Firstly, this thread is hopefully a think tank for an adventure path that would follow Savage Tide in the in-gameworld timeline of the Dungeon Greyhawk setting.
If this thread should be moved to the standard 3.5 section, please do so.
Basically, as I was looking over products, release dates, and the content of said products, I noticed a trend. Dragon related stuff. Me, I love my dragons, so I didn't mind. I know others are less enthused by a plethora of draconic marketing, but thats besides the point.
As my current gaming group is actually moving through the entire Dungeon APs sequentially (we are in Age of Worms now), it struck me that a 4th adventure path using all this material (I am also counting D&D Minis in this regard) could be quite interesting.
So even as I DM Age of Worms, I am doing some very basic groundwork for a 4th AP. Anyone who wants to assist is more than welcome, as I respect the individual and combined talents of these boards.
So far, I have the following:
The Dragonfall war between Bahamut and Tiamat coming to a head. Previous AP event with some relation: the destruction of Dragotha. Conversely, Illthane's experiments could have been a pioneering prelude to the Dragonspawn. (In my current age of worms, I am replacing Illthane's draconic kobolds with Greenspawn Sneaks, even if recolored as black dragonspawn)
Dragonborn appearing in greater numbers. (A PC in Age of Worms may soon become dragonborn, and will be one of the "first".)
Spawn of Tiamat appearing in greater numbers. See Illthane comments.
Of particular note, I am interested in making use of some of the less known/used dragons/dragon lore. Particularily:
Saridor and the Gem Dragons, including the Obsidian Dragons.
The slain sister-dragon to Bahamut.
The ferrous dragons.
As I develop more, I will post it. For now, I would love to see what other ideas this generates in the minds of those who read it. Thanks to you all for taking the time to peruse this, and thanks twice if you take the time to post!
You could also introduce over the course of this AP the conflicts between Tiamat and her mutant spawn and devilish allies against the Chaotic Evil demon lords of similar interests - you will see tons of this stuff in Savage Tide, as the third AP - with daemons (yugoloths) in the middle.
None of that counts various conflicts with cultists of many stripes - perhaps your 4th AP has to deal with the Cult of the Hopping Prophet and their horrid scheme implanting slaad eggs into unhatched dragons, creating slaad-inspired dracospawn -, black knights (who have draconic templates, dragonblooded feats) trampling them under early on - say, the 'second death knight', making his demon-warped death knightly wrath felt upon the world.
Perhaps this "Death Knight #2" is a motivating factor for your PCs, razing their parents/preceeding characters/uncles/hatcheries/lab vats and massacring dozens or hundreds with a horde of slaad-infested dracospawn, taunting the puny adolescent characters with having easily dispatched the previous characters.
(And with trickery elements being so available from all sides in this AP, and all but unbeatable to 1st level characters, perhaps Malcanthet &/or Iggwilv are to blame for the TRUTH of it all, having nuked the ancestor-characters with an Epic Mass No-Save Imprisonment to kick start the whippersnappers into gear, releasing them at a later point in the storyline to free up those magical resources.)
You could use the Red Hand of Doom as part of your campaign arc. It features Tiamat as the BBEG. (Also, spectacularly done by James Jacobs and Richard Baker!)
Just a thought!
-c
Cult of the Hopping Prophet and their horrid scheme implanting slaad eggs into unhatched dragons, creating slaad-inspired dracospawnOoooh, that's a good 'un!
Glad you like it Sir carborundum - it will be interesting indeed to see who makes use of it. :) (If any one...)
It had been my observation that the first 3 APs all deal heavily with Demons, or at least with Demon-Related themes. Shackled City had Adimarchus and Occipitus, Age of Worms had them as part of the background as the opponents of the Wind Dukes, and Savage Tide was made out of demons. Don't get me wrong, I love those APs, especially Savage Tide, but where are the devils in all of this? To the best of my ability, I recall one devil hit squad in Age of Worms after you get a peice of the Rod of Seven Parts. There might be a few others, but they sure don't spring to mind.
