Currently playing in a greyhawk 3.0 game running a halfling sorceror and things seemed okay until a period when I couldn't attend because of a chest infection and a cold caught around late October or so of this year.
Came back and found that they had given the only magical item my character had to the rogue so he could sneak into an enemy camp which didn't happen as a result of a fight that happened before they could do so and they couldn't even be bothered to rub the item off my character sheet, when I asked why there was now 2 cloak's of elvenkind in the party the dm decided to ease the tension with the location of another one which I refused and offered it to the wizard since I was more annoyed that they couldn't understand all they had to do was let me know what had happened instead of leaving it to the dm to find out and explain what had happened.
My question however is to do with what happened after that as we had just beaten a major foe and retrieved a cursed crown a certain evil wizard was after and we had to secure for destruction, the foe blew up upon its defeat and my character was one of two caught in the blast the rest made their save as the dm explained that the crown we were after had rolled past them but then added three items had hit the deck after the creature had blown up.
My response was to cast detect magic and after the dm inadvertedly revealed a set of bracers had a spell my sorceror could cast I declared my character was picking them up and then putting them on after I was pounced on by two other players who declared I didn't have the right to do so and that they had the right to declare who best in the party could use them.
Please note of these two players one was playing a LG monk wearing bracers of defence a loaned ring and another item whilst the other was a ranger with an enchanted bow, limited number of enchanted arrows and so on, their argument was flawed because when we first started back when I was the only arcane spellcaster and had to (dumb enough) to learn the identify spell the items we found the paladin of the party grabbed a ring of protection I was offering to the monk and later claimed nobody had wanted it (ignoring the fact there was a unarmoured sorceror in front of him), I only got the cloak because nobody wanted it at the time until that is they decided otherwise whilst I wasn't there to argue...
They eventually decided I was to carry the bracers until they decided who would use them after I identified the three items a spell the wizard also possesses but I passed the bracers to the wizard to use after he asked me about them and I made sure the dm knew he had them but only whilst it was done away from the table so the others didn't know since there had been far too many instances of players acting on knowledge their characters didn't have.
At present the party is heading for a port to sail off to the nearest volcano to cast the crown into, I'm more inclined to help them get to the ship and wave them off before leaving this game for good as I see no reason to waste my time since the only impression I'm getting from this is that some of them are a bunch of jerks that I'd rather not have anything to do with whilst the others seem fine with whats been going it had been the faerun dm's antics (he is currently playing the paladin in this game and wasn't present in this situation) when he was behind the screen that made me give up going to that group for over a year.
Am i overreacting or am I missing something here?
Loot is one of those areas that parties really need to spend time dealing with before they get in the game too deep. Even for close friends, I've seen people stomp away from the table when there is a disagreement to how loot should be handled.
The most "fair" way is to make party members buy a specific item from the rest of the party (at half price, what you'd get if you sold it). The party can allow a character to go into debt potentially, if they wish. If two party members want the same item they could auction it off, giving it to the highest bidder.
Another thing a group has to decide is what to do about fallen comrades and their gear and new characters who come in as this can really screw things up if people die often. Or people might kill off their character if there is the chance of increasing their loot by bringing in a new character.
I would suggest if the loot issue is really the only thing that is causing a problem than should you ask to spend some game time dicussing the issue before you "stomp off".
I would suggest if the loot issue is really the only thing that is causing a problem than should you ask to spend some game time dicussing the issue before you "stomp off".
This wasn't the first time this has happened, the dm for the other game I used to play with declared that he had to be told if any player was doing something he didn't want the others knowing, at the time I was irked because the player who was running the ranger in the current game was supposed to be accompanying the party to search for a specific item and his missing party, when we reached a dragon's lair after he had acquired a pair of magical items off a villain he had charmed he openly stated he was searching for his mirror of mental prowess his research said was here (it was broken) meanwhile I playing a cleric was searching the rest of this hoard and found a bag of holding and a bone ring.
Annoyed at his attitude I told the dm I was holding onto the ring and not telling anyone about it only for him to give them a complete list of what was in the hoard including the ring which led to an argument since whilst I was right as far as they were concerned I was hijacking their "game" since they were dictating who had what item.
