This isn't a request to revisit the power level of the spell. I have no problem with the power level of this spell, either in 3.5 or in Pathfinder. What I have a problem with is how this spell works mechanically.
Personally, I think the mechanics of this spell are too complicated. I used this spell once in 3.5, and it took about twenty to thirty minutes to resolve its effects as players rolled for every item, and struggled to understand the rules for magic item saving throws. Granted, I haven't had any experience using this spell in Pathfinder, but mechanically, the spell isn't that much different, so I don't really think that matters.
Here are some ideas that I think should be discussed.
-The rules for magic item saving throws need to be revisited and made simpler. As is, it's a real pain when players with low Will saves have to look up the caster level of every single magic item on their character sheet in order to determine whether their personal saving throws are higher than their magic items.
-The spell should disjoin all spells, consumable items, and unattended magic items automatically. Permanent magic items must make their saves individually or be disjoined.
-The spell should disjoin all spells automatically. All magic items must make a d% roll equal to the spell's caster level or be disjoined.
-The spell disjoins all spells and unattended magic items automatically. Attended items must make a Will save equal to their owner's or be disjoined.
Now I'm sure there are other ideas about how this spell could work, many of which are better than the ones presented here. I'm also sure there are people who think there's nothing wrong with the way the spell works now, and that's fine. However, I think the rules for this spell should at least be reexamined, even if the final decision is to leave things the way they are.
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I think the revision in PF as opposed to 3.5 was a huge step into making this a usable spell in play. Auto dispel of all spells in place, supression of Magic items for duration if Will save fails, and the targetted version to destroy items/artifacts is fine by me and we've been using this version in my 3.5 STAP game currently.
As for the Players having to look up the Caster Level of their items... I have my players have a head-to-toe list, by item slot or where they cary it, of all their magic items including Caster Level, Activation type, Cost, and page number reference for any special ability or spells they need to reference to use said item.
And 2 + 1/2 caster level for an items saves isn't that hard to remember.
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As for the Players having to look up the Caster Level of their items... I have my players have a head-to-toe list, by item slot or where they carry it, of all their magic items including Caster Level, Activation type, Cost, and page number reference for any special ability or spells they need to reference to use said item.
If the player's write the caster level down after the first time it would speed any other time they get Disjunctioned.
Also you wouldn't have to roll for *every* item, just ones that are actually used.
To the OP - I heartily disagree with destroying consumables automatically - would slaughter those crazy wand wielders out there (much as I disdain them). This despite *loving* the 1st edition Dispel Magic that destroyed potions :)
To the OP - I heartily disagree with destroying consumables automatically - would slaughter those crazy wand wielders out there (much as I disdain them). This despite *loving* the 1st edition Dispel Magic that destroyed potions :)
I think if you're using the Pathfinder version of the spell, where the items are only disjoined for a specific duration, then it's not so bad. If you're talking 3.5 rules, though, I agree it does sucketh the mucheth.
Maybe the number of disjoined items/spells can be reduced by making it depending on casterlevel. But that needs some tweaks. Firstly the order of the disjoining has to be clarified, maybe the caster defines groups of magic which are effected first. Those could be: Spells, martial equipment (weapons, armor, arane bond) wonderous items and so forth.
Maybe that interferes too much with the new (and very fine) 1destroys rule.
uck, post eaten again.
Anyhow, this topic is more or less the same one as being discussed in another thread, where Jason has proposed a limit on Buffs per character in order to simplify the situation for Dispels - MDJ just amplifies the scale of the problem. My full response to that is here, but I'll cut to the chase:
Why not, using ONE Saving Throw,
Determine whether each effect is dispelled, based on Spell Level and Stat Bonus?
(i.e. You know the DC, and based on the roll determine what Spell Levels survive and which don't)
This also make Dispel Magic work more like most all other spells, i.e. Fireball doesn't let you Save for each individual Damage Die, you only save once for all Spell Effects.
uck, post eaten again.
Anyhow, this topic is more or less the same one as being discussed in another thread, where Jason has proposed a limit on Buffs per character in order to simplify the situation for Dispels - MDJ just amplifies the scale of the problem. My full response to that is here, but I'll cut to the chase:Why not, using ONE Saving Throw,
Determine whether each effect is dispelled, based on Spell Level and Stat Bonus?
(i.e. You know the DC, and based on the roll determine what Spell Levels survive and which don't)
This also make Dispel Magic work more like most all other spells, i.e. Fireball doesn't let you Save for each individual Damage Die, you only save once for all Spell Effects.
I think another option could be that creatures make an initial saving throw to avoid having the magic of all of their items suppressed. 1 minute later, creatures who fail this save need to make saving throws for each of their magic items to avoid losing them permanently.
I think something like this would preserve the intent of the spell without grinding combat to a complete halt.
uck, post eaten again.
Anyhow, this topic is more or less the same one as being discussed in another thread, where Jason has proposed a limit on Buffs per character in order to simplify the situation for Dispels - MDJ just amplifies the scale of the problem. My full response to that is here, but I'll cut to the chase:Why not, using ONE Saving Throw,
Determine whether each effect is dispelled, based on Spell Level and Stat Bonus?
(i.e. You know the DC, and based on the roll determine what Spell Levels survive and which don't)
This also make Dispel Magic work more like most all other spells, i.e. Fireball doesn't let you Save for each individual Damage Die, you only save once for all Spell Effects.
I think another option could be that creatures make an initial saving throw to avoid having the magic of all of their items suppressed for a certain duration (1 round/caster level). At the end of the spell's duration, creatures who fail the spell's initial saving throw need to save for each of their magic items in order to avoid losing them permanently.
I think something like this would preserve the intent of the spell without grinding combat to a complete halt.
I think a a faster disjunction mechanic is absolutely essential. I've DM'ed a number of high level campaign, an a more potent dispel option is much needed level the field every now and then, if only to make the players consider timing more carefully.