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So in the game I'm running, they're just about to enter the Aropolis in "A History of Ashes." The party consists of a fighter, cleric, wizard (conjurer), and rogue; all of them are at level 10. We're playing with the Pathfinder RPG beta. I'm finding that the fighter character seems overpowered and is practically destroying everything. I'm wondering if this will be a problem as the adventure goes on; I don't want the group (specifically the fighter PC) to simply stroll through the rest of the AP with no problem.
As an example, his attack right now is +20/+15 (Base atk: 10, Str +5, Weapon focus, greater weapon focus, weapon training +2, +1 great axe). With this attack, he effectively can't miss any of the monsters or NPCs unless he rolls a 1 or 2. And the damage he does is also pretty ridiculous, 1d12 + 14 + 1d6 fire (overhand chop/backswing, weapon specialization, weapon training +2). Is this normal for level 10?? If not, any ideas on how to handle the rest of the AP with such an overpowered fighter?
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My party has a lvl 10 Duskblade with STR: 23. His current maximum potential is:
+2 frost flaming greatsword with Power Attack and a Shocking Grasp on one attack:
+12/+6 to hit (attack bonus goes up faster than AC, at higher levels most attack hit unless it's a Power Attack)
1st hit: 2d6 + 23 + 1d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 5d6 electricity = 54,5 dmg on average
2nd hit: 2d6 + 23 + 1d6 fire + 1d6 cold = 37 dmg. on average
So if he goes all bananas and hits with both attacks he gets 90 dmg in a round. If we ditch the Power Attack it goes down to "just" 67 dmg.
Somewhat balanced by him having low AC due to lack of shield and getting hit by almost everything. Our combats are usually very visceral :)
Your fighter PC is at normal damage output level for a lvl 10 char.
I wonder why nerfing magic is "necessary"...
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I think I'm more concerned that he has a +20/+15 to attack, which almost guarantees a hit every time he attacks, especially with the kind of monsters/NPCs they're going up against now. Although I guess he's not doing 90 damage each round, but still... auto hit (essentially) every round for 20-30 damage on both attacks??
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At higher levels, attack bonus scales up much faster than AC. So, in general, everybody hits - many CR 10 monsters have +15 - +20 attack, so they hit a vanilla PC rather easily.
It changes dramatically once people start to Power Attack around, especially in PFRPG where PA is on a fixed number, unlike a "slider" it was in 3.5
So it's a pretty natural thing to have attack rolls in that range, don't be alarmed :)
My Party i am DMing is in the same situation. We are in the Last Module and his Minimum Damage with Vital Strike is 91 points. On a 2 he will still hit the Queens AC. Part of this is cause he Aquired a Template from a Magic item in the Castle. (Not saying which item, or which template cause there is no spoiler warning in the title). To say the Least the Dwarf Fighter has a 40 str and 33 Con. I will be Re-working The Last place in the Last Module. The Queens got a huge Use Magic Device, so I will use that, and im also thinking about throwing an Iron Golem or 2 in down below that she "brought with her"
Anyone got any imput on wether or not this would break stuff?
To say the Least the Dwarf Fighter has a 40 str and 33 Con.Wow... that seems kind of ridiculous. How did it get this high??
I DM a party with the same problem, just a fighter lvl 7 (we are during « escape from old korvosa ») but if i wish to make the situation a little difficult for him, that is to say kill the rest of the party because if I make stronger the foes, the rest o f the party wouldn’t be able to touch them and so, be killed by the foes whereas the fighter must make an effort to fight. The solution is the damage reduction (because the damage reduction doesn’t count against spells and the damage caused by the fighter will be less important). For exemple, If I had wished, I could kill him during the fight against Girrigz, and it was thank to the sorcerer that they succeed in kill him!
I've played in a game with a fighter like this. I was playing a monk. About halfway through the adventure, I just stopped paying attention and starting browsing the web the whole game session, since my character was not completely min-maxed and therefore was irrelevant in combat.
My suggestion is this: talk to your players. Tell them that for the sake of everyone's fun, you need to make changes to their characters. You could tone down the fighter, or give everyone else a boost. You may get grief from this (especially from the fighter's player), but you risk alienating the rest of your players if you don't.
I was playing a monk...browsing the web
LOL ! Because during the last session, the sorcerer use « web » in order to slow down the red mantis, and in fact the fighter couldn’t move to go to fight so that was a long long night for him !!!!
