Based on the size of the Library of Dust (110ft) the whole city based on the maps on page 36 and page 50, the whole city is only about 2,000 feet across. Not that it was supposed to be Myth Drannor, but that is a very small area for an unban battlefield.
ASEO out
Creative Director
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Based on the size of the Library of Dust (110ft) the whole city based on the maps on page 36 and page 50, the whole city is only about 2,000 feet across. Not that it was supposed to be Myth Drannor, but that is a very small area for an unban battlefield.
ASEO out
It is small; it was never really intended to be a major elven city. It's more of a town, and a pretty ruined one at that. But even at its height, it was a pretty small place. Pretty much all elven settlements outside of Kyonin are relatively small compared to human cities.
It is small; it was never really intended to be a major elven city. It's more of a town, and a pretty ruined one at that. But even at its height, it was a pretty small place. Pretty much all elven settlements outside of Kyonin are relatively small compared to human cities.
With a city/town this size however, it is very likly that combat will draw the attention of others near by and loud disturbances could/should attract a responce. However, since there are other martial actions taking place at the same time as the PCs' raids, maybe the other drow forces are occupied.
That is is smaller is actually kind of refreshing, I was expecting Myth Drannor and was glad to get something fresh, but I have come to expect no less from Paizo.
Keep up the excellent work.
ASEO out
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Creative Director
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With a city/town this size however, it is very likly that combat will draw the attention of others near by and loud disturbances could/should attract a responce. However, since there are other martial actions taking place at the same time as the PCs' raids, maybe the other drow forces are occupied.
True enough... which is why the PCs' actions in the city happen alongside of a lot of other elven attacks and skirmishing. While the elves attack drow all over the place, the city's a tangle of tiny fights and screams and all that, and whatever trouble the PCs get into should be relatively indistinguishable from the dozens of other fights in the area.
If the PCs were to tackle Celwynvian on their own without elven help... yeah, they'd quickly bring the entire drow army in the region down on their heads.
It is small; it was never really intended to be a major elven city. It's more of a town, and a pretty ruined one at that. But even at its height, it was a pretty small place. Pretty much all elven settlements outside of Kyonin are relatively small compared to human cities.
Out of interest were did the elves tend to build smaller city but their were more of them? Also can anyone remember hearing mention of any other elven towns like Celwynvian. I think their was one in the river kingdoms but other than that I can't recall hearing mention of any other elven settlements. Still most of avistan has yet to really be explored so I suppose there are probably more out their its just that Celwynvian is the only one to be mentioned by name.
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Creative Director
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Out of interest were did the elves tend to build smaller city but their were more of them? Also can anyone remember hearing mention of any other elven towns like Celwynvian. I think their was one in the river kingdoms but other than that I can't recall hearing mention of any other elven settlements. Still most of avistan has yet to really be explored so I suppose there are probably more out their its just that Celwynvian is the only one to be mentioned by name.
The elves actually didn't build many cities. There are several in Kyonin, including some really BIG ones (like Iadara), but since the elves have the elf-gate network and can move around their various sites pretty easily, Iadara is never TOO far away so they don't really have the need to build large cities out there in the world.
If the PCs were to tackle Celwynvian on their own without elven help... yeah, they'd quickly bring the entire drow army in the region down on their heads.
And that drow army is how big??
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Creative Director
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And that drow army is how big??If the PCs were to tackle Celwynvian on their own without elven help... yeah, they'd quickly bring the entire drow army in the region down on their heads.
We don't mention that on purpose, because we want the GM to be able to manipulate that number as he or she wishes. If you want to run a game where the PCs have a chance to face the drow army, then the number should be small. If you want to run the adventure as written, the number should be in the hundreds. If you want to do a mass battle scene between elves and drow, it could be in the thousands. It's up to you.
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We don't mention that on purpose, because we want the GM to be able to manipulate that number as he or she wishes. If you want to run a game where the PCs have a chance to face the drow army, then the number should be small. If you want to run the adventure as written, the number should be in the hundreds. If you want to do a mass battle scene between elves and drow, it could be in the thousands. It's up to you.And that drow army is how big??If the PCs were to tackle Celwynvian on their own without elven help... yeah, they'd quickly bring the entire drow army in the region down on their heads.
And for this, I thank you. When I read the blurb for this adventure, I was expecting something like Stalingrad, but much, much, slower.
The fact that each side has gates that can funnel reinforcements helps explain why things aren't more block by block, too, I guess.
We don't mention that on purpose, because we want the GM to be able to manipulate that number as he or she wishes. If you want to run a game where the PCs have a chance to face the drow army, then the number should be small. If you want to run the adventure as written, the number should be in the hundreds. If you want to do a mass battle scene between elves and drow, it could be in the thousands. It's up to you.And that drow army is how big??If the PCs were to tackle Celwynvian on their own without elven help... yeah, they'd quickly bring the entire drow army in the region down on their heads.
