memorable baddies/npcs. Sure, it has some issues, too, but these are easily fixed (see the SD boards for that; there's lots of good DM advice to help you over any hurdles you might encounter).
Also, it doesn't matter one bit if your players have encountered millions of drow before. If theiy can roleplay their characters as 'shocked', nothing more is needed. Paizo has done all the work for you and made the Drow different enough to keep even the most knowledgeable players guessing.
[/leaves soapbox] ;)
The more I think about it, isn't the very existence of the drow part of the draw, the motivation, the hook for the AP? I mean, if I discovered there really were faeries living in the woods behind my house, I might be pretty tempted to chuck posting and dissertating and run around in the woods just b/c, demmit, there's faeries! What are they up to? Does it strike anyone else this way?
I guess my main issue with CotCT is that I'm not all that keen on Urban adventures. I think that as a DM, I need to run more Urban material so I can improve my social DMing skills. I come from a tactical board-based wargame background and I admit that I still shy away a little from the full-on roleplay stuff. Im ok with it but just not all that confident.
The other option is Legacy of Fire, but it ends too low a level to be a full AP, imo. Plus I don't have the advantage of having the whole thing to start with so it would feel like a gamble.
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This is based on just reading through and not playing either AP.
SD is good but not nearly as Darklands as one might hope... The second adventure (Children of the Void) is my favorite singe adventure of the currently 18 published.
CotCT is my favorite AP so far. The second adventure (Seven Days to the Grave) is my second favorite single adventure out of all of them. That said, the path does feel to meander a bit in second third.
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I am running both SD and CotCT.
I love them both. I do not think it is a problem having the players forget about Drow. I didn't mention it until they met the first one and then explained that in Golarian Drow are a myth and not widely known and then played out any reactions when they told others.
CotCT is also a lot of fun and I would be hard pressed to choose between them.
I've run RotRL, played CotCT, and just started running 2D.
All three start en media res, which can be a great mechanism for otherwise uncooperative players. The second two add character traits, which help push players to begin the game with something in common/ some motivation that helps to initially connect PC's to the AP.
Perhaps CotCT was the best of the three because part of this connection was a common goal to confront a minor evil boss, which then connects easier to the rest of the AP. In RotRL and 2D, true, the PC's all start at ground zero of the first encounter, but nothing else pushes the PC's to react. They can choose to let others handle it. (This would make the creatures suddenly targeting the PC's a desperate action to get them involved.)
In 2D, only one PC accepted the offer, and then only because the character trait of "looking for work at the GG" was taken. I'm having to invest considerable more time to get the rest of the PC's reconnected to the path, and I may end up scratching out the boneyard encounter, or more. So far, if I can't seem to get the PC's back despite my tricks, I'll just chalk this up to being an AP my player just doesn't really care for, which is fine. The nature of these AP's are bound to have something sooner or later that just doesn't work out, so then I'll just look forward to the other AP later on.
I found the Set Piece to be a good game-saver when my PC's decided not to take the primary, initial hook at the GG encounter. The gambling scenario was very irritating when playing with just one player, so I went right into the action a.s.a.p. Without that set piece as a quick back-up, the session would have completely disintegrated.
This is one reason why I also believe it's important that discussion should take place in a group to see if there's interest in playing before getting the whole AP.
I'm in the middle of running Curse of the Crimson Throne, which I recommend highly, and have read all of Second Darkness. Perhaps it plays better than it reads, but I think that Second Darkness is the weakest of the three APs so far. There's timing issues in several modules, and A Memory of Darkness especially feels quite rushed.
Agreed. I definitely think Crimson Throne is the better of the two options you're looking at.
