Why no monk prestige class?

[wspatterson]

The guy who plays the monk in my campaign is a little hung up on having a prestige class for the monk. So why doesn't the monk have a prestige class?

[Eric Stipe]

Hatred, pure hatred. ;-)

[Mark Moreland]

wspatterson wrote:

The guy who plays the monk in my campaign is a little hung up on having a prestige class for the monk. So why doesn't the monk have a prestige class?

There are several in non-SRD sources, but the purpose of the PFRPG core rules isn't to fill all the missing spots. I'm sure that we'll see others in the future. My money is actually on a paladin/monk combo PrC for paladins of Irori, but when that'll come around I don't know.

[kyrt-ryder]

The real problem here, is that the monk class's upper levels basically are a prestige class, they don't really fill out what the monk does, their bonus abilities that get splatted on.

Unless your willing to use splat books (and I can reccommend you to several good ones, I'm somewhat of a monk enthusiest) then you have three choices.

Make no change and let him be stuck taking full monk.

Design a custom tweak on the monk's class features, trading certain things, maybe disease immunity, or poison immunity, or something you don't want (perhaps SR, the amount the monk gets isn't really of much use) and in exchange set him up with something fun and interesting that he likes and you feel makes a good fit in your campaign.

Suggest he take the shadow dancer class. As it is in the Beta its no better than the craptastic waste of pages it was in 3.5 However we did alot of work revising the shadow-dancer, and some of the stuff in those threads may appeal to you. (I've been play-testing a rework and I'm preparing to post it, I said I would some time ago, but then the opportunity to play-test it came up and I decided to wait.) If you want it, tell me and either give me your email, or I'll give you mine and I can send you my rework of it and you can examine its value and balance for yourself. (or be patient and just wait till it shows up in the PrC boards in a few days lol.)

[MerrikCale]

I always thought that Monk PrCs like Cleric PrCs would be deity or monastery/philosophy specific

[Remco Sommeling]

assassin is also a viable option, monk sorcerer dragon disciple maybe ?

I can think of a Prc for just about any role a monk can fill really, just depends what you are looking for.

[LazarX]

wspatterson wrote:

The guy who plays the monk in my campaign is a little hung up on having a prestige class for the monk. So why doesn't the monk have a prestige class?

In many ways, a fully realised monk is a prestige class all by herself.

However if you want a good lesson in how to vary a monk by a dozen different ways, you might want to check out the Players Guide to Arcanis.

As a bonus, it does the same thing to Paladins by making them the subset of an encompassing class type of Holy Champions. in addition to providing some direct Paladin variants as well.

One of the most interesting additionals was the Priest, a person variant who puts even more faith in his or her god than the average cleric

Sacrifices.

d4 hit die

No Armor

Only weapon allowed is the diety's favorite weapon. (if more than one, you choose ONE and stick with it)

Bonuses

In comparison to the cleric, better channeling or turning (Clerics turn at a variable minus in Arcanis

More access to domains

Access to rituals

And some other faith related tricks.

There's a lot of stuff for arcane/divine types in Magic of Arcanis but the first book is what you're looking for.

The Monk however doesn't really seem to the type that should just go for a generic PrC, there should be a manifold campaign/order/monastic specific ones. With the respective rivalries between. :) "You're Southern style moves are no match for a master of Shaolin! On the contrary it is clear that your Chi and your moves are weak!"

[Pendagast]

I always thought shadow dancer was a monk PrC

[The Wraith]

LazarX wrote:

The Monk however doesn't really seem to the type that should just go for a generic PrC, there should be a manifold campaign/order/monastic specific ones. With the respective rivalries between. :) "You're Southern style moves are no match for a master of Shaolin! On the contrary it is clear that your Chi and your moves are weak!"

Yes, something like the bitter rivalry between Hokuto Shinken and Nanto Seiken from Fist of the North Star (the Animes, NOT the live-action movie !...), with different specialized moves as well !

[Pendagast]

The Wraith wrote:

LazarX wrote:

The Monk however doesn't really seem to the type that should just go for a generic PrC, there should be a manifold campaign/order/monastic specific ones. With the respective rivalries between. :) "You're Southern style moves are no match for a master of Shaolin! On the contrary it is clear that your Chi and your moves are weak!"

