If 1st level adventurers are assumed to be fully-fledged then their equipment should match their readiness.
Where did you get the idea that 1st level characters are fully-fledged?
There are different settings and different ideas of what a 1st level adventurer is.
There are many who say that 1st level adventurers are fully fledged commoners.
I think that they are somewhat much better people than that. I don't agree with fully fledged, but I can't take the "straight outta the farm" concept also. After all they DID train for all those great abilities.
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I've always been of the mind that while adventures may be cast from a different mold, level 1 means that they have complete what ever training it is that their mentor felt needful before knowingly letting them out upon the world to make there own way. They have been taught everything that they can learn without first gaining experience (no pun intended.) Mages have apprenticed, priest have been indoctrinated, paladin's completed their squiring, etc. These folks are ready to strike out on their own, to succeed or fail is now on their shoulders.
If they held large adventurer graduations the dean would look upon the newly minted class and say some such nugget of wisdom like "Look to you, left, and to your right, one of the three of you will become a zombie, another eaten by a cannibalistic kobold tribe, and the third, if not crushed to death by a collapsing 10x10 std dungeon tunnel will have wealth glory and riches heaped upon you.
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I think that it would save players lot of time if instead of starting with X gold, they received an equipment package based on their starting class.
The basics such as traveler's clothes, backpack, torch/sunrod, rations, sack, belt pouch x2 would be automatic for every class. Everyone would receive 50-100 gp including their class benefit items to round out their characters' personal effects.
Fighter, Paladin would receive 2 melee weapons, 1 ranged weapon, armor of choice, shield
Ranger would receive 2 melee weapons, 1 ranged weapon, light armor of choice, flint and steel
Cleric would receive wooden holy symbol, 1 melee weapon, 1 ranged weapon, armor of choice, shield
Wizard would receive 1st level wand, mortar and pestle, spell component pouch x2, scroll case, paper, quill, ink, spellbook
Sorceror would receive 1 melee weapon, 1 ranged weapon, spell component pouch x2
Whatever wealth discrepancies may exist here would become insignificant over the next few levels after 1st.
What's the point of having heavy armor proficiency if you can't afford heavy armor? I usually traded for a different feat at 1st and got heavy armor at 3rd.
If 1st level adventurers are assumed to be fully-fledged then their equipment should match their readiness. Otherwise 2nd or 3rd level should be assumed to be starting level.
What do you think?
For me the starting money thing works well enough, but your idea has something to it... although I would suggest that "Armor of Choice" should be reduced to Leather Armor for any Class. Otherwise you will have Clerics, Fighters and Paladins running around in Plate Armor from the beginning. Also, one Weapon should be enough.
What could be given for free is the basic stuff, like clothing, Blankets, Backpacks, etc.... Or to make it easy and at the same time keep a cap on the whole thing: 10 Items total and no single Item shall have a base cost of more than 8GP. That would give each Character Basic Equipment of 80GP (maxed out) plus Leather Armor and one Weapon.
Rogues might receive Thieving Tools plus 7 Items (each also at a max base cost of 8GP) plus Leather Armor and one weapon.
In addition to the above any Character should then receive starting money of 6D10 GP.
In the WotC PHB II on page 215 is an example of what the OP is talking about. It has a beginning equipment list that cost 15 gp. Here is the list of equipment:
Backpack 2 gp
Belt Pouch 1 gp
Bedroll 1 sp
Fint and Steel 1 gp
Hempen Rope (50 ft) 1 gp
Sunrods (x2) 4 gp
Trail Rations (10 days) 5 gp
Waterskin 1 gp
Total 15 gp
Optional Equipment
Holy Symbol 1 gp
Spell Component Pouch 5 gp
Spellbook 15 gp
Thieves' Tools 30 gp
This does not include the weapons or armor but might give someone an idea of what basic necessities they will need starting out.
I hope this helps.