The first one you can yoink a setting, a business, a side trek and a chase scene. The second one has a good rescue mission and some good use of a new monster. Those two are worth purchasing. The third one... has a railroad hook at the end that you'll really need to fix. The fourth one you can yoink a new form of villainy: flesh-crafting. The fifth one is just... well, the villains either sulk or remain trapped in their lair. It's just a badly designed "mystery" topped by a final encounter with way too many moving pieces and way too likely to leave the DM playing 10-15 NPCs in a final battle, all above CR 8 and some much higher than that. The last one you can yoink a number of high level encounters. Other people who cared about the plot after the second adventure are more excited about it than I have been. All I see are parts, useable parts
I've really been disappointed in this AP as a whole. It doesn't hang together and there's no NPC you make a connection with and no NPC you really hate or pity. It's a far cry from Runelords and Curse, I can tell you. It really feels like with the game system, the mini-adventures, and all the other stuff that the AP just didn't quite get the loving attention it needed. And it pains me to say that. Hopefully the next one will be better.
YMMV.
SD is the weakest AP so far. Too much railroading, too weak encounters, unsatisfying smaller adventures that leave you short on XP. Enemies are dumber than ever and the fact that they are just doing whatever the plot demands from them, as opposed to things that make sense, is hard to conceal from players in the first and third adventures. Riddleport as a whole makes no sense whatsoever and this also cannot be hidden from players, unless you rewrite the whole city. Also, the usual problems, such as NPCs scaling to the party's level, no matter their personality and setting role, remain in full strength.
In short, use CoCT.
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SD has a few problems. From smallest to biggest, these are:
1. Set pieces. Well, set pieces are like wizards/clerics. They want to be both standalone adventures and part of the AP at once. And like with multiclass casters, trying to be both means you fail (fael ?) at both. Working SP into the main adventure usually requires some work, and extra work isn't exactly what I want to do with a module.
Secondly, the ST quality varies, from good (3,4) to *ahem what were they thinking* in 1 and 2. However since half the AP happens in Underda...rklands, it's not that a biggie - easy enough to work in something cool and fitting, esp with the Darklands book and the plethora of Underdark material available.
2. The enemy. RoRTL had a classic mwahahaha evil archmage which was so bloody cliche that it actually worked ! Plus, you didn't get to know him until the last 1/3 of the AP, which helped greatly.
CoCT had her. She was awesome. An absolutely scumbag villain who just sits her, waves her silk handkerchief, kills thousands and there ain't a thing you can do about her. Invulnerable villains can be a train wreck, but Paizo pulled Ileosa so masterfully that it's truly remarkable.
Now, SD. Ze drov ! OK, let's assume they weren't done to death and we can actually do a "*GASP*, an evil elf !" suspension of disbelief. Fine. But Allevrah and her countless red shirt lieutenants just all tend to blend together.
Mokmurian, Arkonas, goblins, Lady Andaisin, the Scarwall crew, Grauls.... RotRL and CotCT mid-bosses were shining examples of development, while the SD ones just ... don't grip me. And villains should grip the players and make them feel personal about kicking their butt, even if that personal is just "kill, loot, ding".
The whole falling star apocalypse was a letdown as well. There's a book by Malhavoc "When the Sky Falls" that goes in great length about how to run an end of the world scenario. I'm going to use just that and make sure the whole thing feels intense enough to spur the PCs into rapid action.
3. A Memory of Darkness. AAAARGH ! The WORST PF module ever. It's a giant railroad set, kicking off with the players getting betrayed by their apparently only ally and forced into some choo choo train of an intrigue which they can't really break off from and have to play along.
And then they hit the Winter Council, who are basically a bunch of douchebags who sit around and pick their noses. And whoever ordered the art for Hialin ... how am I supposed to show him to players ? He should have a "I'm a very bad person !" t-shirt, because it's not really obvious from the artwork. (SARCASM MODE OFF)
And on the top of that, in the end you get a massive highish level combat with dozens of statblocks that have to be handled by the GM, some of them casters. Ever tried that ? I did, and it's no fun !
Basically, I am going to scrap this module, come up with some design of my own, make the Winter Council a bunch of secretive paranoid power hungry freaks they should have been, and run my PCs thru a deathmaze of traps and elven assassins. Except, I am no longer a college student and setting that up will take a month or two. Grrr.
JD Wiker is a great designer (he wrote, of all things, the SW SAGA !) but please, leave the adventure design in hands of tried and true veterans like Wolfgang, Nic, Richard, Steve and James.
