|
I'd give the man an F, kick him out of school and deport his parents for raising him.
I consider him the worst President ever; and when I lived in Texas, he was the worst Governor ever. The dude never finished anything. And he never earned anything for himself. He went AWOL from the National Guard and never got in trouble for it, was given the Texas Rangers and then fell into politics. At Yale, he sat at the back of the class and threw spitballs at the teachers. He rode through life on the name of his family and his Daddy's money. He was manhandled by Dick Cheney (CE if I've ever seen it) and Donald Rumsfeld! The guy should have never been in the horse race, let alone won it; Gore is twice the man Bush is.
He and Cheney basically just did what they wanted, when they wanted, with little to no oversight or limits. Yes, I blame Congress for letting these fools get away with it all. But it ORIGINATED in the Bush White House.
The Patriot Act is an atrocity; just an evil document.
Bush is what you get when you vote for a guy that you want to have a beer with. Clinton has a brain. Obama has a brain. Bush has that good-ole boy charisma. And he didn't screw his interns. So he appealed to the folks that were so offended by Slick Willie's Roman Hands. Look what it got us. We finally became the Capitalist Warmongers that the rest of the world has always accused us of being. Our stock with the rest of the world plummeted, we embraced torture, we preemptively started a war, we wiretapped our own people, we waited several days while an American city drowned, we sat in a school classroom dumbstruck as the Twin Towers fell, we ignored the signs of the housing bubble as it grew too big to not pop; we being the Bush Administration.
So yeah, I give the man an F or a U or an I (for Incomplete). Whatever, the guy reeks. Good riddance. Today is the beginning of a better America. Maybe we can get our world-standing back to where it once stood.
Obviously, this is MY opinion. And I stand by it.
(edit) I gotta stay outta this crap.
I know what you mean. I wish I had better sense to steer clear. Nothing good comes from posting on these kind of threads. However, it's sorta like the moth and the flame to me.
D
International policy was poor (the afore-mentioned us vs them is very damaging internationally), lets not forget he's the most unpopular president since living memory,and his protectionist stance on steel and other trade policies actually damaged the US interest rather than improving it. He also had no proper long term strategy on any policy (including afghanistan and iraq) and promoted unilateral actions.
On the bonus side, he did manage to build concensus in the US after 9/11, gave clear leadership in crisis (even if it was in the wrong direction).
So... could have been worse, but certainly the worst president since Nixon.
|
|
So... could have been worse, but certainly the worst president since Nixon.
As long as there is Carter, it will take a considerable effort for someone to be the worst President since Nixon.
Indeed, I would classify Carter as the worst President since the last would-be world messiah to occupy the White House, Wilson. Neither Nixon nor G.W. Bush come close to displacing those two bottom dwellers.
|
He was an adulterer, carrying on an affair out of wedlock.
Wait?? Pres. Bush did this??? When???
And to all of those who think that no good is coming from this post, I think we are actually being quite civil towards one another. Considering some of the other posts that I have read through about politics, no one has gone off on anyone yet...except about the kolbold breeding, but they had it coming... ;P
|
..... we waited several days while an American city drowned.....
Sorry, but I have to take exception with this one. Part of the reason the Fed response to Katrina and New Orleans was delayed is the fact that then Governor Blanco resisted efforts to cooperate and coordinate with the White House, and Bush did not want to seem like he was overiding her authority.
|
|
He went AWOL from the National Guard and never got in trouble for it, was given the Texas Rangers and then fell into politics. At Yale, he sat at the back of the class and threw spitballs at the teachers. Obviously, this is MY opinion. And I stand by it.
Actually an intensive investigation found that he did not in fact go AWOL from the National Guard. The documents which "proved" that he did, which CBS News ran with, turned out to be forgeries and several people over at CBS lost their job over the ensuing scandle. In fact, military records from the time show that he accompanied his unit to Vietnam, but did not fly any missions. As for his Yale performance, he may of sat in the back and thrown spitballs at the teacher, but he also only ever got one grade lower than a C, and impressive accomplishment at Yale. John Kerry, who also went to Yale and was often said to be smarter then the president, got five Ds at Yale. Both John Kerry and George Bush ended up having gpas that were only four points apart according to the Boston Globe.
|
|
That being said David I doubt Bush will ever be in the league of FDR.
