[Eldritch Knight] - Simple Prequisite Enhancement

[Majuba]

A short while back someone, I believe Hogarth, had an exquisitely simple idea for improving the prerequisites for Eldritch Knight.

Current Prerequisite:
- All Martial Weapons
- 3rd level Arcane spells

Suggested Prerequisites:
- All Martial Weapons
- 2nd level Arcane spells
- +4 Base Attack Bonus

This is a very minor change that adds a lot more versatility to the class.

Changes to Ways to qualify & optimization issues:

Spoiler:

Current ways to qualify:
- 1 level Fighter/Ranger/Paladin/Barbarian
& 5 levels Wizard, or 6 levels Sorcerer, or 7 levels Bard. - total 6,7, or 8.

"Lost" caster levels: 2
"Lost" BAB: 3 (except Bard only 2)

Suggested ways to qualify:
- 3 levels Fighter-type & 3 levels Wizard - total 6
- 2 levels Fighter-type & 4 levels Sorcerer - total 6
- 1 level Fighter-type & 4 levels Bard - total 5

"Lost" caster levels: 4, 3, or 2
"Lost" BAB: 2 (except Bard only 1)

OR - 1 level Fighter-type & 6 levels Sorc/Wizard - total 7

"Lost" caster levels: 2
"Lost" BAB: 3

As you can see, there isn't really any way to "break" this system, except perhaps as a Bard getting in a bit earlier (I don't see that as a threat to balance though).

I really feel this was a great idea, that is 95% backwards compatible, and increases options without threatening balance.

[JoelF847]

I don't see how increasing the number of caster levels is an improvement. If the concern is that sorcerors and bards can't qualify as quickly as wizards, why not change the requirements to simply be Caster Level 5 in an arcane class?

[Epic Meepo]

This is a very good suggestion. It's a small tweak that doesn't seem to break anything and doesn't seem to mess with backwards compatibility, yet it would add some interesting new options for aspiring eldritch knights. Nicely done.

[Majuba]

JoelF847 wrote:

I don't see how increasing the number of caster levels is an improvement. If the concern is that sorcerors and bards can't qualify as quickly as wizards, why not change the requirements to simply be Caster Level 5 in an arcane class?

... I'm confused. That's not the goal or effect of this change. Caster levels are possibly *reduced* by this option (at the PC's choice), not increased.

If you mean how Wizards are delayed one level in taking the class (if taking only a single level of Fighter-type), it's not that large a change really. They get +1 BAB and +1 to all saves at that 6th level + school power.

[JoelF847]

Majuba wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

I don't see how increasing the number of caster levels is an improvement. If the concern is that sorcerors and bards can't qualify as quickly as wizards, why not change the requirements to simply be Caster Level 5 in an arcane class?

... I'm confused. That's not the goal or effect of this change. Caster levels are possibly *reduced* by this option (at the PC's choice), not increased.

If you mean how Wizards are delayed one level in taking the class (if taking only a single level of Fighter-type), it's not that large a change really. They get +1 BAB and +1 to all saves at that 6th level + school power.

No, I'm the one who's confused, as I misread part of your original post, and missed that you can STILL take 1 fighter/6 wizard, etc. So...nevermind, and great tweak to provide more paths into the class.

[DivineAspect]

I like it alot

[Dennis da Ogre]

Majuba wrote:

A short while back someone, I believe Hogarth, had an exquisitely simple idea for improving the prerequisites for Eldritch Knight.

Current Prerequisite:
- All Martial Weapons
- 3rd level Arcane spells

Suggested Prerequisites:
- All Martial Weapons
- 2nd level Arcane spells
- +4 Base Attack Bonus

I like this idea. I wonder if something similar could be applied to Arcane Trickster.

Spoiler:

Suggested Prerequisites:

• A rogue talent
  
• 2nd level Arcane spells
  
• +4 Base Attack Bonus[/b]

You could enter arcane trickster with:
2 levels of rogue
6 levels of wizard or sorcerer (enter at 9th level)

3 levels of rogue
4 levels wizard or sorcerer (enter at 8th level)

2 levels of rogue
4 levels of bard (enter at 7th level)

Hmm... interesting results... I think a pretty reasonable mix and though it's slightly lower than the existing requirement I think it's comparable to the Eldritch Knight. I think the bard/ rogue synergy allowing the bard to enter earlier is pretty good. Players who want to enter the class earlier pay with a caster level (and gain a d6 sneak attack).

I think the idea translates well and think it's a great way to more important from my POV is it put all the arcane casters on the same footing with PrCs.

[Kaisoku]

Yeah, these are good ideas for the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster both.

And Bard entering early doesn't matter much, his spellcasting is about 3/4 caster already due to his BAB and other aspects. Getting more sooner won't break anything if he's already behind in spellcasting overall.

[Majuba]

I was just curious - was anyone reading against this change?

It would delay the Ftr/Wiz entering the class from Ftr1/Wiz5 to Ftr1/Wiz6, does that have any hidden penalties? (Wiz6 is a pretty nice level all around actually).

[minkscooter]

Majuba wrote:

I was just curious - was anyone reading against this change?

It would delay the Ftr/Wiz entering the class from Ftr1/Wiz5 to Ftr1/Wiz6, does that have any hidden penalties? (Wiz6 is a pretty nice level all around actually).

Since Ftr2/Wiz4 is also an option, I don't mind the slight delay for those who want to max their wizard preparation. It fixes a delay for sorcerers that has no faster alternative. A very nice change.

[cathat89]

Agreed. A smart, simple adjustment. Good job!