Ok! So not one vote for SD being better than CotCT! Some 50:50's but just as many SD sucks in a number of places.
Thank you all for your comments. I'll take a looksee at LoF part 1 and 2, and if they don't look really good, its going to be CotCT for my group!
I would say SD. My main concern is that it will be hard for players to forget that Drow exist. They have such a legacy in the game and it will be hard for players to do that. Beyond the drow, I think Second Darkness is a very cool AP. It needs a bit of a polish here and there, but it is a good read. People have talked about spell issues and statblocks being a little off, but I am converting to PFRPG so it doesnt bother me.
To each their own, but I would say SD.
A while back, there were a number of excellent conversions from 3.5 to PF Beta (can't remember who did 'em at the moment, though; it'll come to me) for the various critters and NPCs for SD. You spoke of doing some conversions yourself; have you done so by this point, have you converted them again to the "official" PF rules, and most importantly, might we all peek at them? ;)
LB
Ok! So not one vote for SD being better than CotCT! Some 50:50's but just as many SD sucks in a number of places.
Thank you all for your comments. I'll take a looksee at LoF part 1 and 2, and if they don't look really good, its going to be CotCT for my group!
If you are considering second darkness and legacy of fire choose legacy of fire. I am a player in both right now. Legacy of fire is a little railroady but fun. Each week I think about quitting second darkness except that is the only time I get to see a good friend of mine. We're through either 3 or 4 books of SD and it is is just one big trainride where there is no incentive except that you have to follow the storyline or you're no longer playing the AP.
If you are considering second darkness and legacy of fire choose legacy of fire. I am a player in both right now. Legacy of fire is a little railroady but fun. Each week I think about quitting second darkness except that is the only time I get to see a good friend of mine. We're through either 3 or 4 books of SD and it is is just one big trainride where there is no incentive except that you have to follow the storyline or you're no longer playing the AP.Ok! So not one vote for SD being better than CotCT! Some 50:50's but just as many SD sucks in a number of places.
Thank you all for your comments. I'll take a looksee at LoF part 1 and 2, and if they don't look really good, its going to be CotCT for my group!
Good necromancy, but, I think he may have made his decision between now and a year ago when this thread ran its course.
Though, this is a good opportunity to let others know how 2D is. It's not a module like CotCT that you can lay out and play as is. It needs love; a lot of love. NPCs have to be added, made memorable, turned into interesting allies, and then the module rips you away from Riddleport and you have to do it again in Echo, and then again in Descent and then again in Memory and then not at all in Endless. This is not the module for people who like to have constant interesting social NPCs.
In addition to that, the villains are hardly memorable. Having them all be chaotic evil and kill-on-sight and hidden deep in the Darklands means that the primary method the module uses to communicate with the PCs is via journal, so the PCs stumble into three final encounters, ruthlessly murder the villain and then realize they were important once they read through their stuff. That's just poor in comparison to the Runelord's pals who are constantly in the spotlight and being ridiculously campy villains who engage the PCs in crazy dialogue like Nualia and Tsuto, Jolistina, the Skinsaw man, the Arkona family, Mokmurian, Queen Illeosa, the Graul family, etcetera.
Just saying, if you plan on running 2D, make it super crazy interesting.
If you are considering second darkness and legacy of fire choose legacy of fire. I am a player in both right now. Legacy of fire is a little railroady but fun. Each week I think about quitting second darkness except that is the only time I get to see a good friend of mine. We're through either 3 or 4 books of SD and it is is just one big trainride where there is no incentive except that you have to follow the storyline or you're no longer playing the AP.Ok! So not one vote for SD being better than CotCT! Some 50:50's but just as many SD sucks in a number of places.
Thank you all for your comments. I'll take a looksee at LoF part 1 and 2, and if they don't look really good, its going to be CotCT for my group!
Good necromancy, but, I think he may have made his decision between now and a year ago when this thread ran its course.
Though, this is a good opportunity to let others know how 2D is. It's not a module like CotCT that you can lay out and play as is. It needs love; a lot of love. NPCs have to be added, made memorable, turned into interesting allies, and then the module rips you away from Riddleport and you have to do it again in Echo, and then again in Descent and then again in Memory and then not at all in Endless. This is not the module for people who like to have constant interesting social NPCs.
