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I think that Brigandine should be added to the armour list as Medium or High-end Light armour. It's a common RW armour type and is different than scale in weight/coverage and less cumbersome too, but less costly than a breastplate.
Maybe something in between Breastplate and Scale? Either that, or make it light armour, but a little more cumbersome than a chain shirt and slightly less expensive with the same armour value?
I think that Brigandine should be added to the armour list as Medium or High-end Light armour. It's a common RW armour type and is different than scale in weight/coverage and less cumbersome too, but less costly than a breastplate.
Maybe something in between Breastplate and Scale? Either that, or make it light armour, but a little more cumbersome than a chain shirt and slightly less expensive with the same armour value?
I second the call for the return of brigandine, what else are brigands supposed to wear? Right now they are all naked in my campaign and very em-bare-a$$ed!
A couple more thoughts on armor. I liked brigandine for thugs and orcs.
whatever happened to ring mail?
I liked leather scale, bring that back too (although hide shirt seems to be very similar)
And what about armor peices like they had in oriental adventures? You know guantlets, chest peices, leg armor all separately could give light armor alot more interesting options.
You could wear, say plate armor shoulder pads and guantlets giving you +1 ac per arm, but still be in the light category, by the time you put on the legs and the chest peice its (+1 per arm and leg, +2 for chest) a total of +6 and by the time you get everything on together its heavy armor and a total of +8?
Alot of choices there could be for light armor
Personally, I take the other approach; I think there should be three kinds of armor -- "lots", "some", and "a little". Then brigandine would fall under "some". :-)
But I wouldn't feel personally offended if there was one more type of armour in the armour chart. :-)
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I think a basic brigandine and sallet (no bevor) would count as "a little". Add some plate to beef it up and it goes to "some". :)
I suggest the following: +4 AC, -3 ACP, Max Dex +4, ASF 25%, 75gp, Spd 30/20', 25 lbs, Light, comes with a steel cap
Available in mithral and adamantine since it's primarily made of metal plates inside a leather or cloth shell.
Very cozy and easy to move in. I had a couple suits back in my SCA days and could wear it all day without feeling encumbered. It was made of thin steel and layers of heavy cloth too; so it was a fair approximation of the 15th century model it was patterned after.
I think a basic brigandine and sallet (no bevor) would count as "a little". Add some plate to beef it up and it goes to "some". :)
I suggest the following: +4 AC, -3 ACP, Max Dex +4, ASF 25%, 75gp, Spd 30/20', 25 lbs, Light, comes with a steel cap
Available in mithral and adamantine since it's primarily made of metal plates inside a leather or cloth shell.
Very cozy and easy to move in. I had a couple suits back in my SCA days and could wear it all day without feeling encumbered. It was made of thin steel and layers of heavy cloth too; so it was a fair approximation of the 15th century model it was patterned after.
I would be fine with the "Light, medium, heavy" armor classifications as the only mechanical types of armor in the game.
I would also suggest an extra heavy or super heavy classification so that there were four levels of armor.
Brigandine is little different from Splint or Banded.
Then treat it as Scale, isn't much different from that, either.
Why does full plate weigh more and cost ten times as much as mail and count as heavy armor, when it typically weighed the same and cost less than mail yet allowed easier movement due to superior weigh distribution?
As Westley said in The Princess Bride: "Get used to disappointment."
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Why does full plate weigh more and cost ten times as much as mail and count as heavy armor, when it typically weighed the same and cost less than mail yet allowed easier movement due to superior weigh distribution?
As Westley said in The Princess Bride: "Get used to disappointment."
I fail to see the connection between adding another armour type and the above statement.
PS I'm already plenty used to disappointment. I have children. ;)
Adding a new armor because it is "historical" but very little different from two existing armors is not as significant as changing existing armors to be like "historical" armors really were... why bother with the one when ignoring the greater disparity?
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So, I shouldn't push for change because there are bigger problems to deal with? If everyone took that attitude, we'd still be playing out of the red box and colouring our own dice with crayon. We'd also be doing so by firelight in a cave. :)
Paizo (we love you Paizogolem!) is asking for suggestions about what could be done, I'm merely doing my part. I'm also choosing my battles.
Although a complete rework of the armour system is an interesting excercise...
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I think a basic brigandine and sallet (no bevor) would count as "a little". Add some plate to beef it up and it goes to "some". :)
I suggest the following: +4 AC, -3 ACP, Max Dex +4, ASF 25%, 75gp, Spd 30/20', 25 lbs, Light, comes with a steel cap
Available in mithral and adamantine since it's primarily made of metal plates inside a leather or cloth shell.
Very cozy and easy to move in. I had a couple suits back in my SCA days and could wear it all day without feeling encumbered. It was made of thin steel and layers of heavy cloth too; so it was a fair approximation of the 15th century model it was patterned after.
I've never thought of brigandine as light, as the metal plates can be quite heavy. At 25lbs (in your write up) that pretty much sums it up as a medium armor for me as well.
I would seriously compare this to a Breastplate before I set the price at 75 gold too. Of course the chain shirt is 100 gold, but I think that's attrociously low cost for that armor as well.
Other than these minor qualms, good work. I've always liked the idea of brigandine in D&D, but I thought it would be statistically too close to a Breastplate.
You get a +2.
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I'd be tempted consider it as a medium armour, but I the coverage isn't enough for just the brigandine "jacket" to be counted as such IMO. That and 25 pounds is the same as a chain shirt.
Add some leg and arm harness, a barbute or sallet and belly plate, and that'b be a great medium armour. It might even substitute one of the made up armours like splint, only with a lower encumbrance and ACP.
Thanks for the feedback. Any tweaks to the idea would be welcome.
Just throwing out another idea about armour: Why not just make armour descriptions generic to reflect levels of protection instead of representing a specific kind of armour? This will allow for the chainmail bikini and the impossible plate as well as the more historically accurate armours simply by making the description in game.
We can give it a rating of 1 to 9, where 1-3 is light, 4-6 is medium and 7-9 is heavy. Every 1 point of armour gives a 5% ASF, every 2 armour points is 1 point of ACP, Max dex is 10-armour value, weight is 5 lbs plus 5 per Armour Point. Cost would depend on armour category. Light armour is 10gp plus 10gp per AP. Medium is 50gp plus 50 per AP. Heavy is 500gp plus 100 per AP. You must specify if armour is metal or non-metal.
Non-metal armour suffers -1 AP and increases in weight as if it were 1 AP higher. This can help the druid get decent armour by making it non-metal in description, but not being crazy about the abilities of skin and bark vs. good ol' steel. Metal armour can be made of special metals, and non metals can be made different special materials.
As I said, just tossing around an idea...