So I'd like to bring Devils, and possibly the Yugoloths, to the front in this AP. Tiamat being affiliated with them helps, and I can see Abishai making a great appearance as a bridge between the two. Personally, if I were Tiamat, and in the last 50 years I just saw the end of the Prince of Demons, the death of a Chaotic Evil god of corruption, the destruction of the upstart Dragotha, and the resurfacing of the Rod of Law, I'd take it as a sign that it's time to put all those plans in motion. Cosmically, Law is at an apex, and with Tiamat not needing to worry about the little Chaotic details, she can focus entirely on her main foe: Bahamut.
Nevertheless, I had always wished for slaad to make more appearances than just random encounters, so your idea is great Turin! Just because Tiamat isn't worrying about the Chaotic elements anymore doesn't mean they arent still there!
It had been my observation that the first 3 APs all deal heavily with Demons, or at least with Demon-Related themes. Shackled City had Adimarchus and Occipitus, Age of Worms had them as part of the background as the opponents of the Wind Dukes, and Savage Tide was made out of demons. Don't get me wrong, I love those APs, especially Savage Tide, but where are the devils in all of this? To the best of my ability, I recall one devil hit squad in Age of Worms after you get a peice of the Rod of Seven Parts. There might be a few others, but they sure don't spring to mind.
So I'd like to bring Devils, and possibly the Yugoloths, to the front in this AP. Tiamat being affiliated with them helps, and I can see Abishai making a great appearance as a bridge between the two. Personally, if I were Tiamat, and in the last 50 years I just saw the end of the Prince of Demons, the death of a Chaotic Evil god of corruption, the destruction of the upstart Dragotha, and the resurfacing of the Rod of Law, I'd take it as a sign that it's time to put all those plans in motion. Cosmically, Law is at an apex, and with Tiamat not needing to worry about the little Chaotic details, she can focus entirely on her main foe: Bahamut.
Nevertheless, I had always wished for slaad to make more appearances than just random encounters, so your idea is great Turin! Just because Tiamat isn't worrying about the Chaotic elements anymore doesn't mean they arent still there!
And slaad cultists infesting "her" spawn with their own eggs, "perverting" her creations to Chaos ... oh the horror! the XP!! the CR!!!
You should definitely scan Draconomicon for inspiration. How are the other Draconic deities standing in relation to this war? What about Ashardalon, or other majorly epic draconic villains. There are some good options both for PCs and the DM that will spice up such a campaign.
It seems to me that dragons, while they've made lots of appearances in canonical Greyhawk material, haven't played as big a role in the setting as they have in some others. (Dragonlance being the most obvious). What parts of Oerth would the AP focus around? What lands will the dragons lay waste? Do you want to focus on a heavily-adventured part of the Flanaess, so you can drop lots of easter eggs on your players? Or develop a less filled-in corner?
Also, a whole AP is a lot of work, and it's handy to be able to use some adventures clipped from the pages of Dungeon (or elsewhere) so you don't have to write every adventure whole cloth. Red Hand of Doom is a good suggestion, though it would take modification to plop it into the Flanaess. I'm just wrapping up that adventure arc, but I set it as a long-isolated colony of the Great Kingdom placed geographically far to the west--beyond the Plains of the Paynims. The adventure itself recommends setting it in the Flinty Hills, IIRC. Another dragon-related adventure I can think of off the top of my head is Ill-Made Graves (from Dungeon 133). There was a very long 3.0e adventure centered on a half-dragon somewhere around issue 89 or 90, but not sure it would be suitable.
I'm involved in a similar project right now, but mine is rather different than yours--it's focused on Blackmoor, but will also bring the players to Greyhawk to sojourn there. The plot is a little more loosely tied together than the Dungeon APs, but it revolves around two notorious villains whose names start with I. About half of my planned adventures are published--I'm going to use Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, and about five or six Dungeon adventures from the Paizo era, and possibly a heavily modified version of the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth remake that was published in the first online number of Dungeon.