In addition to that, the villains are hardly memorable. Having them all be chaotic evil and kill-on-sight and hidden deep in the Darklands means that the primary method the module uses to communicate with the PCs is via journal, so the PCs stumble into three final encounters, ruthlessly murder the villain and then realize they were important once they read through their stuff. That's just poor in comparison to the Runelord's pals who are constantly in the spotlight and being ridiculously campy villains who engage the PCs in crazy dialogue like Nualia and Tsuto, Jolistina, the Skinsaw man, the Arkona family, Mokmurian,...
Hah didn't look at how long ago that was posted. I was myself looking for some ratings on second darkness to see if I thought it would be worth playing through the rest of the AP or if I should just start a different campaign. I would hate for someone to choose this over legacy of fire.. so much better..
Well, to each his own. While I loved the production values of LoF, its story didn't grip me past the first adventure. While it doesn't suffer from any inherent design flaws such as SD does when ripping the players away from their established base in Riddleport, I think it would still need a lot of work to make me want to play or GM it. I've gone and done the work on Second Darkness instead. If you are able to look past the immediate problems, there are some gems hidden in this AP that well warrant a playthrough. As for the villains 'not being memorable enough' - if you feel like that, it's actually easy to make them memorable and distinctive, because the AP provides all the necessary background. That, then, would be the GM's job.
In this thread, there are a plethora of excellent ideas to help you do just that. I recommend it to anyone who is planning on GM'ing Second Darkness, as it points out several of the problems inherent in this AP and how to circumvent them.
As for the villains 'not being memorable enough' - if you feel like that, it's actually easy to make them memorable and distinctive, because the AP provides all the necessary background. That, then, would be the GM's job.
Totally agreed. I'm just saying it's not something that you can open up and play; it needs the GM to make the adventure personal and to make the villains memorable, because otherwise it's just a string of "Remember that drow that we busted in on just after the completion or near-completion of their plans? ... No, me either"s until Descent. In Descent, the bad guys pick up all of the lost flavor and interest they lacked in Shadow to Echo.
Great link, btw. It'll help out when I run this myself.
... In this thread, there are a plethora of excellent ideas to help you do just that. I recommend it to anyone who is planning on GM'ing Second Darkness, as it points out several of the problems inherent in this AP and how to circumvent them.
Dance of Ruin, I could kiss you! I'm just finishing up Shackled City and starting to prep SD, and this thread is absolutely PERFECT.
I have no problem fleshing out an AP, even to the extent of adding a "missing level". It helps customize the adventure for my party's preferences and play style. That said, the help of other GM's who have run before is invaluable. Paizo has the tendency to explain and justify a plot to the GM, but that information doesn't get to the players and it thereby looks like railroading. A bit of concrete player-oriented disclosure is really useful, and GM customization of the AP is the way to get it done. It's nice to have a solid published adventure to run, but also great to be able to exercise some creative chops, too. Why should the Paizo contributors have all the fun?
I like parts of SD, and I use the gambling rules from SITS in my other two PF campaigns.
And with Shalelu as part of both ROTR and SD, and one of the characters having the trait from Celwynvian, I'm going to use Armageddon Echo as a side trek after Skinsaw. (I'm using slow XP progression, so the heroes have need of extra XP).
But overall, the AP is a bit rushed at points and is a bit railroading. But there are some great set pieces to use in other ways.
... In this thread, there are a plethora of excellent ideas to help you do just that. I recommend it to anyone who is planning on GM'ing Second Darkness, as it points out several of the problems inherent in this AP and how to circumvent them.Dance of Ruin, I could kiss you! I'm just finishing up Shackled City and starting to prep SD, and this thread is absolutely PERFECT.
You're welcome, although my SO would probably object to the kissing ;). Anyway, I think it's times like these when the boards are at their best - just fellow GMs and players helping each other out with ideas and input.