I never said that President Bush would be considered in the same league as FDR. It was simply an illustration of how in the decades to come the image of the former president might change. It was also a illustration of how very subjective calling someone "the worst president ever" is. As one of my history professors taught us in class, most peoples perception of history does not extend beyond their earliest memories.
|
|
Wait?? Pres. Bush did this??? When???
And to all of those who think that no good is coming from this post, I think we are actually being quite civil towards one another. Considering some of the other posts that I have read through about politics, no one has gone off on anyone yet...except about the kolbold breeding, but they had it coming... ;P
I never said that was Bush.
I said it was another past President, someone who has never been truly rated on the absurd things he did.You thought I was describing Bush?
|
|
Wait?? Pres. Bush did this??? When???
And to all of those who think that no good is coming from this post, I think we are actually being quite civil towards one another. Considering some of the other posts that I have read through about politics, no one has gone off on anyone yet...except about the kolbold breeding, but they had it coming... ;P
I never said that was Bush.
I said it was another past President, someone who has never been truly rated on the absurd things he did.
You thought I was describing Bush?
[embarassment] Actually yeah...thats why I was suprised!! [/embarassment]
FDR?
|
|
FDR?
A man who attempted to subvert one of the branches of government by suborning the collusion of the third branch of government.
A man who, like a predeccessor, campaigned on a platform for peace yet deliberately provoked war by absurd pretenses of "neutrality", and overt economic warfare.A man who unconstitutionally seized the property of citizen by executive order.
A man who sanctioned the most virulent racism, leading to hundreds of deaths, and the complete violation of civil rights.
A man who ignored war crimes for years, and then refused to take action to stop them.
A man who casually negotiated away the sovereignty of other nations to purchase support for his schemes from the greatest mass murderer ever.
An adulterer, who may well have connived to involve his own daughter in arranging trysts with his mistress, who may even have been with him when he died.
No, the first is not FDR.
|
|
FDR?A man who attempted to subvert one of the branches of government by suborning the collusion of the third branch of government.
A man who, like a predeccessor, campaigned on a platform for peace yet deliberately provoked war by absurd pretenses of "neutrality", and overt economic warfare.
A man who unconstitutionally seized the property of citizen by executive order.
A man who sanctioned the most virulent racism, leading to hundreds of deaths, and the complete violation of civil rights.
A man who ignored war crimes for years, and then refused to take action to stop them.
A man who casually negotiated away the sovereignty of other nations to purchase support for his schemes from the greatest mass murderer ever.
An adulterer, who may well have connived to involve his own daughter in arranging trysts with his mistress, who may even have been with him when he died.No, the first is not FDR.
That would be Woodrow Wilson, if I'm not mistaken.
|
|
That would be Woodrow Wilson, if I'm not mistaken.
Wilson and FDR are close, but in fact it is Wilson I refer to as the predecessor in this line:
"A man who, like a predeccessor, campaigned on a platform for peace yet deliberately provoked war by absurd pretenses of "neutrality", and overt economic warfare. "Wilson also had an actual bill on trading with the enemy to use.
Wilson also seems to have no known sexual issues.
Conversely:
He created a constitutionally suspect federal business that engaged in economic activity that directly led to both the Great Depression and the current financial collapse.
While theoretically opposing segregation he allowed a law against misegenation.
He was a committed eugenicist, supporting the first law for compulsory sterilization.
He was part of a conspiracy that effectively made an unelected person President.
In pursuit of idealistic goals he abandoned all rational responsibility in peace negotiations, producing a treaty a Senate controlled by his own party would not ratify, and creating an organization that would do nothing as the world moved to the most atrocious war ever.
That is Wilson.
The second was Kruelaid's guess of FDR.
The first remains unidentified.
Should I give more clues?
|
|
Warren Gamaliel Harding?
A man who was the "first" Obama, at least in terms of qualification.