Yes, something like the bitter rivalry between Hokuto Shinken and Nanto Seiken from Fist of the North Star (the Animes, NOT the live-action movie !...), with different specialized moves as well !

I think this type of thing was started with "scorpion style"

IF there were more choices of monk feats, where you could get them at a certain level, but you could only choose one and not go back, like:

1st level 3 bonus feats to choose from

3rd level 3 more

5th level 3 more

7th level 3 more

9th level 3 more

12th level 2 more

15th level 2 more

17th level the quivering palm

the rest is history

you would have the ones already listed in there, but throw in some more "tiger claw, jumping monkey, way of the iron back side, and skipping fairy style" and youd have a monk thats a bit tougher, and more varied and intersting to play.

Another idea is to make the monks ki pool similar to the barbaian rage pool/powers, and have the monk have more ki powers to dip into to compensate for some of his weakness (like armor class that never really catches up)

Id like to see monks with ki powers like blurr, blink and mirror image spell like abilites at higher levels as well as temporary Ac boosts from things like mage armor that burned off the ki he had available.

I also would personally scrap the exotic weapons for monks and just go with a list similar to the 1e monk. (keep the shuriken as throwing blades)
Scimitar, spear,throwing blades, polearm, club, crossbow, give them spiked chain, dagger, quarterstaff, and two weapon fighting as a starting 1st level feat. Id also give them shield.
They would be able to use any weapon they had a proficency in with their ki powers or flurry of blows, and they could add ki to weapon damage, keeping melee weapons for them (or even the crossbow) viable for them even after they advance high enough to do all this stuff with their bare hands, why else would monks ever train with weapons at all if they were viable after a certain point?

Ki powers should give the monk access to certain low level spells like cure light wounds, true strike, previously mentioned mage armor, magic fang, etc... (id even like to see haste and water walking at higher levles)

[Kirth Gersen]

Beta playtesting with a monk character has demonstrated to me that investing levels in monk is like being taken in by a pyramid scheme: the more you put into it, the less you get out. If you want to be nice, suggest to the player that he or she redo the character as a bard (for a 3/4 BAB class with skills and mystic ability). Or fighter (for a combatant). Or rogue (for skills). Or barbarian (for lightly-armored combat). Or paladin (for the whole "divine warrior" thing). All those are far better classes, mechanically, than the monk. And if you're weak compared to a bard, you really, really need help.

[wspatterson]

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Beta playtesting with a monk character has demonstrated to me that investing levels in monk is like being taken in by a pyramid scheme: the more you put into it, the less you get out. If you want to be nice, suggest to the player that he or she redo the character as a bard (for a 3/4 BAB class with skills and mystic ability). Or fighter (for a combatant). Or rogue (for skills). Or barbarian (for lightly-armored combat). Or paladin (for the whole "divine warrior" thing). All those are far better classes, mechanically, than the monk. And if you're weak compared to a bard, you really, really need help.

Yeah, redoing a 9th level monk as a different character class isn't really an option.

[Kirth Gersen]

wspatterson wrote:

Yeah, redoing a 9th level monk as a different character class isn't really an option.

Hmmm. Prestiging into Psionic Fist from Expanded Psionics Handbook might keep him semi-viable. If he sticks with straight monk, I fear that you (or the other players) will straight-up have to coddle him for the rest of the campaign.

[Magus Black]

As said above, the monk is the only base class that had a “Capstone” ability (originally) and was in many ways the combination of a base class and a prestige class rolled into one. The objective of the monk is usually Perfection (or at least as perfect as mortals and most ‘immortal’ beings can get) and such ideals don’t generally allow much deviation from the Tao (err Path).

But if you’re looking for looking for monk prestige classes (moving away from perfection) then there are many in Oriental Adventures and if your DM allows ‘The Quintessential Monk’ has a few that are very spiffy for the more ‘Deviant’ mind (along with the Legendary Martial Arts in the back.)

[Cainus]

wspatterson wrote:

The guy who plays the monk in my campaign is a little hung up on having a prestige class for the monk. So why doesn't the monk have a prestige class?

I've created a gun using Alkenstar-based monk PrC. I'm still tweeking it but if you're interested I could send it to you.

'Course that only helps if you're playing in Glorian.

Let me know.

[e-mail]

[Bray - Shan]

Well, outside the current game-testing there is the at least for now older monk prestige class available from sourses like the late great Dragon Magazine?

Those could be adapted for your game?