Anybody else having issues with the Earthbreaker? My STR 20 fighter, always power attacking, catching a Bull STR from the cleric - is doing 30 some points a round at 5th level. Makes the Paladin's 6 from a sword seem pretty worthless.
Anybody else having issues with the Earthbreaker? My STR 20 fighter, always power attacking, catching a Bull STR from the cleric - is doing 30 some points a round at 5th level. Makes the Paladin's 6 from a sword seem pretty worthless.
In my party, the fighter uses a greatsword, with a lot of Strength and make a lot of damage too, making also the paladin worthless (thanks also to his feats). The real difficulty is for the DM because if the mobs are enough resistant against the fighter, it means that they overcome the over PC, and if the mobs are equal to the other PC, the fighter make a disaster.
I know it, and it's difficult to manage, but having some damage resistance for the foe is still a solution, not the only one, but against Girrigz, the fighter was near to die (thanks to the kindness of the DM, is still alive) or against the druid under the sea, it was the same thing!
Anybody else having issues with the Earthbreaker? My STR 20 fighter, always power attacking, catching a Bull STR from the cleric - is doing 30 some points a round at 5th level. Makes the Paladin's 6 from a sword seem pretty worthless.
Well, how much damage would the paladin do if he had a 20 STR, Power Attack, Bull STR from the cleric, and a two-handed weapon?
Seriously, as referenced above, the fighter would do the same damage if he was using a Greatsword (and it would weigh less), so I don't see where the Earthbreaker enters into the equation at all.
Personally, as the paladin, I'd want to know why the cleric is buffing the fighter (who obviously doesn't need it with his 20 STR at 5th level) instead of himself (who apparently has at best a 10 STR).
I'd have to agree that while the earthbreaker can do some nasty damage, it sounds more like the reverse side of the fighter sucks argument in that the guy who already is a wrecking ball is getting all of the buffs while the guy who needs the boost isn't. I think you'll find that boosting the rest of the party instead will fix your problem. :P
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Anybody else having issues with the Earthbreaker? My STR 20 fighter, always power attacking, catching a Bull STR from the cleric - is doing 30 some points a round at 5th level. Makes the Paladin's 6 from a sword seem pretty worthless.
How? 1d12 + PA( of maybe +3 for 6 extra damage)+ 10 from strength with Bulls= 1d12+16. A maximum roll is only 28. With Weapon Spec it hits an even 30. If he is full power attacking add 4 to that but he isn't gonna hit nearly as much. I don't see this as a dude that does 30 some points every round unless I am missing something. A 34 is max damage if he is willing to remove +5 from his 'to hit' rolls and that will start hurting his ability to hit, making him miss totally on some rounds, driving down the average. What am I missing?
Is this a +5 weapon or something?
It's basically Pathfinder's version of a 2-handed warhammer. It does 1d12 damage with a X3 crit. It's the same as a greataxe that does bludgeoning.
Right, I caught that. Sorry--I miscommunicated. I was wondering if this particular earthbreaker as discussed by the OP might have some serious enhancement bonuses, since your math indicated that a regular one would have trouble regularly doing the damage he described.
Fifth level fighter, two handed weapon:
STR 20: +10
Power Attack 5: +10
Bull Strength: +4
+1 Weapon
So he starts damage at +25.
Fifth level fighter, two handed weapon:
STR 20: +10
Power Attack 5: +10
Bull Strength: +4
+1 WeaponSo he starts damage at +25.
erm ... I'm running 4E now, and it's been a little while since I've picked up a 3.5 PHB, but I think that two-handed weapons provide only x1.5 STR bonus on damage. Thus, a 20 STR provides a +7 damage modifier with a two-handed weapon. Furthermore, I believe that Bull's Strength provides a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, which results in only a +2 to the modifier, which is the number added to damage dice. Thus, Bull's Strength normally provides only a +2 to damage, or +3 for someone wielding a two-handed weapon. Thus, your fighter is starting at +21 to damage (+7, +10, +3, +1).
If he's hitting every turn while power attacking at full strength, then he's not fighting creatures that are appropriate to his level and you should feel free to up the ante versus the party.
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Fifth level fighter, two handed weapon:
STR 20: +10
Power Attack 5: +10
Bull Strength: +4
+1 WeaponSo he starts damage at +25.
Unless there is some change to the system I'm unaware of, that's too much of a Strength bonus. Only Power Attack is doubled for a two-handed weapon; Strength bonuses are multiplied by 1.5, and since his base modifier is odd, he's losing a point there since the core rule is to always round down.