His argument was that I was the one stepping out of line when I had been up to that point the only cleric in the party who had to buy his own set of magical armour, shield and bastard sword because the only enchanted suit of armour found I had sold off to aid the party since at the time I didn't realise it would be the only such armour found (except for a normal suit of full plate found shortly before my character was aged 60 years by the ghost of a black dragon so I took a level of sorceror thinking to use the spells as part of the requisites for future item creation use only to be told my character was now "corrupted" and had to pay 27,000gp in the waterdeep sect of his faith to be "cured" and when I finally returned with the means to pay for it was told there wasn't anyone able to cast the spell as they were all out fighting the devil invasion... as far as I know no Helmite priest has been encountered outside of waterdeep since this campaign began, sorry felt I had to explain where this problem originated from)
After that character was assassinated in a church by an assassin posing as a cleric of helm the first my character encountered outside of waterdeep during the entirety of this campaign of several years I left for a few weeks until they raised him and later on left the group when it became clear that unless I was one of the dm's chosen clique I may as well not be playing so I left.
This time I was roleplaying my character's reaction to finding an item with a spell she knew and their reaction to what happened last week is whats left me wondering what am I doing since I had enough of that kind of stupidity the last time and I suspect because of a mix of me missing a few sessions due to ill health and the addition of another player running an arcane spellcaster they've decided that I'm not necessary even though "they" only consist of 3 players in a game of 10.
I have given thought about asking the dm if he'd mind me asking some of the others if they would be interested if I set up a separate table so it can relieve some of the pressure off the dm but the last time I tried this I was basically talked out of this by most of the club at the time even though when I rang the faerun dm to say I wasn't continuing with his game after I had decided I had enough he offered me that option which I turned down since at that point I seriously needed to get away from the mess they had caused.
It is a somewhat one sided viewpoint but I really need advice on this as the dm of the game I'm currently in doesn't deserve me calling to say I'm not continuing his game because of a bad reaction to a pair of powergamers who forget that they aren't the only ones playing.
I think asking about setting up a new table would probably work better, but this thread was about seeing if anyone has experienced anything similar to this and what advice they would give.
Anyway thanks for the response and happy new year!
I'm going to agree with Pres Man. How the luchre is handled should be very clearly defined before anyone sits down to play the game.
If one wants a game where the players have a habit of pocketing items without giving notice and everyone is on board with things working like that then no problem. If, on the other hand loot is going to be fairly divided up in some manner then how thats going to work should also be clear (as well as the rule that says that the players don't jilt each other out of the luchre)
I think a lack of communication on how loots being dealt with is really at the core problem here. Otherwise you'd not be posting. If loot is dealt with in a 'fair' system then its clear who get what and why because the system covers that. If its a case where jilting each other is encouraged and all the players agree and are on board with that then again you have no problem.
As it stands I think your giving me a lot of detail thats mostly not really relevant because, if your handling the loot properly, the details don't really matter. Either its basically dealt with on an almost meta-game level and the method of dealing with it fore stalls all the arguing and bitterness or the whole group chooses to use some other more realistic in game method with the full understanding that such a method won't be fair and that this is in fact a major feature of this method of handling the loot and hence no one has any cause for complaint because they signed up for this in the first place and are getting exactly what they wanted out of the whole scenario.
While choosing how things are going to be in the middle of the campaign is not nearly as good a time to have this talk as prior to game start its certianly better then nothing at all. Clear the air and discuss luchre and how its going to be handled. I suggest that you essentially need consensus if one is going to go with a program that involves jilting each other - though if some players want to go down this road while others don't I suppose one could have some kind of agreement that says that the loot is first divided up fairly and then those that want to mess with each other are free to do so as long as they leave the other party members out of it.
Here's what we always do in our three home games:
One member of the group is the treasurer and notes all treasure found by the group. All money is pooled. Item allocation is discussed as a group, and priority is given to those with the fewest magic items as well as though who seem to be having trouble in combat.
Anytime a player starts pocketing loot, the situation has gone bad. It is because of this that one guy left a game I was in.