One other thing to consider, if you're running this AP with some of the players who played the first three, is to tie them together by dropping some references and Easter eggs to give a sense of connectedness. In my AP, Celeste will definitely make an appearance, as will the remnants of the ancient spellweaver civilization that were in evidence around Cauldron. ERG has one nice AoW Easter egg built in--a certain disgraced Arena Director makes a cameo. And it's set in the city of Greyhawk, so other NPCs like Eligos and Tarquin Shortstone can make appearances as well, if desired. The Seekers, the eladrin Court of Stars, Saureya, Tenser, a shadow pearl, Tyralandi Scrimm (either James Jacobs' AoW character or the fiendish denizen of Scuttlecove), the Lillend artist from the Wyrmcrawl fissure, Malcanthet or Red Shroud--all of these are excellent candidates for a repeat appearance in AP4.
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Well, two questions to keep in mind:
1) Where in Greyhawk do you want to set this? One of the strengths of Age of Worms was its close connection to the background.
2) What are the first two adventures going to be like? Let's say you do decide to use something like "Red Hand of Doom" for the 5th - 9th levels. What leads into this?
Also, I'd think twice about using both dragonspawn and abashi. They seem to occupy the same niches
Cult of the Hopping Prophet and their horrid scheme implanting slaad eggs into unhatched dragons, creating slaad-inspired dracospawnOoooh, that's a good 'un!
Isn't the Hopping Prophet extremely lawful? Why would they be messing around with slaad eggs (frogginess notwithstanding)?
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Weird, eh?
In Sea Wyvern's Wake, there is a group called the Wizards of the Hopping Prophet who are a 'cabal of slaad-worshipping bigots who wish to infest the material plane with chaos in the form of their beloved outsiders.'
And the Cult of the Hopping Prophet, on the other hand, is a cabal of frog-worshipping bigots who wish to infest the material plane with order in the form of, um, lots of froggy humans.
Sorry, what was your point again? ;-)
Weird, eh?
In Sea Wyvern's Wake, there is a group called the Wizards of the Hopping Prophet who are a 'cabal of slaad-worshipping bigots who wish to infest the material plane with chaos in the form of their beloved outsiders.'
And the Cult of the Hopping Prophet, on the other hand, is a cabal of frog-worshipping bigots who wish to infest the material plane with order in the form of, um, lots of froggy humans.
Sorry, what was your point again? ;-)
I was thinking of the demi-god Wastri's (a.k.a. the Hopping Prophpet) description in the Greyhawk boxed set. He's a lawful neutral (with evil tendencies) monk/cleric/assassin; his main doctrine is that "humans rule, demi-humans suck". Of course, Pluffet Smedger the Elder might have made a mistake on his alignment... :-)
Isn't the Hopping Prophet extremely lawful? Why would they be messing around with slaad eggs (frogginess notwithstanding)?Cult of the Hopping Prophet and their horrid scheme implanting slaad eggs into unhatched dragons, creating slaad-inspired dracospawnOoooh, that's a good 'un!
Nawp - the Cult of the Hopping Prophet is masquerading behind the facade of a LG gawd - on Oerth, that'd be Heironeous. During the STAP, a minor NPC aboard the Sea Wyvern is infested with one during some shore leave, to suffer a horrible gruesome death after a few days at sea when a blue slaad grokks itself right out of his chest. The circumstances 'as written' that can thwart the hatching are just too easy, so quite a few GMs have fiated the hatching.
I may be mis-remembering the name of the group, but they do have divine casters (as the short description mentions clerical healing being available 'with a small addition' to recipients) and they decidedly have an agenda to spread slaadi chaos and mayhem far and wide. Imagine a large warship, with a crew of six dozens or more, returning to Sasserine crewed by seafaring slaadi that sail the ship in a deliberate ramming run. In the ensuing confusion, they'd disembark and scatter, implanting eggs all through out the population, snacking on those who seem delectable (and not wasting eggs on chow)and otherwise wreaking havoc. Slaad are chaotic - but they know a Lawfull threat when they see it and have well above average mental ability scores - so I suspect that at least half of the initial crew would target the first temple or two to a Lawful gawd/gawddess they come across. As they fan out ... ah, the imagery...