A political non-entity until he gave a convention nominating, and with a campaign driven by his wife, he at least managed to finish out a term as Senator.Gossip suggested he may have *whispering* miscegenated *whispering*.
His cabinet was made up of old cronies.
These cronies sold out, surprise, suprise! to Big Oil, presaging the transgressions of Haliburton.
He intruded on the privileges of Congress in managing the budget, a deliberate separation of powers established by the Constitution.
His infidelity led to an unsuccessful political blackmail attempt against him, and a successful one against the Republican Party.
Perhaps the most shameful thing was his inaguration of press conferences, indulging the media in its belief as to its supremacy over all three branches of the government in determining national policy.
Nah, Harding was a nice guy compared to that first clown. (Although I must say it was fun reading his wikipedia entry and finding so many cheap comparisons to Obama.)
A few more clues for our first degenerate:
He was a notorious trial lawyer before his election.
He was financially incompetent, relying on his prestige to avoid his creditors seizing his property though he was functionally bankrupt.
His election was tainted by atrocious scandal and the worst kind of political deal-making. It is shocking that his administration was even considered legitimate. Compared to his election, 2000 and 2004 were paragons of electoral purity.
|
William Jefferson Blythe III, AKA William Jefferson "Bill" ClintonNot even close.
I will not bother doing Clinton, or anyone from Nixon forward, it is just way too easy, which also eliminates them from being the first individual.
I honestly did not think so but had to put it forth.
My guess would perhaps be Andrew Jackson.
I'm late to this party. We talking about TJ?
edit: oo, second set of clues. Well, the greatest mass murderer ever was Chairman Mao, no?
|
|
I honestly did not think so but had to put it forth.
My guess would perhaps be Andrew Jackson.
Getting closer as it were, but still no, although Jackson is really eaasy to trash.
To begin with, he was not a natural born citizen. Period.
He took cronyism in federal appointments to atrocious heights.
Never mind having an affair, he married a bigamist.
He fought repeatedly as a result of that, killing one man.
He destroyed the banking system in the U.S. out of personal vengeance, provoking a massive depression.
He engaged in ethnic cleansing in open defiance of a Supreme Court ruling. (Allegedly presaging Stalin's question regarding how many divisions the Pope commanded.)
Before he was President he was involved in an invasion of a foreign power without a declaration of war, executed two nationals of yet another foreign, and created a major crisis that was barely resolved by gratuitous imperialism.
Yeah, taking shots at Jackson is like taking shots at Nixon.
This is really fun, Sam. You should work up a few Prez Puzzles like this.
|
|
I'm late to this party. We talking about TJ?
Damnit.
Just when I thought this would go on the rest of the week.(Or at least another ten Presidents.)
edit: oo, second set of clues. Well, the greatest mass murderer ever was Chairman Mao, no?
No, I am pretty sure Uncle Joe still has the body count advantage there, which covers FDR selling out Eastern Europe to him so the Soviets wouldn't stop short of finishing off the Nazis.
If not, correct that to #2. ;)
I'm late to this party. We talking about TJ?Damnit.
Just when I thought this would go on the rest of the week.
(Or at least another ten Presidents.)edit: oo, second set of clues. Well, the greatest mass murderer ever was Chairman Mao, no?No, I am pretty sure Uncle Joe still has the body count advantage there, which covers FDR selling out Eastern Europe to him so the Soviets wouldn't stop short of finishing off the Nazis.
If not, correct that to #2. ;)
That was SO well designed. You could seriously do a book of those.
|
|
This is really fun, Sam. You should work up a few Prez Puzzles like this.
Heh.
My goal is to demonstrate the whole "judgement of history" thing.This is extemporaneous from wikipedia. If I actually broke out some of my books I could do a lot better. (Worse?)
With enough partisan determination, anyone can defame any President into unrecognizable (well, nearly) infamy.
Now there is a report today about the Mexican Foreign Minister claiming undue influence in the Ramos and Compean Affair. If that is true, G. W. should be post-office impeached just to disable him from any other office or position. But even that proves just how a judgement now is innately unfair.
