
Tholas |
I asked this question way back in Alpha:
Recently I decided that my Cleric will take Leadership as his 9th level feat. Reading the rules in the SRD I discovered lots of quirky stuff:
Cohort Level: The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of a character's Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself.
[...]
Cohorts earn XP as follows: The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP.Divide the cohort's level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort).
Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort's total.
Example:
[quote=]Leader is 10th level, after he gains 10000 Exp he reaches 11th level.
If his cohort is 8th level he gains 8/10*10000=8000 Exp when his leader reaches 11. lvl. This is exactly the amount of EXP he needs to reach 9th level.
If his cohort is 7th level he gains 7/10*10000=7000 Exp. This is exactly the amount of EXP he needs to reach 8th level.
...
If his cohort is 1st level he gains 1/10*10000=1000 Exp. This is exactly the amount of EXP he needs to reach 2nd level.
So a cohort that is, for whatever reason, not at his maximum level could never catch up.
Also, if a leader slips out of his cloak of charisma for any reason: Will his suddenly surplus followers know? Will his cohort loose a level he could not regain?
Basically the whole mechanism screams for an adjustment.
And got the following answer from Jason:
Hey there all,
Rest assured that Leadership is a strange little subsystem that I hope to address in an upcoming Alpha release. Stay tuned (but feel free to give ideas).
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Well, I did not see any game relevant changes in the wording of the feat, but with the new EXP progression(s) a cohort can now actually gain exp compared to his leader. That in itself is not a problem but the text regarding cohort level says:
Cohort Level: You can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of your Leadership score, you can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than yourself.
...
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed attain the next level.
This passage was obsolete in 3.5 but in Pathfinder a player character with a low leadership score can attract a low level cohort and after that the cohort would gain EXP until he is two levels below his leader.
As an example: A level 7 char with a leadership score of 6 and medium exp progression attracts a cohort. Two levels later said cohort would be at -2 lvl relative to the leader.Is that intentional? My GM looked at that passage and banned it as he banned enhancement(permanent or not) bonuses from items to charisma counting towards the leadership score.

Lord Starmight |

Leadership need more fodder to facilitate what I'll coin for now "conquest campaigns". Essentially when leadership is taken that should give the PC a small band of fodder/followers in addition (or even in place of) the cohort. The cohort could be something left to the role playing aspect of the game where a character like the leadership's current cohort would have to be recruited in game with things like diplomacy, gifts / trade in services, etc...
I'll use a couple examples to make my point.
For the additional fodder/followers the leadership score would determine the number maximum you could have at any given time, and any lost take a year to replace. That number though would be substantially increased from where it is right now though. So that at 7th level the NPC fighter/rogue would chose to become a leader using leadership of a ring of bandits. the NPC would recruit people to work under him, and together they would rob people somewhere... The 7th level NPC who just got leadership would get something like:
7-1 X (leadership score) = 1st level fodder
7-2 X (leadership score) = 2nd level fodder
7-4 X (leadership score) = 3rd level fodder
7-6 X (leadership score) = 4th level fodder
Essentially its enough fodder to warrant a group of bandits, as the leader rises in leadership score and level the problem her presents grows. For PCs this is also how they would rise to move from being responsible for a hamlet to a kingdom.
The cohort would be nixed from the feat itself. If players wanted cohort types of allies they would need to be recruited in character. If the campaign went from adventuring to role playing out a kingdom for a while and participating in large battles then the PCs could do that, and if they wanted to adventure they could recruit "cohorts" to tend to their affairs while they quest for the holy grail or whatever.

Maugan22 |

I strongly dislike cohorts as in my campaigns they invariably get relegated roles like clerics and bards (just supporting the party not doing anything interesting) and they take away from the main action of the PC heros. They make combats difficult to manage as there are more initiative values to track and make declarations for.
I would personally like to see leadership scrapped. If the party get a cohort let it be a story reward, not a feat. Same goes with followers. For conquest campaigns the DM can award followers based on the party's actions, this makes it feel special to get followers rather than some merely some feat granted ability open to anyone who didn't use Cha as a dump stat.
In my campaign cohorts are banned from leadership feat and the party every few adventures gets a guest NPC who is controlled by one of the players. This has worked out really well and I feel it builds the party's connections to existing Good aligned NPCs in the campaign world as they fight side by side rather than merely having henchmen.

Patrick Baldwin |
Uhm, any input besides scrapping or changing the feat?
Well, what I'm usually looking for from Leadership is not a bunch
of fodder, or a healbot cleric or buffbot bard. I'm usually init for the monster- at higher levels, Leadership is a relatively
easy way to get a cool monstrous companion or mount. For example,
an evil cleric of Winter I built had Leadership to get his
Winter Wolf mount. A good ranger had a blink dog as his hunting
dog. That sort of thing.

Swordslinger |
Well, what I'm usually looking for from Leadership is not a bunch
of fodder, or a healbot cleric or buffbot bard. I'm usually in
it for the monster- at higher levels, Leadership is a relatively
easy way to get a cool monstrous companion or mount. For example,
an evil cleric of Winter I built had Leadership to get his
Winter Wolf mount. A good ranger had a blink dog as his hunting
dog. That sort of thing.
Yeah really I think that leadership should probably just be changed to "Extraordinary companion", with a list of stuff you can get.
Having the feat for a free new NPC companion has always been a bad idea IMO.