[Spell] True Strike - From moderately useful to overpowered?

[Tholas]

Well, in 3.5 I always considered the spell True Strike as a nice option, mainly for ray casters and, to a lesser extend, gish builds. It's first level, it got a fixed +20 bonus to hit, ignores concealment and doesn't depend on the caster level. Good but most times hardly worth the standard action or the 5th level spell slot for the quickened version.
But combine it with an optimized Power Attack/Devastating Blow build and it might become overpowered. Delivering next to full attack damage with a single strike is good enough(imho already too good) by itself but combine it with Power Attack and True Strike and you have a 95% chance of killing or mortally wounding anything (non-crit immune) but a BBEG in one blow. You can find some numbers in this thread

I don't really know if it's really an issue and what to do with True Strike if it is, maybe changing the bonus to 5 + 1/3 caster level?

[Kirth Gersen]

Tholas wrote:

Well, in 3.5 I always considered the spell True Strike as a nice option... But combine it with an optimized Power Attack/Devastating Blow build and it might become overpowered.

It was already pretty sick in 3.5, because there was no cap on Power Attack other than BAB, so you could really go all-out.

Say we have a 19th level guy with Devastating Blow, Power Attack, Str 25, and a greatsword. In 3.5, he true strikes for 2d6+10+38 = mean 55 damage, plus 3 more attacks that probably miss. In PF, he true strikes for 4d6+20+28 = mean 62 damage, and no other attacks. A small margin of difference, requiring investment in an extra 3 feats to accomplish. Also remember that true strike is "self-only," so a full-time feat-monger (aka fighter) won't have access to this option anyway.

That said, I always houseruled that true strike gives a bonus of +1/caster level (max +20).

[Jason Bulmahn]

I am thinking more and more that the problem lies with Devastating Blow and not the numerous other components of this and other similar chains.

But that is not a discussion for this forum.

I think true strike is fine the way it is. You need to spend two of your actions to get one solid hit. Limiting Power Attack actually made this spell a little less useful.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

[Gorbacz]

I'm running a PF game with a Duskblade in the group, with the True Strike + Power Attack + Shocking Grasp combo. It's good, but not overpowered. He still misses every now and then. :)

[Tholas]

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Also remember that true strike is "self-only," so a full-time feat-monger (aka fighter) won't have access to this option anyway.

He could use UMD on a Wand of True Strike. Considering that a level 12 fighter with Str 28(17 base +2 race +3 level +4 item) with the approriate feats and a Scythe +3 can do 2d4+148 with a Devastating Blow + Power Attack combo it would be worth giving up the standard action if he has to move into position or want's to evade full attacks from his enemy or has access to splat book stuff like the ever popular Belt of Battle(MIC)

Kirth Gersen wrote:

That said, I always houseruled that true strike gives a bonus of +1/caster level (max +20).

Good call.

[Bill Dunn]

I think better than +1/caster level would be +2/caster level, max +20. Then it's less useless at 1st level and caps out with a 10th caster level about the same time as a whole bunch of other relatively low-level spells.

[houstonderek]

Tholas wrote:

...a level 12 fighter with Str 28(17 base +2 race +3 level +4 item)...

Doesn't that add up to 26?

[Vigil]

In my groups high level playtest (we're doing the Incursion storyline, playing as renegade githyanki) my gish uses quickened true strike a lot. I call it my Alpha Strike. On surprise rounds or rounds I have to move and can't full attack, I'll quicken true strike, power attack, and devastating blow. I think I'm doing 4d6+64 damage.

That said!!! At 15th level, that will drop a mook. And it's using up a 5th level spell slot. And I could still miss on the attack roll (hey, one's happen!). And it only works against things vulnerable to crits. So while I'm having fun, I don't feel like I'm unbalancing anything. In fact, without true strike, I don't think he'd be all that viable of a character.

[JoelF847]

Bill Dunn wrote:

I think better than +1/caster level would be +2/caster level, max +20. Then it's less useless at 1st level and caps out with a 10th caster level about the same time as a whole bunch of other relatively low-level spells.

If you're going to consider this route, I'd suggest +4/caster level, max +20, since a) it mimics most other 1st level spells that cap out after 5th caster level, and b) it gives the needed boost quicker at low levels. Even at +2/caster level, it would be at least 3rd level before it gave a significant bonus even approaching the current version.

Personally, I think the spell is fine as is.

[Tholas]

Gorbacz wrote:

I'm running a PF game with a Duskblade in the group, with the True Strike + Power Attack + Shocking Grasp combo. It's good, but not overpowered. He still misses every now and then. :)

Does he use a x4 weapon? As long as you don't have access to Devastating Blow Shocking Grasp is totally worth it, but since extra dice are not multiplied on a critical it looses alot with Devastating Blow, the +3 bonus against metal armor wearing types is nice but imho not nice enough. Just hope he doesn't change Shocking Grasp to True Strike next time he can rearrange spells. :)

[Tholas]

houstonderek wrote:

Tholas wrote:

...a level 12 fighter with Str 28(17 base +2 race +3 level +4 item)...

Doesn't that add up to 26?

D`oh! Your right. It's late here and I'm tired. %-}

[Gorbacz]

After being tired of killing players via x4/x3 weapon crits I houseruled to use Crit Deck with x3+ weapons drawing extra cards. As a side effect, this house rule nicely nerfed the TS+DB combo :)

[Tholas]

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I am thinking more and more that the problem lies with Devastating Blow and not the numerous other components of this and other similar chains.

But that is not a discussion for this forum.

I think true strike is fine the way it is. You need to spend two of your actions to get one solid hit. Limiting Power Attack actually made this spell a little less useful.

Of course you're right. But without knowing if Devastating Blow is going to be changed I though I bring this issue up.