Lead up:
This guy who was an "experienced gamer" (meaning he played the earlier editions) wanted all the magic items to be put on a list and then it would go around and everyone one would get a turn to pick something and it would cycle through the people (1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,...). The problem with that method is it assumes that (a) all items are of equal utility to all characters and (b) all items are of equal worth. In reality that doesn't work. Instead you have the sorcerer taking the +2 adamantine full plate, not because he has any use for it but because he knows he can get some good money out of it. Instead of coming up with a better way to do loot, those of us that instinctively knew that this was a bad idea just let it fester.
The explosion:
What happened was that a foe died and dropped a pair of gloves of dex. The rogue that had gotten tired of Mr. "Experienced Gamer"'s way of splitting loot and fearing she wasn't going to get the gloves though she thought she needed them badly decided to just snatch them up (*Warning*Warning*Bad things about to happen!) and keep them. The experienced guy growled, "Is that how things are!" To which she snapped, "Yes! That is how things are!" Mr. experienced guy grabbed his stuff, packed it up and marched out of the game.
So no, this is not unusual, but even given that, even if you are feeling like you are getting stiffed, the way to NOT handle it is to start pocketing stuff. That always ends badly, as you are finding out (and have found out in the past). Instead a proper system needs to be worked out that will give everyone a fair share.
For myself, I prefer to give items to people that think they can use it over just selling it (a bird in hand ...). But when other people in the group don't think that way, you have to fall back to the "purchase" the item method (buy it from the rest of the group). The easiest way is to "sell" everything (add up the total gp value for selling everything), calculate everyone's share of the money and then allow them to "buy" back the items that they want (at the 1/2 price). Also don't forget things like pearls for identify should be put into a party fund (your mage should not be sucking up the cost for these).
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My current group is pretty pragmatic. Whenever they claim treasure, the first thing they ask regarding magic items is: "Who can use this?"
It usually gets settled pretty quickly, without argument. If no one can use it, they sell it and add the cash to the party coffer.
Granted, it was NEVER that clean in my younger days, but our current group ranges in age from 25-45 and we don't take the game seriously enough to fight about it.
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Anytime a player starts pocketing loot, the situation has gone bad.
Not necessarily. In my real life game, everyone knows that only people searching the foe knows what that foe was carrying/hiding. I do this so that they actually start role playing a little and it's working, the rogue has a small stash of cash for a big sword that no one else knows about. I haven't asked him how he will explain the purchase to the rest of the group yet though...
I think as others have said, that if everyone knows what's going on and how loot is to be distributed, it will all work out. The group should be trying to work as a team, not against each other, and then either approach works....
My current group is pretty pragmatic. Whenever they claim treasure, the first thing they ask regarding magic items is: "Who can use this?"
It usually gets settled pretty quickly, without argument. If no one can use it, they sell it and add the cash to the party coffer.
Granted, it was NEVER that clean in my younger days, but our current group ranges in age from 25-45 and we don't take the game seriously enough to fight about it.
Still don't really recommend this. At least half the people posting to these boards with a problem start with something along the lines of 'I though everything was going along just dandy when...'
At a very minimum I'd confirm that everyone is happy with the system. If the players are happy then great and you can continue doing what your doing but its never a bad thing to make sure everyone is really on board with the situation.
So no, this is not unusual, but even given that, even if you are feeling like you are getting stiffed, the way to NOT handle it is to start pocketing stuff. That always ends badly, as you are finding out (and have found out in the past). Instead a proper system needs to be worked out that will give everyone a fair share.
As you have noted the system was not working. A better way to handle things would have been to stop the game and make a new more equitable arrangement so that things did not explode.
If I'd been the DM I'd have called a time out the moment a player said they were pocketing the item.
Anytime a player starts pocketing loot, the situation has gone bad.Not necessarily. In my real life game, everyone knows that only people searching the foe knows what that foe was carrying/hiding. I do this so that they actually start role playing a little and it's working, the rogue has a small stash of cash for a big sword that no one else knows about. I haven't asked him how he will explain the purchase to the rest of the group yet though...
Tell us how it pans out. I'd like to see if this actually works in the long run. Frankly most of the time it just makes everyone hate rogues or want to play them, just so you can have enough skills for sleight of hand (to pocket stuff yourself), spot (to catch other people pocketing things), etc.