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As an example, his attack right now is +20/+15 (Base atk: 10, Str +5, Weapon focus, greater weapon focus, weapon training +2, +1 great axe). With this attack, he effectively can't miss any of the monsters or NPCs unless he rolls a 1 or 2. And the damage he does is also pretty ridiculous, 1d12 + 14 + 1d6 fire (overhand chop/backswing, weapon specialization, weapon training +2). Is this normal for level 10?? If not, any ideas on how to handle the rest of the AP with such an overpowered fighter?
That seems totally normal; in fact, given that he seems to only have a +2 weapon (assuming it doesn't have other properties), it could be a lot worse.
Add in Bull Strength, Heroism, Bardic Inspiration, etc...and the bonuses rack up.At that level, he shouldn't be missing very often, except against the most difficult AC. The game should no longer be about swinging at empty air every other round. But at that level, the opponents have other methods to avoid being hit, besides AC, which becomes effectively a form of Damage Reduction by discouraging Power Attack.
To prevent being hacked apart, enemies must;
- prevent him reaching them at all (barrier spells, faster movement rate),
- force him to move further than 5 feet, to deny full attack,
- use concealment (Blur, Invisibility, etc. Don't forget, vs invisibility, he has to pick the right square to attack, and still has the miss chance),
- use decoys or speedbumps (Mirror Image, illusions, summoned allies, difficult terrain),
- deal Str damage, to reduce his attack/damage bonus, and lose the prerequisites for his feats,
- target his poor saves or ability scores (maxing Str has to leave an Achilles heel somewhere),
- and if all that fails, fight defensively or with Expertise.
You will be beaten if you fight on his terms; so the clever opponent simply does not fight on this character's terms.
In my game, the paladin is also like that. She's an absolute beast with her overhand chop/power attack/smite evil combo and most fights end with her chopping her enemies to shreds.
However, de-buffing spells are absolutely lethal against these super-strong damage monkeys. The party is about to assault the Urgathoan temple, but will be in for a rude surprise when they come up against Rolth.
I retooled the necromancer so that he is focused on primarily shaping the battlefield and weakening enemies (prohibited schools: evocation, enchantment). He has a whole bunch of rays (enervation, split ray of enfeeblement, ray of exhaustion) which could nullify the fighter pretty quickly. He'll stop the party from getting close to him through some judicious use of web, slow, black tentacles and the like. Come to think of it, I might actually reduce the number of mooks that are available just so the party can have a chance.
Ultimately, the first level spell: ray of enfeeblement is like kryptonite to these guys - especially because they can't save against it. Stack on any combination of metamagic feats on top of it and you can potentially reduce your Hercules into a wimp in a couple seconds.
My Party i am DMing is in the same situation. We are in the Last Module and his Minimum Damage with Vital Strike is 91 points. On a 2 he will still hit the Queens AC. Part of this is cause he Aquired a Template from a Magic item in the Castle. (Not saying which item, or which template cause there is no spoiler warning in the title). To say the Least the Dwarf Fighter has a 40 str and 33 Con. I will be Re-working The Last place in the Last Module. The Queens got a huge Use Magic Device, so I will use that, and im also thinking about throwing an Iron Golem or 2 in down below that she "brought with her"
Anyone got any imput on wether or not this would break stuff?
Well at first i thought it might take away the fun for other players, but they are all pretty close on par.
You already know the details on the fighter. The monk also pulled the same card and it bumped him up to "average damage" in the party. The Sorcerer is a Follower of Bahamet and became a Dragon Born. She loves it and uses Form of the Dragon when she needs to beef up. The Rogue claimed the Psuodo-dragon earlyer on and Took Leadership making the Psudo Dragon his Cohert. He "taught"t he psuodo-dragon the way of the rogue. He also has a Small Flying carpet that he loves. The Barbarian (person on his 4th character) is just happy he is staying alive, and the cleric in the party is an NPC they hired. Pretty much everyone is even (other then the barbarian). The Problem now is Upping the Queen to make her a challange. I think i know how im going to do it but im not 100% sure.
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Snorter, you have some excellent tips, which I will definitely consider! I think I've realized the biggest problem is that I'm not "tailoring" the NPCs/adventure to my party; I'm purely using exactly what is written in the stat blocks. I think some retooling (ie. the ray of enfeeblement, as suggested by Cesare) of some of the NPC magic-users will definitely give my fighter a tougher time than he's having now. Thanks for the tips, all. I'm just glad to know that his Fighter 10 is "normal" and not ridiculously min/maxed out.