So I think it should be...
STR 20: +7
Power Attack 5: +10
Bull Strength: +3
+1 Weapon
So starting damage should be 4 points less at +21.
Again though, the disparity is due to the character's incredibly high Strength for 5th level, the specific feat he has taken, how both of those interact with using any two-handed weapon, and the fact that the cleric uses a power that could decrease the disparity between the characters to actually increase it instead (being ultimately responsible for 5 points worth of difference).
And then of course if the +4 extra damage thing is right, that made a difference as well.
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Fifth level fighter, two handed weapon:
STR 20: +10
Power Attack 5: +10
Bull Strength: +4
+1 WeaponSo he starts damage at +25.
Unless there is some change to the system I'm unaware of, that's too much of a Strength bonus. Only Power Attack is doubled for a two-handed weapon; Strength bonuses are multiplied by 1.5, and since his base modifier is odd, he's losing a point there since the core rule is to always round down.
So I think it should be...
STR 20: +7
Power Attack 5: +10
Bull Strength: +3
+1 WeaponSo starting damage should be 4 points less at +21.
Again though, the disparity is due to the character's incredibly high Strength for 5th level, the specific feat he has taken, how both of those interact with using any two-handed weapon, and the fact that the cleric uses a power that could decrease the disparity between the characters to actually increase it instead (being ultimately responsible for 5 points worth of difference).
And then of course if the +4 extra damage thing is right, that made a difference as well.
Yup, that's what I came up with also and when a 5th level fighter is power attacking for full BAB he should be missing at least 1/3 of the time. If he isn't then he isn't fighting appropriate foes for his ability. CR 5 creatures usually have around a 22 AC and with the fighter's strength, weapon and feats he is looking at having a "to hit" modifier of +10 if he uses his full BAB to PA(5 str, 2 BullS, 1 weapon, 2 feat). He needs to roll a 12 to hit so he should be missing about 1/2 the time. Even if he has a flanking buddy or charges he is looking at a dead even chance to hit.
I fear you may be experiencing a math problem and not a rules problem. Besides, anyone can come up with the same numbers using a greatsword or greataxe and they have been around in their current incarnation since 3.0 started. The problem isn't the Earthbreaker. It's the min-maxed PC wielding it or a skewed interpretation of the rules.
I fear you may be experiencing a math problem and not a rules problem. Besides, anyone can come up with the same numbers using a greatsword or greataxe and they have been around in their current incarnation since 3.0 started. The problem isn't the Earthbreaker. It's the min-maxed PC wielding it or a skewed...
I agree. Part of the problem is that you're not comparing apples to apples. The fighter's put everything into his trick, which the paladin has more defensive abilities (a shield, great saves, a bonus to already great saves). All you need to do to even the playing field is to start using entangle and hold person. Voila! The player will start covering his weaknesses. If he doesn't, you have a huge array of options for challenging the rest of the party while he's so easily incapacitated.
Don't forget the fighter is getting a +2 bonus to hit from the bull's strength making up for some of the full power attack mode. This cuts down his misses some. Having said that I still don't see this as being such a huge problem, fist of all to keep him consistently BS'd your caster is throwing around 2nd level spells that could be doing bigger things such as 2d8+x cures or Knock, or summoning critters to help fight, etc. In my opinion sinking those spells on an already beefy guy is a less than optimul use for 2nd level spell slots so as a DM I'd laugh it off and welcome it. As a player I'd rather spread the love around so to speak and if I was the fighter I'd ask the paladin be buffed instead or as the pally ask for the buff, but that's just me.
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Don't forget the fighter is getting a +2 bonus to hit from the bull's strength making up for some of the full power attack mode. This cuts down his misses some.
That was already figured into my numbers, still leaving the fighter at roughly 1/2 the time missing his target with a full power attack.
One dimensional characters are just a bad idea. Especially with a decent DM. I would just keep poking his weaknesses now to make him shore them up or kill him off outright to teach a lesson.
Don't forget the fighter is getting a +2 bonus to hit from the bull's strength making up for some of the full power attack mode. This cuts down his misses some.That was already figured into my numbers, still leaving the fighter at roughly 1/2 the time missing his target with a full power attack.
One dimensional characters are just a bad idea. Especially with a decent DM. I would just keep poking his weaknesses now to make him shore them up or kill him off outright to teach a lesson.