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Tell us how it pans out. I'd like to see if this actually works in the long run. Frankly most of the time it just makes everyone hate rogues or want to play them, just so you can have enough skills for sleight of hand (to pocket stuff yourself), spot (to catch other people pocketing things), etc.
Well, I'm in the "everyone's too busy bothering about their kids to worry too much about the game" group too, I'm the youngest player, I'm 26 and I DM, so arguments are rare, and never going to be game destroying. We also don't get together much to play any more.
New years was a good example, the game got through about 3 rooms searched and one coup de grace before we got distracted with other things....
I think the best advice is probably, "know your group" and if anyone i unhappy with something, change it.
Anytime a player starts pocketing loot, the situation has gone bad. It is because of this that one guy left a game I was in.
In my case my character had been namecalled because I had sussed this was going to be some kind of trap, but because the dm hadn't time to adjust for 10 players it meant I had held back for no reason although once I did realise this I joined in and went behind the villain in an attempt to help gain all the other in front a flanking bonus (save those at either side on the front) and only survived that fight because by then my character had had to learn both mage armour and shield since any AC protection items that we found were ending up with either the monk or the paladin that I know of.
My character was one of two caught in the blast following which the dm declared three items hit the ground my character the sorceror promptly cast detect magic and because one item was revealed to be using a spell my character knew I declared I was grabbing it and then putting it on because I had that spell running at the time and as I was roleplaying someone who wasn't thinking clearly at the time as a result of being caught in that blast and actually hurt I had openly declared this to the dm by saying I was doing something stupid before putting the bracers on.
The two other players literally jumped down my throat over this which isn't the first time as a similar occurrence happened two years previously where even though I had followed the dm's declared rules for this and I was more inclined to pass the item over to the person I thought could use it best.
Unfortunately although I have repeatedly shown that I'd pass on items if I thought someone else had a prior need for it they treated me as if I was the one stealing when they know full well I wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't a reason behind it.
Back then I was annoyed that one player was claiming far too many items and was all but assured of having a full share when his original intention was to locate an item in the hoard for his own and locating his missing party and when the dm either forgot or ignored his own rules I was accused of stealing when I had made the dm aware I was going to reveal I had that item to those party members I felt I could trust as on too many occasions any decent items were claimed by the mage when they were of better use to someone else (the mage in that campaign is running the monk in this one) and no, no such rules on loot delegation was ever worked out initially when I was the only one who could cast identify I tried to give the items to those I thought could use them best and yes the same people overrules me even though I was still right and a certain paladin being played by the brother of said monk grabbed a certain ring when I offered it to the monk he didn't jump down his throat even though he was garbed in full plate when the druid was forced to buy his own suit of armour leaving only the monk and the sorceror without such protection if you ignore the monk's class bonuses funny he didn't raise a stink about that back then isn't it...
Sorry you didn't deserve that but I have been talking to the dm and from the sounds of it, the game is only going to continue for a few more weeks before he returns to the Paladin's players' faerun campaign so I'll either hold out until it finishes or call it a day.
Thanks for the responses, take care and all the best!
PS: And no I'd sooner give the club a miss than ever go through what I did in that person's faerun campaign, some things I just cannot forget.
I would say that you should probably either stick it out or sit the rest out, but when this campaign gets over, offer to run your own for those people that don't want to play in the other one. If need be, offer to run it at a different time. This sounds like you are in some kind of club, I can't believe that you can't have two groups playing at the same time, especially if you have 10 people in a group now. Less people per group means more fun per group. I've got 6 players in my game, and on weeks when we are down to 4 people due to real life issues, you can tell the difference in game speed. I can only imagine what going from 10 to 4 would be.
I would say that you should probably either stick it out or sit the rest out, but when this campaign gets over, offer to run your own for those people that don't want to play in the other one. If need be, offer to run it at a different time. This sounds like you are in some kind of club, I can't believe that you can't have two groups playing at the same time, especially if you have 10 people in a group now. Less people per group means more fun per group. I've got 6 players in my game, and on weeks when we are down to 4 people due to real life issues, you can tell the difference in game speed. I can only imagine what going from 10 to 4 would be.
I've offered to ease the pressure off his game, but was told it would shortly end with a few of the players joining another table for a low level game run by someone else since a couple of them are new to the game.