Dear me, I said 'could,' not 'would!' I'm not that kind of a DM! ;)
Seriously, you're right - collaboration can be invaluable and we're lucky to have the Intarwebz for it. Shackled City DM's put together the site RPGenius where they post custom stuff, side treks, RP ideas, etc. There's a placeholder on the front page for Second Darkness, but nothing there yet. DM's who have custom pieces written up for SD might want to post them there?!?! It's also a useful place for conversion - for example, conversion of monsters from 3.5 to Pathfinder or 4E.
Just a thought.
Treppa
That's a rather generic complaint. I noticed you were also not fond of the Recorporeal Incarnation spell and the adventure that followed. Did you run the adventure strictly as written? If not, what did you modify? If yes, why didn't you?
Providing such information might help prospective SD GMs to judge if this is an adventure path they might make work or not.
Please note I am not trying to 'defend' the AP or anything. I was among the first to note that it has definite flaws. But I also think that this thread gives off the wrong impression if everyone just posts 'this was horrible'. The whys and hows are what matters, because then every reader can make an informed judgement.
Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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Lots of ideas. Mostly for the Memory of Darkness.
Well, one point i'm going to change is that the Winter council is lot more aggressive, except Perelir, who sides with PC. Arlindil believes that what they do is right, and stands behind his old ways. Hialin-I like Hialin, so he will remain same, but more aggressive. Malindil is 100% loyal to council, and will aggressively attack anybody who hurts Arlindil.
So, when the Spike is taken off, Arlindil roars of fury to the Hialin and attacks, for "revealing the secret to the outsiders." Malindil orders to the defense. If PC:s help Arlindil to kill Hialin, druid sees hes opportunity and try to kill one of the PC:s. If my players slay druid, Malindil attacks in great fury against the killer of Arlindil, either it is the PC:s or the Hialin.
About the Nalflhesnee(?) and succubus-quilindra, I'm not sure. I think the version of the book would be good, but would that bring too much chaos in the tower?
I'm running it as written, but the player characters are all special agents working for the Winter Council. We're just starting chapter three and so far they're having a great time.
I am running this adventure path right now and I was a little worried about coming to this book of the adventure path because of the reviews that I had read. After taking my players through this a couple of weeks ago I must say it went off flawlessly. I think a very important part of this module came when the pc's had their first meeting with the Queen. I was sure to tell my players about her "apparent" lack of interest in what the pc's had to say when her advisers were looking, and her sudden interest when they weren't looking.
I think it depends on what kind of players you have at the table on whether your players will like this module or not. If you have the kind of players who do not mind a little rail-roading and who do not ask a lot of questions then they should enjoy it. I have a group of experienced players who are content to go with the story line as long as they are enjoying themselves. Myself, I like this adventure path, as well as "memory of Darkness". But I can understand where some people are coming from who have had problems with this.
Am still running RotRL (currently in the 5th adventure) but am looking ahead and wondering which path to go with next.
Am really liking how the first two adventures in SD read. The 2nd Adventure is probably my favourite out of all of the Pathfinder modules thus far but like many other people I am worried about the flow of the adventure after this one, especially after the PCs get to know Riddleport, experiencing and investigating the meteorite crash, gaining rare starmetals and combating cool alien creatures. Then it takes the PCs away from the region and the feel of the campaign definately seems to change, and not for the better.
Am still running RotRL (currently in the 5th adventure) but am looking ahead and wondering which path to go with next.
Am really liking how the first two adventures in SD read. The 2nd Adventure is probably my favourite out of all of the Pathfinder modules thus far but like many other people I am worried about the flow of the adventure after this one, especially after the PCs get to know Riddleport, experiencing and investigating the meteorite crash, gaining rare starmetals and combating cool alien creatures. Then it takes the PCs away from the region and the feel of the campaign definately seems to change, and not for the better.
As I've hinted at before, from reading through this AP, it looks more and more like a good source material for Elves and Drow, and a nice series of side treks for other adventures:
Need a low level city adventure: Shadow in the Sky
Want to give your characters a nice island terror side trek: Children of the Void (some good, long term ideas there too)
Players interested in Mierani Forest and Celwynvian or just cool historical adventure(espeically with the Meirani forest Trait): Armageddon Echo (That's the one I'm running as a side trek in ROTR...)