Ah I see, well nvm then :P
As for the actual truth of the matter I believe your right in a sense that if this is his one trick then in any good game he is going to find himself nerfed quite often, not by some sort of DM must take away toys rule, but more in the area that any villian with a brain will quickly watch his minions go squish and put 2 and 2 together and then come up with many ways of dealing with the guy with the whompums. This equates to disarming, sundering, to outright ranged and magic based scenerios all of which end with him getting axed first so the squishy friends can be dealt with at the villians leasure. No smart main villian will let his people get creamed by the one trick pony over and over again without putting up a bulletin about how to deal with him.... Just my thoughts though.
CR 5 creatures usually have around a 22 AC
Glancing through Seven Days to the Grave, only the highest AC enemies are a 22 with many of them being quite a bit less. And I'm finding that Cleave more than makes up for the occasional miss due to the Power Attack.
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CR 5 creatures usually have around a 22 ACGlancing through Seven Days to the Grave, only the highest AC enemies are a 22 with many of them being quite a bit less. And I'm finding that Cleave more than makes up for the occasional miss due to the Power Attack.
There are 8 enemies of CR5 or more in 7 Days. 4 have ACs higher than 22 (25, 27, 23, 23) and 4 have lower (20, 21, 18, 21) and the average of them is 22.22222*. The Gray Maidens are CR2 but still have an AC of 21 also. Looking through the MM, MM2 and MM3 shows a wide number of ACs for CR5 creatures ranging from oozes low ACs to Ravid's high AC and higher. They still are close to an average of 22 for AC.
The point is even full power attacking an AC of 17 misses 1/4 of the time for the fighter, dropping his average MAX damage per round from 34 to 25. AC 22 is still missed 1/2 the time dropping his average MAX damage per round from 34 to 17. If this isn't what you are seeing in your game then your player is either adding something wrong or cheating. I assume he is adding 2-hand power attack and bull strength wrong or not reducing his BAB for the power attack and that it is an honest mistake and not cheating, but the numbers are sound.I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just saying that these are the numbers and if you are having something different happening then there is some issue that needs to be addressed and it isn't the weapon he is using.
There are 8 enemies of CR5 or more in 7 Days. 4 have ACs higher than 22 (25, 27, 23, 23) and 4 have lower (20, 21, 18, 21)...
Not to mention, the foes that have lower ACs have special abilities that play on a fighter's weak points (and one specifically says to use that ability against the "strongest-looking" character).
And really, there is a 25% less chance of hitting with the maxed out Power Attack. It's not too hard to do the math of the average damage multiplied by the odds of hitting. As I see it, the character has a +8 with Bull's Strength and without his +5 BAB (there is a +10 listed above, but I don't see where the +2 from "feat" comes from*). His average damage would be 18 and 28 with the Power Attack at level 5.
That means at AC 20, he does the same damage on average (a 70% chance of hitting for 18 versus a 45% chance of hitting for 28 both "averaging" to 12.6).
Anything above AC 20 and he loses damage by using Power Attack at level 5.
In fact, the maximum 5 levels of Power Attack only become most advantageous at AC 15 or less. Between those ACs, he would average more damage by using a lesser version of Power Attack as the damage lost is made up by the increased chance of hitting.
So really, if the player is contantly using his Power Attack at maximum, he's only reducing his total damage output against foes with an AC higher than 15 (which should be most of them at this level). It may be more impressive when he does hit and thus more memorable, but mathematically, it will be more than balanced out against the times he misses completely.
* If I did miss an extra +2, it just adjusts the AC accordingly. The damage would be the same at AC 22, and the level 5 PA would be the most advantageous tactic at AC 17 or less (still lower than the foes listed above).
Being big and strong, using a two-handed weapon and power attacking can be an ugly, ugly thing. Heck, I had a fighter who used a halberd cause all sorts of badness in fights, and it doesn't dish out as much damage as an earthshaker.
The earthbreaker or any other two handed weapon becomes a heavy hitter...especially if used with the overhand chop. Makes a second level Barbarian a whomping machine even without a godly original stat (as in standard array..oops standard fantasy, that is) but hey...who could whup Conan?
Anybody else having issues with the Earthbreaker? My STR 20 fighter, always power attacking, catching a Bull STR from the cleric - is doing 30 some points a round at 5th level. Makes the Paladin's 6 from a sword seem pretty worthless.
Take away his earthbreaker then, and give him a greataxe, which has been core since 3.0. His damage will drop by 0.5 on average, and 1.5 on a crit! I'm sure that will set things right.