If they go ahead with this low level game I'll try to join in and then try and see if any of them are interested in a separate game but if his greyhawk game continues the way it is I won't be rejoining it the next time he runs it as I have a perfectly good reason for my character to leave and thanks to their reaction have every reason to not want anything more to do with them.
Anyway I'll see what he has planned so take care and all the best!
I've offered ...
Don't offer, just say, "I am going to be running a game at X time. If anyone is interested in playing let me know. It will deal Y." Don't make it confrontational, don't try to under cut the other people, but make it clear this is what you are going to do.
I've offered ...Don't offer, just say, "I am going to be running a game at X time. If anyone is interested in playing let me know. It will deal Y." Don't make it confrontational, don't try to under cut the other people, but make it clear this is what you are going to do.
Okay, thats why I needed to discuss it since the last time I walked away because it got too much and only returned because someone else was running it and it wasn't at the original place so I thought it might let him run his game with less interference.
So far the paladin's player has been fine, I just didn't expect to be so forcibly reminded of what happened previously by two of the others which is whats' caused my current trend of thought since I'd sooner walk away than ruin it for everyone esle simply because a pair of them are behaving like jerks even if one of them did try to explain their position albeit very badly as I described above.
Anyway take care and all the best!
PS: I guess I better take a new year's resolution and try to cut back on longwinded explanations!
I never really understand the loot mentality of grabbing whatever to sell it. Surely the group will function better in combat etc by people using the things which are best suited to them?
Ah well.
Buy or make some cursed items (preferably lethal ones) and slip them into the next loot pile. Then misidentify them as items your character could use.
If the try and grab the items for themselves then watch smugly as they croak.
And maybe have a teleport (or scroll of) ready to go if it all goes south.
Buy or make some cursed items (preferably lethal ones) and slip them into the next loot pile. Then misidentify them as items your character could use.
If the try and grab the items for themselves then watch smugly as they croak.** spoiler omitted **
Interesting idea except the dm has been openly telling everyone what the items are when we identify them even though neither I nor the wizard's player have said we're revealing exactly what they do such as when I tried to identify a silver plated +1 broadsword and assumed it was a bane weapon only to be corrected by the dm but I doubt that would have stopped the paladin selling the weapon even though we had fought lycanthropes when we found it.
I kind of prefer the idea of calling a +2 amulet of natural armour a dragonscale amulet, a +6 set of bracers of health a set of leonine bracers and calling the +2 falchion the scorpion king's blade, oh well maybe I can use that when the paladin's player turns up this thursday will be interesting to see if that makes the monk and the archer ranger turn up early as well to protest when I call those items by that name I'm also kind of expecting the paladin to try and claim the bracers shame I've already given them to the wizard I wonder if I can persude the dm for once to let me lie about giving them to one of the centaurs who left so he gets to keep them since my sorceror can cast that spell and he'll be their only arcane spellcaster left if I remove Olivia from play...
Still I do like those names for those magical items though... I wonder?
I suppose I'm very lucky. My players have a wonderful "gentlemens agreement" that, despite the fact that their characters may be Chaotic Neutral Magnificent Bastards, they in real life, are not. Emphasis on this, and the roleplaying side of things, added to the "if you can use it or need it then take it" loot dividing system makes it all even out.
I can't really think of any loot related arguments. Early on, there were confrontations about dungeon exploration via stealth or "shock and awe". They favored stealth out of pragmatism, but a few chaotic members really wanted to do shock and awe, citing the dwarf in full plate as a reason against stealth. After a few levels, when stealth became easier due to magic, it became a flip-flop of both, and everyone was happy.
I know that its not feasible for everyone, as not every person at the game table is a good-natured, fair-minded, even-headed person (although thats a nice goal for all of us to aim for), but the "gentlemen's agreement" I mentioned at the begginning can go a long way to solving these problems.
But if personalities just aren't going to support that...personally, if I had enough "surplus gamers" in the area to form a second group, I'd do that in a heartbeat, rather than stick around somewhere where I'm either not having fun or my fun is diminished by worrying when someone will try to make me not have fun. I put up with things in earlier groups that I wouldn't now, because at the time, it was the only group I could find.