As an aside, it also has suggested equipment listings for the base classes and the classes from Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer, at all levels up to 20. It was essentially set up as an easy way to generate NPC's but could work just as well for PC's.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I don't like ideas like this as a standard change to the rules. If you want to make a package that makes for quick purchasing of an "adventurer's kit" or something like that, go for it, but I prefer to have the flexibility to buy exactly the items I want for new characters, and not be forced to have my equipment bought for me. If I want a fighter who specializes in unarmed strikes, and don't want to buy a weapon at all, I should be able to, etc.
This isn't really required. During your first level, you'll pick up every non-masterwork weapon, shield, or arrow you come by. You'll steal torches, feedbags, and loot gold teeth. Then you drag them back to town and sell them for literally tens of gold. Plenty to buy your essentials after an encounter or two.
Not having players start fully equipped and borderline encumbered allows more role-play backgrounds as well. The barmaid sorcerer who just discovered what she can do after she jolted a grabass. The farm-hand barbarian who rages for the first time in his life as the farmer beats him for things not his fault. The bouncer fighter who never quite realized he's got some talent with a blade and maybe can now make a different life from anything he'd ever imagined. Sure, not as effective for monks or wizards but I've made my point. Not everybody's exactly READY when their career starts.
Well this is why this sort of information is great for a sidebar. Other books have something like it available already though, so I'm hesitant to say it is needed in the primary pathfinder book as I imagine we are huge on word count already.
Magic Item Compendium, PHB 2 both have something like this, and the PHB has suggested set ups at the end of each class too.
Starting characters already begin incredibly wealthy compared to Joe Commoner. Having to make do with not-quite top gear for all of one or two adventures is reasonable.
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In the WotC PHB II on page 215 is an example of what the OP is talking about. It has a beginning equipment list that cost 15 gp. Here is the list of equipment:
Backpack 2 gp
Belt Pouch 1 gp
Bedroll 1 sp
Fint and Steel 1 gp
Hempen Rope (50 ft) 1 gp
Sunrods (x2) 4 gp
Trail Rations (10 days) 5 gp
Waterskin 1 gpTotal 15 gp
Optional Equipment
Holy Symbol 1 gp
Spell Component Pouch 5 gp
Spellbook 15 gp
Thieves' Tools 30 gpThis does not include the weapons or armor but might give someone an idea of what basic necessities they will need starting out.
I hope this helps.
Having a few sample kits like this would make equipping a new character MUCH faster and easier. Have the cost and weight of the most common "kits" already figured out. I buy my weapons, armor, and a kit or two. Done.
While I wouldn't go as far as the original poster in allowing a character to have full plate at levle 1, I have to admit that it's kind of lame that there's a whole class of equipment that's basically useful at level one and then is immediately obsolete (e.g. scale armor, non-composite shortbows, mounts that aren't "trained for war", etc.).
You know, Palladium Fantasy has a pretty good break down of this stuff by class as well. However, I agree, Full Plate at 1st level or a wand they shouldn't be able to afford make is a little much. Something I've thought was funny? You are a first level fighter. Where are you from? A small farming village in the back woods. How much money do you have to spend? About 150 gold. Who trained you? A bunch of ex-mercenaries or the local guards/constables. Very well, you know how to maneuver in Full Plate at level one. A suit of which you have probably never seen and cost more than your village.
I give more or less money and free stuff to characters, according to their social class and/or their factions.
For a really low social class, i divide by half the starting money and the character has to buy all his stuff.
For an average class, no modifiers except one free item, such as one weapon for fighters, tools for rogue, spellbook for mage or symbol for cleric, as well as a generic adventuring kit (like the one mentioned above).
For higher class, starting money x2 or x10 (nobles), plus one or two free masterwork items (weapon, armor, tools, symbol).
On the other hand, i assume noble and high class characters to spend more money on their equipment (x2 or x5), to reflect their social status.
I also often give to rogues some "free" stuff, that they "found" during their training days.
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Reading the various back and forth, I gotta agree that just presenting a possible 'adventuring kit' as an option is the way to go. If a character wants to blow the majority of his starting gold on an 'heirloom' and short himself on other gear, or otherwise take some non-standard stuff, I'm cool with that.