Look at Nixon. He is still acknowledged as our greatest SOB ever, but even he is only #9 on that list. How much further will his reputation be rehabilitated in another quarter century? How many other quirks of someone like out first subject become damning indictment in the same period?
Oh, and The Jade?
You are supposed to use a Klingon accent and say "Do Lincoln now."
:-P
This is really fun, Sam. You should work up a few Prez Puzzles like this.Heh.
My goal is to demonstrate the whole "judgement of history" thing.
This is extemporaneous from wikipedia. If I actually broke out some of my books I could do a lot better. (Worse?)
With enough partisan determination, anyone can defame any President into unrecognizable (well, nearly) infamy.
Very well done.
Now there is a report today about the Mexican Foreign Minister claiming undue influence in the Ramos and Compean Affair. If that is true, G. W. should be post-office impeached just to disable him from any other office or position. But even that proves just how a judgement now is innately unfair.
Look at Nixon. He is still acknowledged as our greatest SOB ever, but even he is only #9 on that list. How much further will his reputation be rehabilitated in another quarter century? How many other quirks of someone like out first subject become damning indictment in the same period?Oh, and The Jade?
You are supposed to use a Klingon accent and say "Do Lincoln now."
:-P
LOL!
|
|
Very well done.
Thank you.
I will have to keep it in mind as an exercise though.LOL!
:D
Oh, and just in case, I am ready to define all of those incidents for anyone who thinks that could not be actual events. I think you would all have more fun looking them up yourself. As I said, it is all from the wikipedia articles (him and his Presidency), so you do not have to do all that much digging. Just scan them and look for things assuming the worst.
|
|
I have to say, when it comes to President's who make a list of top national idiots, one really stands out to me.
This clown cut defense spending to the point of effectively not having a navy or army, then got into a war!
The dweeb cut taxes figuring to run everything on trade revenue, then tried to ban trade with our two biggest trading partners!
The fool was big on reducing the national debt, then provoked those wars, as well spending on a major imperialist expansion!
The jerk had this shtick about being a "strict" constitutionalist, then he overrode that to enable his imperialism!
This total incompentent did not bother firing federal prosecutors, he went all the way to try and impeach judges, including a Supreme Court judge!
He was an adulterer, carrying on an affair out of wedlock.
He held racist beliefs with elements of eugenics thrown in.And somehow he is not on that Top 10 list.
Inconceivable!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say James Madison.
Edit: Looks like I missed it, I was going to say Jefferson too, but then I got hung up on the Non-Intercourse Act being passed in 1809.
|
|
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say James Madison.
Edit: Looks like I missed it, I was going to say Jefferson too, but then I got hung up on the Non-Intercourse Act being passed in 1809.
First, I cannot stress how totally un-something it is to name an act that. Talk about getting the government out of the bedroom! (But not my mind out of the gutter.)
That was a continuation of the Embargo Act, and is part of the indictment for cutting taxes and trying to run the government on tariffs, then screwing up trade completely.
Seriously, that is as bad as the whole "cut taxes to encourage investment, then outsource jobs and run an out of control trade deficit" plan of the last 20 years or so.
You know, regarding Carter, I am somewhat reminded of last year's Nobel Peace prize winner Martti Ahtisaari who served one term as president of Finland...many people agree that he he has done pretty good jobs in Namibia, Indonesia etc. (well, Russians are not happy about Kosovo) But you will still have to look for anyone who thinks he was exceptionally good president; mediocre at best. His abilities lie elsewhere.
|
|
You know, regarding Carter, I am somewhat reminded of last year's Nobel Peace prize winner Martti Ahtisaari who served one term as president of Finland...many people agree that he he has done pretty good jobs in Namibia, Indonesia etc. (well, Russians are not happy about Kosovo) But you will still have to look for anyone who thinks he was exceptionally good president; mediocre at best. His abilities lie elsewhere.
Agreed. Carter is an excellent humanitarian and the work he has done around the world in that regard is excellent and admirable. He just wasn't cut out to be president and it showed. He was sort of the antithisis of Bill Clinton. Clinton was a consumate politician, but there was not much about the man to admire on a personal level.
|
I have to say, when it comes to President's who make a list of top national idiots, one really stands out to me.
