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Let me start by saying that I really like the ideas behind the new feats. They help fill a need in the game between novel/prose fantasy and fantasy role-playing (i.e. Master Craftsman), as well as covering some weaknesses that 4E noticed (i.e. Step Up).
I am not, however, a fan of Fighter exclusive feats. In my opinion, feats should be the universally usable by multiple classes. A “fighter only” feat breaks that (incidentally, I was never found of Weapon Specialization or Spell Mastery being listed among feats for the same reason; they should be class features!)
I understand why a BAB prerequisite is set for some of these (i.e. Critical feats), but making them Fighter only and high level feats makes some of them virtually “must have” feats; a fighter would be poorly constructed to not take advantage of these exclusive feats when they are available.
I propose that Weapon Training be used as a solution. A fighter should be able to apply his bonus from Weapon Training to his BAB for the purpose of qualifying for those feats. This still gives the Fighter the advantage of earlier and easier access to those feats, but eliminates the need for them to be Fighter only as a prerequisite. Just altering them to list a BAB prerequisite makes them accessible to any martial class, but the Fighter remains king of the combat feat game.
Example:
Disruptive (Combat)
Your training makes it difficult for enemy spellcasters to safely cast spells near you.
Prerequisites: BAB +6.
Benefit: The DC to cast spells defensively increases by 4 for all enemies within your threatened area. This increase only applies if you are aware of the enemy’s location and are capable of taking an attack of opportunity. If you can only take one attack of opportunity per round and have already used that attack, this increase does not apply.
This feat is now accessible for a Fighter at 5th level (thanks to Weapon Training, but only with the weapons group that Weapon Training applies to), a paladin at 6th level, and a Rogue at 7th level.
or how about…
Penetrating Strike (Combat)
Your attacks are capable of penetrating the defenses of some creatures. Choose one type of weapon that you have already selected for Weapon Focus.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, BAB +12
Benefit: Your attacks with the selected weapon ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction. This feat does not apply to damage reduction without a type (such as DR 10/—).
This feat then becomes available for a Fighter at 10th level (if Weapon Focus applies to a weapon from his first weapon group choice of Weapon Training) or at 11th (if his Weapon Focus was from his second weapon group choice of Weapon Training, as chosen at 9th level). For a Ranger, this could no be taken before 12th level, and for a Cleric before 13th.
If this were worded into Weapon Training, requirements for these feats would be obtainable by Fighters before other classes, but not so soon as to truly off balance the Fighter in comparison.
Any thoughts?
Well, Weapon Training do not increase the Base Attack Bonus of a character, however. It simply gives an unnamed bonus to hit rolls and damage rolls.
Otherwise, it would lead to a Fighter making iterative attacks some levels before the other martial characters (not that it would be a bad idea...), as well as giving them a 5th attack at 17th level (BaB +17 and Weapon Training +4 = +21). But this is not the case.
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I understand.
The idea is that the bonus from Weapon Training would be applied as a "virtual bonus" to BAB for meeting the prerequisites for those types of feats. Feats should be an open to the public kind of mechanic... even if the character doesn't see a benefit, which is poor costruction.
For Example:
As written, a non-caster character with Master Craftsman gains nothing unless he also has Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item. Until he has both feats, niether Master Craftsman or Craft Magic Arms and Armor do anything useful, making them seem like poor character construction or a waste. But is a choice a player can make, and benefit later.
I don't see a problem, alot of feats mention class (or race)features in their prerequistes: evasion, uncanny dodge, sneak attack xd6, (divine/arcane)caster level x, ability to summon familiar, ability to turn undead, rage
would it be better to refer to weapon or armor training x instead ?
A fighter did not have class features before so they used fighter level, other classes have plenty of feats a fighter cant choose, so let the fighter have some too. btw there are classes out there that effectively count as fighter levels for the purpose of meeting the prerequiste for feats so it's not completely exclusive.
you might create a feat : formal martial training, that allows a ranger or other martial class to select fighter feats at a reduced level maybe BAB - 4
