Yes, this was particularly bad in 3.5 where exotic materials were... in the back of the DMG WTF?
Can we get some more special materials?
Can we get some more special materials?I doubt I will have the space...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Most special materials for weapon construction really should probably be "sub-groups" of the base special material groups anyway. I'd suggest just including the following in the PRPG:
- Adamantine
- Silver/Mithril
- Obsidian
- Darkwood
You have some kind of new super-hard metal in your campaign? Treat it as Adamantine. Some kind of sharp, durable stone for arrowheads and speartips? Treat it as Blood Obsidian (or whatever you want to call it). And so on and so forth.
Also: you should probably dump Cold Iron altogether. Cold Iron really just refers to any kind of manufactured, mass-produced type of steel. Give Fey DR/Steel so you can hack away at them all day with your sword, but they can't be harmed by your stone arrowheads or your wooden Shillelaghs. Remove the damage penalty from Alchemical Silver.
And then keep Mithril and Dragonhide for armor, and perhaps add Chitin. Maybe make Chitin a sub-set of Wood. Because who DOESN'T want to wear armor created from the corpses of your insectoid enemies?
I'm looking at you, Ankhegs.
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Since we're talking about special materials; something I would be interested in having as a rule:
Special materials in ore form can be forged into items. Once forged, it is impossible to 'smelt and reform'. Once forged from it's ore form, it loses it's 'mystical' nature if it's melted from its forged form.
This is just a flavor thing; and it prevents players from taking that adamantite great sword the Fire Giant had and melting it down to make 4 weapons of their own......
Sounds nit-picky I guess. But I think its fair.
I have been doing this in my games for a long time now. It keeps the special material "special" by making it need to be found in its ORE form.
Robert
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Since we're talking about special materials; something I would be interested in having as a rule:
Special materials in ore form can be forged into items. Once forged, it is impossible to 'smelt and reform'. Once forged from it's ore form, it loses it's 'mystical' nature if it's melted from its forged form.
This is just a flavor thing; and it prevents players from taking that adamantite great sword the Fire Giant had and melting it down to make 4 weapons of their own......
Sounds nit-picky I guess. But I think its fair.
I have been doing this in my games for a long time now. It keeps the special material "special" by making it need to be found in its ORE form.
Robert
I LIKE!
Why can't you reforge mithril and adamantine? What do they become if you do melt them down? These are completely different metals, not just supped up iron.
I could possibly see Adamantine or Cold Iron having it's form set once it is forged, where it just won't reheat again becuase of some need for extreme temperature (and in the case of Cold Iron reforging requires getting it past it's "mystical state" I'll grant that one)... But a small drop of realism here may be needed. After all if I melt down Iron it's not going to suddenly become Lead because it lost it's mystical properties.
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Why can't you reforge mithril and adamantine? What do they become if you do melt them down? These are completely different metals, not just supped up iron.
I could possibly see Adamantine or Cold Iron having it's form set once it is forged, where it just won't reheat again becuase of some need for extreme temperature (and in the case of Cold Iron reforging requires getting it past it's "mystical state" I'll grant that one)... But a small drop of realism here may be needed. After all if I melt down Iron it's not going to suddenly become Lead because it lost it's mystical properties.
If we can agree that mithril is a "mystical" material with properties that tie itself to the magic of the land; something that lends itself to the world of wizards and dragons and all things fantasy - as is "darkwood" then we can imagine that once forged, it's "mystical" nature is bonded within. Upon smelting again, it becomes unpure; contaminated; that mystical natures somehow becomes ruined. It's simply not as pure Like 10k gold vs 18k gold.
So upon reforging, it looks and feels less authentic; its faded, tarnished, whatever; but no longer has those same special qualities as they once did.
Thus the mithril becomes molecularly less maleable, less light, etc. The impurities have made it more of a composite metal.
Robert
But I don't see mithril that way. I see it as Mithril as it's own element. Same as adamantine is it's own element. Maybe something we don't have around in the "real world" but still it's own thing.
What about Darkwood? If I take a darkwood staff cut it in half and then shape it a bit more with a whittling tool into two clubs are neither club darkwood anymore?
Metal is metal and can be reforged. I'll go with you on the Cold Iron as it's a mystical thing suposedly but I see Adamantine and Mithril as their own metals.
AND if they can't be reforged then there is none of either on Galorian, becuase ALL of the adamantine and mithril came from downed spacecraft and meteors and either of those crashing diffenently generates more heat than a simple forge can anyday. In addition to the fact that any metal on a spacecraft would have already been forged once anyways.
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But I don't see mithril that way. I see it as Mithril as it's own element. Same as adamantine is it's own element. Maybe something we don't have around in the "real world" but still it's own thing.
What about Darkwood? If I take a darkwood staff cut it in half and then shape it a bit more with a whittling tool into two clubs are neither club darkwood anymore?
Metal is metal and can be reforged. I'll go with you on the Cold Iron as it's a mystical thing suposedly but I see Adamantine and Mithril as their own metals.
AND if they can't be reforged then there is none of either on Galorian, becuase ALL of the adamantine and mithril came from downed spacecraft and meteors and either of those crashing diffenently generates more heat than a simple forge can anyday. In addition to the fact that any metal on a spacecraft would have already been forged once anyways.
Ah, but just as easily explained that the spacecraft (peanut butter) slammed into Golarion and fused it's metal with the magic of the world (chocolate) and thus the minerals through infusion merged to create Adamantite mineral (reeses peanutbutter cups).
If you melt down a made reeses peanut butter cup, you cannot hope to recreate it exactly as it was with the chocolate perfectly surrounding a ball of peanut butter.
If were bring physics into it in regards to the meteors and hotter than any forge - the water that is now here on earth was supposedly brought here by a meteor/comet - but it wasnt in water form; it changed molecularly over time to become water.
There's nothing saying that one can imagine the same was true when the alien minerals careened into Golarion. But that is fluff not needed in the RPG rules.
Merely indicating in the rules that it cannot be reforged is a simple mechanic that does not need to make physics sense - since so much in D&D does not make sense from a physics standpoint.
Robert
I do plan to move the special materials to the Equipment chapter...
Yay!
Yeah, it would be a drag if the suit of Mithril plate you took off the dead storm giant couldn't be turned into armor for the party.
The crystalline structure is set when forged, the more you try to work it the weaker it gets. Brittle adamantine? If the special materials were rare (not sported by every schmuck over 10th level) then reforging would be a good rule. Consult your camapign setting.
If the special materials were rare (not sported by every schmuck over 10th level) then reforging would be a good rule. Consult your camapign setting.
I'd say the opposite. The "wealth and equipment by level" rule means that mithril and adamantium are available on demand, even expendables like arrowheads. So, either they are not rare, or they can be reworked.