Thank you James. For those folks who were complaining about the 'gap' in these adventures, some early skirmishes with smaller drow units around or outside Celwynvian would help make up the difference.
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If there is a elf gate network...why the other elves are in her cities meanwhile the drow menace is too strong?
The Winter Council, i thought, its present in a lot of regions and cities...i cant understand why they dont send their troops (elven people i mean)and his powerfull wizards to defeat the entire drow party in Celwynvian.
I dont understand a lot of things in the attack, and i think the players need more motivation to help.
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If there is a elf gate network...why the other elves are in her cities meanwhile the drow menace is too strong?
The Winter Council, i thought, its present in a lot of regions and cities...i cant understand why they dont send their troops (elven people i mean)and his powerfull wizards to defeat the entire drow party in Celwynvian.
I dont understand a lot of things in the attack, and i think the players need more motivation to help.
Because the drow menace is something that the elves of the Mierani Forest have been trying to keep under wraps. Which means they can't officially raise the alarm and have lots of help stream through the elf gates; if they can handle the drow situation in Celwynvian themselves (and with the help of a few heroes like the PCs) they can then report to their superiors and the queen that the situation is resolved and the bulk of civilization (both elven and otherwise) get to go on their way never knowing what really happened in Celwynvian.
The Winter Council itself is not that big, but they've got power and lots of tradition backing them up, and one of their big goals is to keep the drow situation under wraps. By using their resources, they've been able to hide drow and keep them in the category of myth and legend for centuries. A big part of "Second Darkness" is the fall of the Winter Council and an opportunity to give the PCs the chance to expose this secret to the world.
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A big part of "Second Darkness" is the fall of the Winter Council and an opportunity to give the PCs the chance to expose this secret to the world.
I will be very keen in seeing how the rest of campaign world reacts to this 'news'.
Not just the general populance and the world's leaders, but also other 'power brokers' who will find ways in making the Drow possible allies, assets, or tools; in the very least, ensuring the Drow don't pose a threat to thier own schemes.
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Then, the players must to keep the secret meanwhile people are diying (like in riddleport). Ok, its a shame for the elves, but as we can see again in riddleport, drows can go through the elven siege. If the Drow are in riddleport....why not in other many cities along Golarion?
Its a terrible idea to keep that secret and a great irresponsability.
A big part of "Second Darkness" is the fall of the Winter Council and an opportunity to give the PCs the chance to expose this secret to the world.I will be very keen in seeing how the rest of campaign world reacts to this 'news'.
Not just the general populance and the world's leaders, but also other 'power brokers' who will find ways in making the Drow possible allies, assets, or tools; in the very least, ensuring the Drow don't pose a threat to thier own schemes.
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Creative Director
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A big part of "Second Darkness" is the fall of the Winter Council and an opportunity to give the PCs the chance to expose this secret to the world.I will be very keen in seeing how the rest of campaign world reacts to this 'news'.
Not just the general populance and the world's leaders, but also other 'power brokers' who will find ways in making the Drow possible allies, assets, or tools; in the very least, ensuring the Drow don't pose a threat to thier own schemes.
We talk a bit about the ramifications of this "news" at the end of the last adventure in Pathfinder #18, but as with all Pathfinder Adventure Paths, we aren't officially "advancing the clock." Xin-Shalast remains undiscovered, Korvosa remains stable and ruled by the king, and the drow remain a secret as long as each particular GM wants them to stay that way.
We MAY do something like a sequel adventure path in the future, or might eventually decide to advance the world calendar officially and take into account the events that occurred in the adventure paths, but for now we're leaving that to each GM.
So; beyond Pathfinder #18's "Continuing the Campaign" section, don't expect much more about the new "How Drow fit into Golarion" scene. For the most part, though, the drow won't change much of what's going on on the surface; they're isolated enough and far enough away to remain out of mind.
We'll still probably use them as villains now and then, though. They're just too cool to ignore forever!
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Cool things he is kind enough not to mind repeating to those of us who ask the same question in different ways in hopes of getting another answer.
Thanks James, and cheers. I was afraid that would be the official answer.
Now, as a little holiday wish, how about YOUR PERSONAL THOUGHTS on what would go down if word got out that the Drow had stepped out of legend and were a clear and present danger : )
My own thoughts on this matter would be akin to our own world's reaction if word got out that North Korea just found a little bit of weapons grade plutonium underneath thier rice fields.
Thanks as always for your response. Hope Santa feeds your xbox.