This clown cut defense spending to the point of effectively not having a navy or army, then got into a war!
The dweeb cut taxes figuring to run everything on trade revenue, then tried to ban trade with our two biggest trading partners!
The fool was big on reducing the national debt, then provoked those wars, as well spending on a major imperialist expansion!
The jerk had this shtick about being a "strict" constitutionalist, then he overrode that to enable his imperialism!
This total incompentent did not bother firing federal prosecutors, he went all the way to try and impeach judges, including a Supreme Court judge!
He was an adulterer, carrying on an affair out of wedlock.
He held racist beliefs with elements of eugenics thrown in.And somehow he is not on that Top 10 list.
Inconceivable!
Jefferson!
Edit: sorry, should have read the whole page.
Carter is an excellent humanitarian...Funny, he didn't even ask Castro about the three dissidents shot a couple days before Carter's last visit to Cuba...
Carter =/= "Excellent humanitarian", sorry.
So, one misstep* negates his entire body of work?
Not a very forgiving disposition now is it?* and make no mistake, it was something that should have been brought up.
|
|
Carter is an excellent humanitarian...Funny, he didn't even ask Castro about the three dissidents shot a couple days before Carter's last visit to Cuba...
Carter =/= "Excellent humanitarian", sorry.
So, one misstep* negates his entire body of work?
Not a very forgiving disposition now is it?* and make no mistake, it was something that should have been brought up.
Several "missteps" in his post-presidency "foreign policy" world tour, actually. But then, some of those are in the eye of the beholder.
And, yes, I have a hard time forgiving hypocrites...
|
|
Carter is an excellent humanitarian...Funny, he didn't even ask Castro about the three dissidents shot a couple days before Carter's last visit to Cuba...
Carter =/= "Excellent humanitarian", sorry.
So, one misstep* negates his entire body of work?
Not a very forgiving disposition now is it?* and make no mistake, it was something that should have been brought up.
Several "missteps" in his post-presidency "foreign policy" world tour, actually. But then, some of those are in the eye of the beholder.
And, yes, I have a hard time forgiving hypocrites...
Actually I don't count his rogue diplomacy as part of his humanitarian works. I was refering to Habitats for Humanity and that work.
|
|
Actually I don't count his rogue diplomacy as part of his humanitarian works. I was refering to Habitats for Humanity and that work.
I'll give you that one, I did some work for them once, good group of folk there.
But. I look at the whole person, not just some of their accomplishments. Frankly, Carter getting a Nobel Prize made about as much sense (coinsidering the "tour" that led up to said prize) as Arafat getting it.
|
|
I am not going to argue with the other criticisms, but I will dispute that Andrew Jackson destroyed the banking system and provoked a massive depression because he vetoed the re-chartering of the Bank of the United States(BUS).
If that was all Jackson did it might be a legitimate rebuttal. The problem is, it was not.
He also issued the Specie Circular by executive order. This required payment for government lands to be made in specie only. This meant coins had to move west so farmers could buy land. Unfortunately, England was currently inhibiting the transfer of bullion ot the U.S., so when the eastern banks needed specie to pay their federal debts, the coins had to come back east and stop circulating.That combination caused the panic and depression.
And what was Jackson's motivation?
Revenge against Nicholas Biddle, President of the bank, and a personal enemy of Jackson's.
That doesn't excuse anything else he did, but unlike the frauds who rule this country today, Jackson didn't bail out bankers who lost tons of money by giving them more taxpayer dollars so that they could turn around and do it all over again.
Jackson also did not bail out the farmers who lost their lands, who he alledgedly wanted to help by destroying the Bank of the United States with his personal vendetta.
Also it should be noted that the collapse occurred after Jackson left office, though as a direct result of his policies.