Nawp - the Cult of the Hopping Prophet is masquerading behind the facade of a LG gawd - on Oerth, that'd be Heironeous.
Isn't the Hopping Prophet extremely lawful? Why would they be messing around with slaad eggs (frogginess notwithstanding)?
It's clear to me now that the Paizo version of the "Hopping Prophet" from Savage Tide is a somewhat retooled version of the Hopping Prophet that appeared in Dragon #71 and in the Greyhawk boxed set (i.e. he's chaotic, not lawful). So carry on...
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The direction this is going, I see a conflict between to extra-planar entities: Tiamat and the Hopping Prophet. Which, exactly, should the PC's be rooting for? I'd rather see an AP with a single villain: we may not find out ho that is until midway through the campaign, and there might be side-issues with minor villains (who are, say, taking the opportunity to advance their causes in the hub-bub surrounding the main storyline...)
Where in the Flanaess would you set the adventures?
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Well, let's get this back on track:
Adventure 1: (say, Levels 1 - 2) Establishing shot. Maybe the party is inadvertantly responsible for setting events into motion that catalyze the villains. (For example, they find a magical widget and sell it for the cash; the magic shop sells it elsewhere, and a shadowy organization realizes what its discovery portends...)
Adventure 2: (levels 3-4)
Adventure 3: (levels 5-6)
Adventure 4: (level 7)
Adventure 5: (levels 8-9)
Adventure 6: (level 10)
Adventure 7: (levels 11 - 12)
Adventure 8: (levels 13- 14) -- visit other planes, when the party returns home, years have passed.
Adventure 9: (level 15)
Adventure 10: (levels 16 - 17)
Adventure 11: (level 18)
Adventure 12: (levels 19 - 20)
Adventure 13: (epic levels 21 - 23) Take the fight to Tiamat in Hell.
If you incorporated "Red Hand of Doom", it'd fill out Adventures 3 - 5.
After some consideration, I'm growing less fond of the wide variety of spawn of Tiamat. They are designed to fill up any game niche with a dragon. ("You were going to use a minotaur? Use a blackspawn raider instead.") I'd like to see Greyhawk use humans --with draconic classes and templates-- more than humanoid spawn of Tiamat. (Now, more bestial, or monstrous, spawn of Tiamat don't bother me as much...)
For one of the adventures, I'd like to exploit the close relationship between red dragons and Githyanki. Perhaps the red dragons are responding to recent commands from Tiamat, to the inconvenience of the Githyanki, who travel to Greyhawk to determine the cause of the problems.
A quick note--As written, Red Hand of Doom takes a batch of PCs from 5th to 11th or 12th level. The cover says 6th-12th, the introduction says 5th-10th or 11th. The following is peppered with spoilers, so I'm tagging it in case anyone here might be playing the adventure.
If you're going to use RHoD more or less as written, you'll want to block off about six levels of adventuring for it. However, four of the individual chapters are site-based "go here and perform this mission" adventures that could be quite easily pulled out of it and recast to fit your AP4 plot. The fifth chapter is a Heroes of Battle style adventure, which was a lot of fun, but the Victory Point schema that goes with it is pretty specific to the adventure as written, so you'd have to do some retooling if you were going to run it out of the context in which it is set in RHoD.
The plot of RHoD is pretty solid, I think, and if you wanted to use it whole cloth, it would be an excellent way to have the PCs (a) learn of some larger threat to the civilized world posed by the Queen of Dragons, and (b) incur the enmity of the Queen of Dragons. The overall cast of the adventure is a "Heroes of Battle" setup, though, with the PCs getting involved as players in a war between hobgoblin Tiamat-worshippers and their human neighbors.