I think the PHB pretty much got it right. Everybody gets X gold, and here's some standard starting kits for each class for the new players who might be intimidated by the whole shopping for gear part of character creation (or older players who just can't be bothered, because they are statting up a bunch of NPCs or whatever).
Anybody have any reflections on starting money after playing in a Living campaign? In the Pathfinder Society, everyone starts with 150 gp regardless of class. That should favor those classes who normally start with a lot less, but it hasn't really seemed to bother anyone that I've met.
The reason you don't hear anyone complain about starting cash too often is because it's usually a moot point by the time your first adventure is over. An extra 50 gp or so is a blip in the grander scheme of things.
The reason you don't hear anyone complain about starting cash too often is because it's usually a moot point by the time your first adventure is over. An extra 50 gp or so is a blip in the grander scheme of things.
Huh... Unless the first adventure is a failure or a TPK, partly due (in the opinion of the players) to a lack of decent equipment at start...
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Re: OP
So, kind-of like the Starting Packages from the 3.0 and (less so) 3.5 Player's Handbooks. 8^)
I did definitely like the *option* of taking a pre-defined set of starting equipment, with just enough gold left over for one or two "flavor" items. I do, however, definitely agree it should be an optional variant, and not standard procedure. The option to custom purchase your starting equipment is not only a time-honored tradition, but should be retained for those who want to do something a little different.
So, kind-of like the Starting Packages from the 3.0 and (less so) 3.5 Player's Handbooks.
The starting packages from PHB 3.0 are better than the 3.5 ?
I never noticed...|
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i myself prefer players freedom to chose... and get it wrong
but i also give them items that go with their concept
a andorian barbarian based on Guts from Berserker, got a Great Axe, a Breastplate and a modified Hand Crossbow... that anf a few other tings so he was just over 500 gps... he is an androeian oeprative from the eagle knights in Absalom fighting slavery... he has nothing in his personthat says he is an eagle knight in training andsecert agent...but he has the mood... and the training so i give him the equipment
the fighter is a dexterity fighter, he left heavy armor, and another feat in exchange to have the proficiency with firearms, but asked him to have "Weapon proficiency: pistol" so i gave him the firearms feat from alkensar and a Pistol... 1 shot, but 1d10 damage and the benefits a firearmss gie in themiddle of combat... of course besides that he got leather armor, an old rappier andjust the clothes he has on himself
since the bardess had already gotten her equipment with basic starting money i told his player to re equip her with MW rapier, MW leather armor, with that she was under 500 GPs and ready for action
and when the new player joined i just told him to give his player 500 gps of non-magical equipement
why i do this?
1 is an agent, other has a herloom (pistol), the bardess is low noble, the last one is just fair...
also because is a city game... they won't be earning that much loot, so i gave some from the beggining, i also don't use much magfic items... so much that finding a few potions made them happy.
they are still struggling but having fun, its more RPG than copmbat, but combat has been great :D
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I am not in favor of this idea, for the reason that while 1st level adventurers are adventurers they really are not "full fledged." WHatever that means :) It would be like saying since they are full fledged adventurers lets get the full compliment of HP, Spells, and feats as well as magic items for every slot.
HOWEVER!
A basic adventuring kit would be nice, clothes, backpack, bags, bedroll, waterskin, 50 foot rope, etc. Just to help with the bookkeeping. No biggie if it doesn't happen. I usually make my own basic kit anyway and use it.
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A basic adventuring kit would be nice, clothes, backpack, bags, bedroll, waterskin, 50 foot rope, etc. Just to help with the bookkeeping.
That was my thinking. Just something to speed up character creation a little, especially for new players.
Maybe some enterprising adventuring outfitter offers a deal if you buy the whole kit, 5% off the price of everything purchase separately, or 10% off if you by a used kit (don't mind the blood stains...).
I would distinguish between them. Players have starting equipment which they "buy" from a rolled or determined value of money, but it is considered second-hand and can't be exchanged for list price. It is limited to arms, armor, mounts, normal clothing and one change of clothes (cold weather, fancy, etc as desired), and person items. No "trade goods" or valuables. Then they get a small amount of cash.
I don't use the standard DnD price list, which is ridiculously inflated.