As for the issues of fiat currencies and how they interact with the economy, that is another topic. Simply put though, the position of the Austrian School and its various Libertarian supporters is wrong. A switch to pure bullion based currency will not guarantee immunity from depressions or recessions, it will not guarantee immunity from inflation, and it will not guarantee immunity from speculative lending bubbles. It will put a massive chokehold on economic growth, limiting both actual and potential growth to a point that a depression will seem like a good thing.
...
As for the issues of fiat currencies and how they interact with the economy, that is another topic. Simply put though, the position of the Austrian School and its various Libertarian supporters is wrong. A switch to pure bullion based currency will not guarantee immunity from depressions or recessions, it will not guarantee immunity from inflation, and it will not guarantee immunity from speculative lending bubbles. It will put a massive chokehold on economic growth, limiting both actual and potential growth to a point that a depression will seem...
Just wanted to pop in and say I used to be a big fan of bullion-based currency before I read: The Power of Gold. Great book about humanity's relationship with Au and its financial ramifications.
|
|
Revenge against Nicholas Biddle, President of the bank, and a personal enemy of Jackson's.
You have to admit though, Biddle was not exactly looking out for the country's best interests in the job. He did engage in shennanigans to make Jackson look bad as well...
Both men were petty when it came to dealing with each other...
|
|
Just wanted to pop in and say I used to be a big fan of bullion-based currency before I read: The Power of Gold. Great book about humanity's relationship with Au and its financial ramifications.
I never had a particularly strong, or even weak, view on the matter until I read the Wealth of Nations. Combined with basic ancient and renaissance, and age of exploration history, most all arguments in favor of bullion-based currency are so easily exploded as to make it truly difficult to understand how anyone can continue to advocate them. Add anything other than absolute pro-bullion economics, plus industrial and modern history, and no legitimate arguments to justify bullion based economy.
Now control over fractional reserve banking . . .
Report Card:
Economics: F
Foreign Policy: D
Domestic policy: D
Environment: D
History: D+
Homeland Security: B+Comments: Possesses ability to stick to his guns. Also possesses ability to ignore public opinion. Highly commendable features. Not going to win popularity contests. In the future, needs to practice long-term planning.
Mastery of the English Language: Z-
|
|
You have to admit though, Biddle was not exactly looking out for the country's best interests in the job. He did engage in shennanigans to make Jackson look bad as well...
Both men were petty when it came to dealing with each other...
Yet the "shenanigans" were precisely what Jackson wanted - no lending without full backing. That Biddle demonstrated this early in an effort to get backing for the bank was less than glorious perhaps, but it demonstrated exactly what would happen because of Jackson's vendetta, and opposition to any reserve banking.
JFK
Yup. He had whole districts of Chicago voting for him that had been razed for urban renewal. "Vote early, vote often!" But Sam specified "an affair out of wedlock," which disqualifies JFK (who by all accounts had any number of them).
|
|
Yup. He had whole districts of Chicago voting for him that had been razed for urban renewal. "Vote early, vote often!" But Sam specified "an affair out of wedlock," which disqualifies JFK (who by all accounts had any number of them).
And in wedlock, and in the White House.
JFK is another of those almost too easy targets, starting with his adultery and drug addiction, and moving to "that incident". Past them though, the most outrageous things about are more attributable to others:Stole the election through massive fraud. (Orchestrated by his father, who was also a notorious bootlegger back in the day.)
Worked to violate multiple rights guaranteed under the Bill of Rights in pursuit of suppressing political dissent. (His brother Bobby getting his start with HUAC, McCarthy, and Roy Cohn.)
Turning the Spoils System into nepotism that provoked an actual law. (Again his brother Bobby, this time as Attorney General.)
Being a focus of overt subversion of an oath of office by a cabinet member. (McNamara confessing he continued to advocate failing policies in Viet Nam out of loyalty to Kennedy rather than service to the US and the Constitution.)
That leaves for him:
Treachery and failure of will in supporting the fight against dictatorship. (The Bay of Pigs.)
Complicity with dictatorship directly impinging on our current problems. (Supporting the Nazi-descended Ba'ath after their coup in Iraq, including the first appearance of Saddam Hussein.)
A bit thin, but still significant enough to suggest more people should take a step and consider when creating a cult of personality around him.