Got Drow: Endless Night
Want to go to Kyonin and deal with Treerazer: Memory of Darkness
But as a long campaign I think it needs too much work.
(And my 2nd level ROTR characters are itching to go after Treerazer in a few years...)
Am still running RotRL (currently in the 5th adventure) but am looking ahead and wondering which path to go with next.
Am really liking how the first two adventures in SD read. The 2nd Adventure is probably my favourite out of all of the Pathfinder modules thus far but like many other people I am worried about the flow of the adventure after this one, especially after the PCs get to know Riddleport, experiencing and investigating the meteorite crash, gaining rare starmetals and combating cool alien creatures. Then it takes the PCs away from the region and the feel of the campaign definately seems to change, and not for the better.
Getting away from Riddleport has been a problem for a lot of players, especially after they acquire ownership of the Golden Goblin. My players had all sorts of plans for the inn, hiring body guards and staff to man the place etc. etc. I think the town is a good setting for an adventure path on its own. My players still mentioned going back there until they realized a mod or two later that they were not going back anytime soon.
As for the rest of the adventure path, my players have enjoyed the hell out of it. If you have read it you will see that there is some pretty cool twists that happen later on. Like I said earlier though, it all depends on what kind of players you have as some people will not be happy with leaving the city.
One quick & dirty fix that will save you a lot of trouble:
Steal away! This idea could be developed even further. I'm currently planning on
Steal away! This idea could be developed even further. I'm currently planning on
** spoiler omitted **
So are you planning on running:
1) The Celwynvian module? If so, how does the party get to Zirnakayan? Gate or travel/delve?
2) After the incursion, do you still plan to have the target be Kyonin?
So are you planning on running: (...)
1) The party completes Children of the Void, then goes on to Celvynvian.
2) Celvynvian as written, with some slight modifications (making the elves look less stupid); the final confrontation with drow reveals existence of Zirnakayin below Riddleport.
3) I'll probably lose all the recorporeal incarnation stuff, and have the players find their way down by themselves. I'll probably use some of the more world-neutral Dungeon Magazine adventures for that (e.g., The Chasm Bridge). The players then must infiltrate drow society - as themselves. How exactly this will work, I don't know yet, but probably they'll have to masquerade as human slaves and be extra extra EXTRA careful how they behave ;).
4) (tbd)
5) The final goal of the drow will be to activate the Cyphergate, which will serve as a focus or targetting device for calling down the Second Darkness upon Kyonin.
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Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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So are you planning on running: (...)** spoiler omitted **
If i can ask,
2.Is Allevrah still the leader of the drows?
3.What the PC:s can do in the city? What they can do except attavk the Allevrah?
I'm very intriqued of making this path like this, because I really dont like the two last books. Boring-hack'n'Slash.
So are you planning on running: (...)** spoiler omitted **
OK, so you're abolishing the mechanism that requires
Aren't spoilers annoying? :)
Rosgakori and Treppa:
@ 1. I'm thinking of overt warfare in the streets. I want the PCs to come back to RP only to find it in shambles. The athmosphere I'll be going for there is like in that movie, Black Hawk Down.
@ 2. Yes, she is. However, I'm not yet sure where I'll place her - probably not in RP itself, but rather in some aboleth-y, below-the-waves hideout where she discovered the glyphs in the first place.
Treppa, you hit the nail on the head there. I always found the limitation you mentioned quite unnecessary. Also, the last adventure in the AP has some good imagery (the Moldering Emperor, for example), and I don't want to rewrite more than necessary.
@ 3. I'll probably set the AP on a timer then and there. The PCs can interrupt the ritual in RP by defeating the drow that are involved with the Cyphergate itself, only to find out that Allevrah is just missing a tiny piece of the puzzle and will probably be able to complete the spell on her own within a few days' time. Or something like that, no rest for the weary (PCs) ;).
Bear in mind that I've only run the first volume of the AP so far, so all that's subject to further tinkering. Maybe I'll get around to posting short session logs one of these days.